Does God love all mankind and does He wish to save everyone

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Mar 23, 2016
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#41
I believe your thinking is just like those Israel brethren who have a zeal of God, which is evidence that they are children of God, but not according to knowledge. They are holding on to the old law of works and are going about trying to establish their own righteousness by their good works. They do not have a solid understanding of the law of grace. Paul, in the rest of chapter 10 instructs them what they can do to be saved ( delivered ) from that lack of knowledge by being taught eternal deliverance, ( salvation ) by the grace of God and not by their works.
Well, according to you, I can only do what I need "to be saved ( delivered )" if I am one of those "elect" you so love to throw in the face of the true believer.

I believe your thinking is steeped in calvinism and not in the truth of God's Word.
 
Mar 23, 2016
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#42
Pardon my interruption, but I would like to inject my understanding on some of your questions. What is God's criteria for saving some? Psalms 53:2-3, God looked down from heaven upon the children of men; to see if there were any that did understand, that did seek God. Every one of them is gone back, they are altogether become filthy, there is none that doeth good, no not one. God did not have to look down, because, by his foreknowledge, before he formed the world, he knew that the children of men would do nothing that would be good, that is why he choose some so that he would have a people to praise him, Psalms 117:1-2, and predetermined them to be conformed to the image of his Son and instructed his Son to pay the price for those that he had choosen to be adopted as his sons by his sacrifice for their sins to God (not to man ) for God's acceptance ( not for man's acceptance ). I think I just gave you the definition of predestination. How does the natural man who does not have the ability to choose spiritual things, get the ability? Eph 2:5, Even when the natural man was spiritually dead in sins, God quickened ( made spiritually alive ) him together with Christ, (by grace are ye saved). I's as simple as that! The natural did not have to do anything to be saved. All that was needed was for him to have been included in God's choice of his elect.
You neglect the fact that God has placed within each and every person born from time of Adam to this day, and beyond this day, that which is needed to not reject Him. He gave mankind a conscience so they can "hear" when He speaks to them and so they can respond when He "draws" them.

Notice in your Psalm 52 that it is the fool who says there is no God who is being referred to in vss 2-3. David is writing about the fool who does not believe in God. Those who restrain/suppress the truth are without excuse.
 
Mar 23, 2016
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#43
God and Christ has all power and does accomplishes all his will. Dan 4:35, All the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou? If it had been God's will to save all mankind, as you say, he would have done it, because he accomplishes "ALL" his will, and man can not stop him.
I responded to your Dan 4:35 misinterpretation in the "God does not love all mankind" thread:

God rules over the kingdoms of the earth and those who rule are not given power without God's oversight. Nebuchadnezzer is not addressing the issue of salvation in Dan 4:35.

You misconstrue the meaning of Dan 4:35 when you associate the verse with salvation.

Daniel 4:25 That they shall drive thee from men, and thy dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field, and they shall make thee to eat grass as oxen, and they shall wet thee with the dew of heaven, and seven times shall pass over thee, till thou know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will.


Can you please answer why it does not bother you that Thayer's has been manipulated to support a rendering never intended by Thayer or God?

Your continued and obstinate ignoring of this issue will not make it go away. You have been made aware that there has been alteration and you continue to quote the later version without acknowledging and/or disclosing that the later version has been modified to support a certain doctrine.





ForestGreenCook said:
God is not mourning because he can not save all mankind.
You presume much when you make statements such as this.




ForestGreenCook said:
Do you see how weak you make God, and how you limit his power?
The one who limits God's power is the one who does not believe God is able to save all mankind and who believes the sacrifice of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is insufficient.

 

Slayer

Active member
Jul 23, 2018
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#44
Well you just told us the major issue. You have God, who claims he is a God who loves unconditionally (agape) yet does not allow all these people an opportunity to be saved, even though in reality, they are no worse than the ones that for whatever reason he chose to save, ie,

You can not go to the world. to the heavenly creation (angels fallen or not) or fight the lie of satan, and claim to be a God who loves unconditionally. Yet pics and chooses who he will save and who he will not. yet at the same time, does not even give these who will not be saved the opportunity to be saved

No one will believe you, and if you plan on using that to prevent any future rebellion. You will have failed. because there will always be a question of your character, are you truly a loving God or not?

so my point stands,
Yes we believe God loves His elect unconditionally. And He doesn't save those whom He chose to leave in their sins. And yes we are no better than those whom He left in their sin.

