Does God love all mankind and does He wish to save everyone

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
U

UnderGrace

Guest
You will never get your pieces of the puzzle to fit together to see the completed beautiful picture.
Well the pieces may fit together but the picture is anything but beautiful.:(
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
10,887
2,113
113
"39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have." Luke 24:39
 

Slayer

Active member
Jul 23, 2018
724
122
43
I understand, as for me I'm not worthy of sainthood I'm not good only God is good.
No Saint is worthy of Sainthood, we didn't earn that title we received it as a gift from God. We were all dead in our sins and trespasses when God quickened us to life and regenerated us, we received the Holy Spirit who indwells us and guides our path.

All true believers are Saints, God works through us so the good works we do are done by Him through us. Christ said, we lose our life and we no longer live to do our will but the will of God. So it's perfectly normal not to feel worthy of Sainthood, we still live in this corrupt body and we will continue to battle against the flesh until we die.

Before we were converted, we were slaves to sin and now we are slaves to Christ which is actually true freedom.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
113
So did you just wake up one day and decide that you were elect? Did you actually have a conversion experience or simply arrive at an intellectual conclusion that you are elect and thereby saved?

Did you ever acknowledge your sin before the Lord and ask Him to for give you for your sin?

For the cause of Christ
Roger
My, MY, Roger, You sure have your hands full in trying to eternally save us, who are lost and going to hell! Don't you? Because of your lack of knowledge, you don't know that you have nothing to do with eternally saving people.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
My, MY, Roger, You sure have your hands full in trying to eternally save us, who are lost and going to hell! Don't you? Because of your lack of knowledge, you don't know that you have nothing to do with eternally saving people.
I have a command to witness for Christ. I do not save anyone but I am commanded to tell everyone. Tell then the truth of a loving Savior Who died for their sins.

1Jo 4:10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

You poor man you swallow the camel. You cannot humble yourself but elevate yourself above your fellow man because you have deemed yourself elect.

Mt 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Still time for you to repent and receive Christ as your Savior. You become elect and predestined in Christ not predestined and elect to be in Christ.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
113
I have a command to witness for Christ. I do not save anyone but I am commanded to tell everyone. Tell then the truth of a loving Savior Who died for their sins.

1Jo 4:10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

You poor man you swallow the camel. You cannot humble yourself but elevate yourself above your fellow man because you have deemed yourself elect.

Mt 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Still time for you to repent and receive Christ as your Savior. You become elect and predestined in Christ not predestined and elect to be in Christ.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Matt 5:20, Kingdom of heaven in this verse has reference to Christ's church, which he is King of. No wonder you have so many going to hell.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
400
83
God from the very begining gave people the opportunity to have their sins forgiven with a blood sacrifice. The preferred sacrifice was an unblemished lamb. Cain tried vegetables and was rejected and killed Abel out of jealously. Too many went astray so God did a reset with Noah. People still rejected God so he set aside the children of Israel to show the way. Still had problems and the northern 10 tribes were dispersed. That left the southern tribes of Judah and Benjamin with a portion of the Levites known down through history as Jews. They are unique in history as the only group kicked out of their land and kept their identity. Through all this time up to Jesus the devout adherents to God practiced blood sacrifices yearly to remove their sins. Jesus (God incarnate) allowed himself to be the unblemished Lamb of God to die on the cross for our sins. All we now have to do is be saved by grace through faith in Jesus. Those who reject this grace will pay a horrific penalty. God knows the end from the begining. He knew the cross was there when he created the heavens and earth but He did it anyway.

All of these actions by God demonstrates his love for mankind. He gave us the opportunity to have our sins removed from us so we would be acceptable to Him.
 

Slayer

Active member
Jul 23, 2018
724
122
43
God from the very begining gave people the opportunity to have their sins forgiven with a blood sacrifice. The preferred sacrifice was an unblemished lamb. Cain tried vegetables and was rejected and killed Abel out of jealously. Too many went astray so God did a reset with Noah. People still rejected God so he set aside the children of Israel to show the way. Still had problems and the northern 10 tribes were dispersed. That left the southern tribes of Judah and Benjamin with a portion of the Levites known down through history as Jews. They are unique in history as the only group kicked out of their land and kept their identity. Through all this time up to Jesus the devout adherents to God practiced blood sacrifices yearly to remove their sins. Jesus (God incarnate) allowed himself to be the unblemished Lamb of God to die on the cross for our sins. All we now have to do is be saved by grace through faith in Jesus. Those who reject this grace will pay a horrific penalty. God knows the end from the begining. He knew the cross was there when he created the heavens and earth but He did it anyway.

All of these actions by God demonstrates his love for mankind. He gave us the opportunity to have our sins removed from us so we would be acceptable to Him.
The Bible tells us that God gave us more than just the opportunity to be saved. It tells us that He did everything to bring about our salvation, the Bible says we were dead in our sins and trespasses and as such we would never choose to give our lives to God.

So God had to draw us to Himself and give us the gift of faith in His Son, this is why those God didn't choose will never choose Him in a million years. So election and predestination are true, there are around 40 verses of scripture which speak about this truth.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,774
113
So election and predestination are true, there are around 40 verses of scripture which speak about this truth.
Election and predestination have a very specific application in Scripture. Those terms are applied to those who are already children of God, but must be transformed into the likeness of Christ. See 1 John 3:1-3.

Christ desires to present unto Himself a perfect Bride (without spot or blemish), therefore He will perfect and glorify the saints before the Marriage of the Lamb at the Resurrection/Rapture. Which means that every sinner who is genuinely saved has been elected to be perfected in Christ, and this is what God has predetermined, predestinated, and foreordained. This is also why good works have been foreordained for those who are saved (Eph 2:10).

However, the offer of salvation is to WHOSOVER WILL believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved, and God is no respecter of persons.

JOHN 3
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. (Rev 22:17)
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
However, the offer of salvation is to WHOSOVER WILL believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved, and God is no respecter of persons.

JOHN 3
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. (Rev 22:17)
Better translation is "everyone who believes", but anyway, the problem is in the background of it - how/why somebody believes.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,774
113
Better translation is "everyone who believes", but anyway, the problem is in the background of it - how/why somebody believes.
One can say everyone who believes, or anyone and everyone who believes, or whosoever believes. It simply means that all people are invited to believe regardless of anything else. As to the how and why, Jesus already provided us with the answer.

JOHN 3
19
And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
One can say everyone who believes, or anyone and everyone who believes, or whosoever believes. It simply means that all people are invited to believe regardless of anything else.
To say "everybody who has an oxygen bomb can dive here" does not simply mean that all have this equipment.

Similarly, to say "everybody who believes" does not mean that all people are able to believe or that all people are able to produce faith in themselves.

These verses are just conditional, these verses say nothing about how to believe or why some people believe and some do not.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,774
113
Similarly, to say "everybody who believes" does not mean that all people are able to believe or are able to produce faith in themselves.
And that is why God has given the Gospel and the Holy Spirit so that men will be brought to repentance and faith. The Gospel is the power of God unto salvation to everyone who believes (Rom 1:16). Why do Christians forget these essential truths? Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God (which is the Gospel) (Rom 10:17). Peter says that we are born again through the Word of God which is the Gospel (1 Pet 1:23-25).
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
And that is why God has given the Gospel and the Holy Spirit so that men will be brought to repentance and faith. The Gospel is the power of God unto salvation to everyone who believes (Rom 1:16). Why do Christians forget these essential truths? Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God (which is the Gospel) (Rom 10:17). Peter says that we are born again through the Word of God which is the Gospel (1 Pet 1:23-25).
You would have a very hard time to prove that God is giving Gospel and the Holy Spirit effectivelly to all people and thus that God is making the same conditions for all people to believe.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
113
And that is why God has given the Gospel and the Holy Spirit so that men will be brought to repentance and faith. The Gospel is the power of God unto salvation to everyone who believes (Rom 1:16). Why do Christians forget these essential truths? Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God (which is the Gospel) (Rom 10:17). Peter says that we are born again through the Word of God which is the Gospel (1 Pet 1:23-25).
Only the people who are already born of the Spirit can discern spiritual things, such as believing, accepting, repenting etc. The natural man, as described in 1 Cor 2:14 cannot discern spiritual things until he is born of the Spirit. Eph 2:5 tells us how the natural man is born of the Spirit, which does not involve believing, repenting, accepting etc.
 