I used to have a problem with Gods sovereignty and His right to choose to save some and not others, but God showed me that it's none of my business to judge the things He does. I came to believe that Gods ways are as high as the heavens are above mine, so I realized how ludicrous it was to judge God.

I was trying to make God adhere to my expectation and standards, I didn't want to believe in a different God to the one I created in my own mind. I was satisfied with that one and I didn't want to replace him with the true God, because I thought the true God was unfair and harsh.

It wasn't until I allowed God to be God and to get off His throne, that I found peace and acceptance of all things exactly as they are. We believe God has a good purpose in everything He does, even if it appears to be evil in our eyes. I can't give this truth to anyone, only God can liberate a person from slavery to false beliefs.

I can only share what God has revealed to me, but I can't convince anyone to agree because God only reveals this to people at His predetermined and appointed time.

I trust and love God in everything He does, I pray for the conversion of my family members but I must be prepared for the worst case scenario. They may all end up in the lake of fire and I must still love god with everything I have, He loves me unconditionally so I must trust and love Him unconditionally.
 

Slayer

Active member
Jul 23, 2018
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#45
It appears to me that you do not believe God is almighty and you believe the sacrifice of His Only Begotten Son, our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, was insufficient to save all mankind.

You can accept that the precious blood of Jesus was insufficient to cover all, but you cannot accept that God wants all mankind to be saved and come unto the knowledge of the truth and He allows mankind to reject Him? Seriously?





Believing God's desire is that all men be saved and come unto the knowledge of the truth is not "our own ideas". It is written straight in Scripture. You choose to reject that truth.





We've gone over this before. You want me to believe God does not give them what they need to overcome the sin, tells them they are without excuse for not overcoming, and then condemns them to the lake of fire for their inability to overcome.

You also want me to believe the "elect" can (and does) sin to their heart's content even though they have been given what they need to overcome the sin. But, by golly, they're "elect" so God just overlooks the sin.





All – believer and unbeliever alike – choose to sin. The difference between the believer and the unbeliever is that the believer has not restrained the truth concerning the Gospel. That truth hit his or her heart and God brings increase.

The unbeliever restrains the truth concerning the Gospel, does not afford him/herself of what God has bestowed upon all mankind, and ends up in the lake of fire because of his/her rejection of God's unspeakable gift.
Of' course I believe Christs blood was enough to cover all mankind, but not all mankind was called or chosen. "Many are called, but few are chosen" that doesn't say all are called.

If God wanted to save all mankind He could have easily done it, but He doesn't want to and He has every right to chose and reject whom He pleases.

We are all Calvinists in my Church, and many call Arminians (the free choice people) God haters. I don't go that far, because I was one myself until somebody showed me the mountains of evidence in scripture showing that predestination and election are sound Biblical truth.
 
Mar 23, 2016
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#46
Of' course I believe Christs blood was enough to cover all mankind, but not all mankind was called or chosen. "Many are called, but few are chosen" that doesn't say all are called.
I do not believe the parable fits your understanding because in the parable the ones who are "chosen" are those who did not reject the invitation of king.

Matthew 22:


5 But they made light of it (the king's invitation)
, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise:

6 And the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them.

...

9 Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.



So we see the "few that are chosen" are those who did not reject the king's invitation to attend the marriage of his son.




Slayer said:
If God wanted to save all mankind He could have easily done it, but He doesn't want to and He has every right to chose and reject whom He pleases.
You go beyond Scripture when you state "He doesn't want to" save all mankind when we have verses [ plural ] in Scripture which indicate the opposite of your statement.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
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#47
It appears to me that you do not believe God is almighty and you believe the sacrifice of His Only Begotten Son, our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, was insufficient to save all mankind.

You can accept that the precious blood of Jesus was insufficient to cover all, but you cannot accept that God wants all mankind to be saved and come unto the knowledge of the truth and He allows mankind to reject Him? Seriously?





Believing God's desire is that all men be saved and come unto the knowledge of the truth is not "our own ideas". It is written straight in Scripture. You choose to reject that truth.





We've gone over this before. You want me to believe God does not give them what they need to overcome the sin, tells them they are without excuse for not overcoming, and then condemns them to the lake of fire for their inability to overcome. You did not give a book, chapter and verse reference, but I think you made reference to Romans the 10th chapter where Paul is talking about some people of Israel, who had a zeal of God

You also want me to believe the "elect" can (and does) sin to their heart's content even though they have been given what they need to overcome the sin. But, by golly, they're "elect" so God just overlooks the sin.





All – believer and unbeliever alike – choose to sin. The difference between the believer and the unbeliever is that the believer has not restrained the truth concerning the Gospel. That truth hit his or her heart and God brings increase.

The unbeliever restrains the truth concerning the Gospel, does not afford him/herself of what God has bestowed upon all mankind, and ends up in the lake of fire because of his/her rejection of God's unspeakable gift.
God gives a person, when he quickens ( gives life ) him, in Eph 2:5, gives him a new heart, Ezk 36:26, A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you, and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. Man does not have a thing to do with his spiritual birth, just as he does not have anything to do with his natural birth. God only gives a spiritual life to those that he choose before the foundation of the world, Eph 1. When I was a child, we lived in the country next to some close neighbors. We would get together and do some mischievous stuff and my father would chasten me, but he would not chasten my neighbor friends. Our heavenly Father does it the same way, he only chastens his own children. I think you are trying to reference Romans the 10th chapter where Paul is talking about some people of Israel that had a zeal of God but not according to knowledge and were going about trying to establish their righteousness by the works of the old law. Paul continues in the rest of the chapter telling them how they could be saved ( delivered ) from a lack of knowledge by following his teaching. We have many on this forum who are children of God, having a zeal of God, and are going about trying to establish their own righteousness by following the old law of works, claiming that their good works will save them eternally. Where most of God's children make their mistake, in trying to figure out the truth of Christ's doctrine , is that they are applying most of the salvation scriptures to eternal salvation, when they are really talking about timely deliverance.. If you keep in consideration how the natural man thinks, recorded in 1 Cor 2:14, it is simple to understand the scriptures that are talking about children of God.
 

Slayer

Active member
Jul 23, 2018
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#48
I do not believe the parable fits your understanding because in the parable the ones who are "chosen" are those who did not reject the invitation of king.

Matthew 22:

5 But they made light of it (the king's invitation), and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise:

6 And the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them.

...

9 Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.


So we see the "few that are chosen" are those who did not reject the king's invitation to attend the marriage of his son.





You go beyond Scripture when you state "He doesn't want to" save all mankind when we have verses [ plural ] in Scripture which indicate the opposite of your statement.
I simply said He doesn't want to because that's the only logical conclusion, if God is almighty as he claims to be and we believe Him to be.
You need to answer why God failed to save all of those whom He called. If He is almighty, then He can do anything and the fact that He didn't save some indicates that He didn't want to. There's no other logical explanation, except predestination and election.
 

shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
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#49
reneweddaybyday said:
You go beyond Scripture when you state "He doesn't want to" save all mankind when we have verses [ plural ] in Scripture which indicate the opposite of your statement.
I simply said He doesn't want to because that's the only logical conclusion, if God is almighty as he claims to be and we believe Him to be.
How is that the only logical conclusion when the Bible clearly states that God wants all men to be saved (1 Tim 2:4), and that He is not willing that any should perish (2 Pet 3:9), and that He has no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but wants the wicked to turn from their evil ways so they might live (Eze 33:11)?

You need to answer why God failed to save all of those whom He called. If He is almighty, then He can do anything and the fact that He didn't save some indicates that He didn't want to. There's no other logical explanation, except predestination and election.
You (again) forget that God gave us free will. People can say "no" to God and the gospel of Christ, and when they do, God cannot save them.
 