Slayer

Active member
Jul 23, 2018
724
122
43
Election and predestination have a very specific application in Scripture. Those terms are applied to those who are already children of God, but must be transformed into the likeness of Christ. See 1 John 3:1-3.

Christ desires to present unto Himself a perfect Bride (without spot or blemish), therefore He will perfect and glorify the saints before the Marriage of the Lamb at the Resurrection/Rapture. Which means that every sinner who is genuinely saved has been elected to be perfected in Christ, and this is what God has predetermined, predestinated, and foreordained. This is also why good works have been foreordained for those who are saved (Eph 2:10).

However, the offer of salvation is to WHOSOVER WILL believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved, and God is no respecter of persons.

JOHN 3
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. (Rev 22:17)
All of the above verses are speaking about the elect of God, they all suggest that believers have a special gift which enables them to believe. No amount of evidence will persuade those who were not born with the gift of belief, they will all go to the grave denying Christ.

Christ said that, they will not believe even if One were to rise from the dead. So no amount of evidence will persuade one who is predestined not to believe, likewise nothing will stop one who is predestined to believe from believing. No threats of death of persecution can make them abandon their faith.

Below are just some of those scriptures which prove that predestination is a true Biblical doctrine.

How blessed is the one whom You choose and bring near to You
To dwell in Your courts.
We will be satisfied with the goodness of Your house,
Your holy temple.
Ps 65:4
The Lord has made everything for its own purpose,
Even the wicked for the day of evil.
Prov 16:4
And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.
Mt 24:31
now, will not God bring about justice for His elect who cry to Him day and night, and will He delay long over them?
Luke 18:7
So that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord,
And all the Gentiles who are called by My name,’
Says the Lord, who makes these things known from long ago.
Acts 15:17-18
And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.
Romans 8:28- 30
Who will bring a charge against God’s elect? God is the one who justifies;
Rom 8:33
for though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that God’s purpose according to His choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls,
Romans 9:11
For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy.
Romans 9:15-16 (the whole chapter)
God has not rejected His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel?
Rom 11:2
In the same way then, there has also come to be at the present time a remnant according to God’s gracious choice. But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace. What then? What Israel is seeking, it has not obtained, but those who were chosen obtained it, and the rest were hardened;
Romans 11:5-7
but we speak God’s wisdom in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God predestined before the ages to our glory;
1 Cor 2:7
He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,…
also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will,
Ephesians 1:5,11
knowing, brethren beloved by God, His choice of you;
1 Thes 1:4
But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.
2 Thes 2:13
Paul, a bond-servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, for the faith of those chosen of God and the knowledge of the truth which is according to godliness,
Titus 1:1
according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure.
1 Peter 1:2
All who dwell on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain.
Rev 13:8
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,774
113
You would have a very hard time to prove that God is giving Gospel and the Holy Spirit effectivelly to all people and thus that God is making the same conditions for all people to believe.
That is TOTAL NONSENSE and here's why:

MATTHEW 28
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.


MARK 16
15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.


LUKE 24
46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

48 And ye are witnesses of these things.

49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.


ACTS 1
7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.


What we have above is ALL THE WORLD, ALL NATIONS, AND EVERY CREATURE (NO EXCEPTIONS).

NOW IN LIGHT OF ALL THESE SCRIPTURES WHO CAN HONESTLY SAY THAT GOD DOES NOT DESIRE THE SALVATION OF ALL HUMANITY? WHICH MEANS THAT SATAN WANTS PEOPLE TO BELIEVE THE OPPOSITE.
 
Feb 28, 2016
11,311
2,974
113
ACTS 17:26.
And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

34.
Howbeit certain men clave unto him, and believed: among the which was Dionysius the Areopagite, and a woman named Damaris, and others with them.

ACTS 10:41.
Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before of God, even to us, who did eat and drink with Him
after He rose from the dead.

ACTS 22:14.
And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know His will, and see that Just One,
and should hear the voice of His mouth.

ISA. 42:1.
Behold My servant, whom I uphold; Mine elect, in whom My soul delighteth;
I have put My Spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

MATT. 24:31.
And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect
from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

11JOHN 1:13.
The children of Thy elect sister greet thee. Amen.