Slayer

Active member
Jul 23, 2018
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#50
How is that the only logical conclusion when the Bible clearly states that God wants all men to be saved (1 Tim 2:4), and that He is not willing that any should perish (2 Pet 3:9), and that He has no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but wants the wicked to turn from their evil ways so they might live (Eze 33:11)?


You (again) forget that God gave us free will. People can say "no" to God and the gospel of Christ, and when they do, God cannot save them.
You push me into a corner where I have to chose between God being a weak impotent God who can't get what he wants or a God who is almighty and gets what He wants every single time. I choose to believe in the later, your welcome to worship the loser god who failed to save those he wanted to save.
 

shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
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#51
You push me into a corner where I have to chose between God being a weak impotent God who can't get what he wants or a God who is almighty and gets what He wants every single time. I choose to believe in the later
It's your choice.

your welcome to worship the loser god who failed to save those he wanted to save.
You (again) forget that God gave us free will, and He honors our choices. God works with His creation, He is not a puppet master.

And for the record, insulting the Creator of the universe by calling Him a loser is not wise.
 

Dooms

Junior Member
Feb 8, 2018
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#52
From my understanding, as long as a man lives in this world, there is a way to salvation for him. No matter what you have done, or what has been done to you, a repentant heart will be heard.

It is the calling of the repentant to bring the unrepentant hearts to Jesus. There are no people we should turn our backs on.
 
Mar 23, 2016
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#53
God gives a person, when he quickens ( gives life ) him, in Eph 2:5, gives him a new heart, Ezk 36:26, A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you, and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. Man does not have a thing to do with his spiritual birth, just as he does not have anything to do with his natural birth. God only gives a spiritual life to those that he choose before the foundation of the world, Eph 1. When I was a child, we lived in the country next to some close neighbors. We would get together and do some mischievous stuff and my father would chasten me, but he would not chasten my neighbor friends. Our heavenly Father does it the same way, he only chastens his own children. I think you are trying to reference Romans the 10th chapter where Paul is talking about some people of Israel that had a zeal of God but not according to knowledge and were going about trying to establish their righteousness by the works of the old law. Paul continues in the rest of the chapter telling them how they could be saved ( delivered ) from a lack of knowledge by following his teaching. We have many on this forum who are children of God, having a zeal of God, and are going about trying to establish their own righteousness by following the old law of works, claiming that their good works will save them eternally. Where most of God's children make their mistake, in trying to figure out the truth of Christ's doctrine , is that they are applying most of the salvation scriptures to eternal salvation, when they are really talking about timely deliverance.. If you keep in consideration how the natural man thinks, recorded in 1 Cor 2:14, it is simple to understand the scriptures that are talking about children of God.
Rather than respond to a post directed to Slayer (which he and I have moved beyond), how about you deal with the three posts I submitted (#41, #42, #43) in response to your posts (#28, #36, #37).
 
Mar 23, 2016
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#54
I simply said He doesn't want to because that's the only logical conclusion, if God is almighty as he claims to be and we believe Him to be.
No that is not the "only logical conclusion".


God can still be "almighty as he claims to be and we believe Him to be" in spite of the fact that some reject Him when they suppress the truth in unrighteousness as shown in Rom 1.




Slayer said:
You need to answer why God failed to save all of those whom He called.
Look at the parable in Matthew 22 which you used to try to bolster your position.


In the parable, the king invited guests to the wedding of his son. He sent his servants to personally dellver the invitation to the marriage and the invitees made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise (Matt 22:5). Some of the invitees even went so far as to entreat the king's servants spitefully and kill them (Matt 22:6).

The king then sent his servants out to the highways and byways to gather together as many guests as they could find (Matt 22:10). The king even provided the wedding clothes for these guests and when he came across one of the guests who was not clothed with the wedding garments the king provided, he was escorted out of the marriage ceremony.

This scenario is exactly what I (and others) have been telling you. God entreats / mankind rejects. This does not equal God having "failed to save all of those whom He called". He calls ALL. Some of the ALL refuse the invitation.




Slayer said:
If He is almighty, then He can do anything and the fact that He didn't save some indicates that He didn't want to.
You are incorrect in your conclusion. The fact that He didn't save some indicates that some rejected Him and refused to be saved.





Slayer said:
There's no other logical explanation, except predestination and election.
There is another logical explanation and you are suppressing its truth, even though it has been laid out for you.
 

EmilyFoster

Well-known member
Jul 10, 2018
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#55
II Peter 3:9: God is not willing that any should perish, but desires all to come to repentance.

John 3:16: For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
 

Slayer

Active member
Jul 23, 2018
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#56
It's your choice.


You (again) forget that God gave us free will, and He honors our choices. God works with His creation, He is not a puppet master.

And for the record, insulting the Creator of the universe by calling Him a loser is not wise.
I didn't mean to insult the creator of the universe, I just wanted to point out that the God I believe in is a puppet master if you will. He's much more than a puppet master, He's the master of everything including salvation. That's what we believe, we refuse to believe in a god who doesn't get what he wants.

It's a self defeating argument, to say you believe in a God who can do anything but then He failed miserably when it came to saving all those who He wanted to save. He only managed to save a smallish number, I was referring to that god and not the God we read about in the Bible who is almighty and sovereign over all things.

We don't believe that God left salvation in the hands of fallen sinful men, we believe He does the saving from start to finish. We just go along for the ride.
 

Slayer

Active member
Jul 23, 2018
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#57
II Peter 3:9: God is not willing that any should perish, but desires all to come to repentance.

John 3:16: For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
The only way that those two verses can be understood and for God to keep His integrity is if "any" in the first verse refers to "any of the elect" and in the second verse the "whosoever" is calling the elect to respond.

If we take them any other way, it immediately makes God a great big failure. He tried to save many but failed and ended up only saving a few. It doesn't sound like an almighty God, that sounds like a weak god who has many unfulfilled wishes and desires.
 

Dan58

Senior Member
Nov 13, 2013
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#58
If we take them any other way, it immediately makes God a great big failure. He tried to save many but failed and ended up only saving a few. It doesn't sound like an almighty God, that sounds like a weak god who has many unfulfilled wishes and desires.
God did what was necessary to save everyone, so in that sense, yes its God's desire that everyone comes to repentance. But its also made clear that God loves those who love Him; "I love them that love me" (Proverbs 8:17).
God succeeded, but love is not something He forces. Any failure is on the part of those who choose to reject Him. Sometimes when a student flunks a test, it not the teachers fault, but the result of an unattended student who doesn't care.. jmo
 
Jul 26, 2018
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#59
Universalists believe all people will be saved. They often complain against the contrary teaching that people go to hell by posing questions such as:
  • "Do you really believe that God is going to lose most of mankind in hell and that only a few are going to be saved?"
  • "If most go to hell, doesn't that mean that Satan wins since God only gets a few compared to the majority who are lost?"
Of course, these kinds of questions are the wrong ones to ask. What they are doing is using emotionalism to sway someone's beliefs. What they should be asking are questions like these:
  • "What does the Bible teach about damnation?"
  • "Does the Bible tell us if most will be lost or saved?"
  • "Does it tell us that all will be saved?

  • "Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide, and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and many are those who enter by it. 14"For the gate is small, and the way is narrow that leads to life, and few are those who find it," (Matt. 7:13-14).
  • "For many are called, but few are chosen," (Matt. 22:14).

  • "And He was passing through from one city and village to another, teaching, and proceeding on His way to Jerusalem. 23And someone said to Him, "Lord, are there just a few who are being saved?"

  • And He said to them, 24"Strive to enter by the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able. 25"Once the head of the house gets up and shuts the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock on the door, saying, ‘Lord, open up to us!’ then He will answer and say to you, ‘I do not know where you are from.’ 26"Then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets’; 27and He will say, ‘I tell you, I do not know where you are from; depart from Me, all you evildoers,'" (Luke 13:22-27).

  • "And Isaiah cries out concerning Israel, "Though the number of the sons of Israel be as the sand of the sea, it is the remnant that will be saved; 28for the Lord will execute His word upon the earth, thoroughly and quickly," (Rom. 9:27)
So how can anyone say God has offered salvation to everyone, the above scriptures make it clear that God has chosen to save some and not all mankind as many believe. What about the Reprobate.

Romans 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

2 Corinthians 13:6 But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates.

2 Corinthians 13:7 Now I pray to God that ye do no evil; not that we should appear approved, but that ye should do that which is honest, though we be as reprobates.

2 Timothy 3:8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.

Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

Do the reprobate choose to be reprobate or has God given them over to their sin nature to continuously sin and deprive themselves of receiving the salvation which Jesus purchased on the cross. It sounds like God didn't give them the gift of faith, so they can't respond by believing the Gospel.
Universalists believe all people will be saved. They often complain against the contrary teaching that people go to hell by posing questions such as:
  • "Do you really believe that God is going to lose most of mankind in hell and that only a few are going to be saved?"
  • "If most go to hell, doesn't that mean that Satan wins since God only gets a few compared to the majority who are lost?"
Of course, these kinds of questions are the wrong ones to ask. What they are doing is using emotionalism to sway someone's beliefs. What they should be asking are questions like these:
  • "What does the Bible teach about damnation?"
  • "Does the Bible tell us if most will be lost or saved?"
  • "Does it tell us that all will be saved?

  • "Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide, and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and many are those who enter by it. 14"For the gate is small, and the way is narrow that leads to life, and few are those who find it," (Matt. 7:13-14).
  • "For many are called, but few are chosen," (Matt. 22:14).

  • "And He was passing through from one city and village to another, teaching, and proceeding on His way to Jerusalem. 23And someone said to Him, "Lord, are there just a few who are being saved?"

  • And He said to them, 24"Strive to enter by the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able. 25"Once the head of the house gets up and shuts the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock on the door, saying, ‘Lord, open up to us!’ then He will answer and say to you, ‘I do not know where you are from.’ 26"Then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets’; 27and He will say, ‘I tell you, I do not know where you are from; depart from Me, all you evildoers,'" (Luke 13:22-27).

  • "And Isaiah cries out concerning Israel, "Though the number of the sons of Israel be as the sand of the sea, it is the remnant that will be saved; 28for the Lord will execute His word upon the earth, thoroughly and quickly," (Rom. 9:27)
So how can anyone say God has offered salvation to everyone, the above scriptures make it clear that God has chosen to save some and not all mankind as many believe. What about the Reprobate.

Romans 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

2 Corinthians 13:6 But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates.

2 Corinthians 13:7 Now I pray to God that ye do no evil; not that we should appear approved, but that ye should do that which is honest, though we be as reprobates.

2 Timothy 3:8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.

Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

Do the reprobate choose to be reprobate or has God given them over to their sin nature to continuously sin and deprive themselves of receiving the salvation which Jesus purchased on the cross. It sounds like God didn't give them the gift of faith, so they can't respond by believing the Gospel.
God offered everyone salvation when he sacrificed his son to be nailed to the cross. That is how I as a Christian can say he has offered it but I also know HE gave us freedom to choose and not everyone will.

However; the Bible tells us that every knee shall bow and tongue confess so before judgement they will know who He is.
 
Mar 23, 2016
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I didn't mean to insult the creator of the universe, I just wanted to point out that the God I believe in is a puppet master if you will. He's much more than a puppet master, He's the master of everything including salvation. That's what we believe, we refuse to believe in a god who doesn't get what he wants.
What did God want when He told Adam not to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil?

If God did not want Adam to eat, then why did Adam eat?

If God did want Adam to eat, then why did God tell him not to eat?




Slayer said:
t's a self defeating argument, to say you believe in a God who can do anything but then He failed miserably when it came to saving all those who He wanted to save. He only managed to save a smallish number, I was referring to that god and not the God we read about in the Bible who is almighty and sovereign over all things.
Since God is sovereign over all things and does not want you to sin, why do you sin?