Does Hell exist?

[Meshullam]

'For God has accursed all in human nature, that he may have mercy on all'.

Don't you ever wonder, 'how are men judged?'

I don't trust that God will line everyone up and say 'ok, you believed in Jesus, go here', and to some he'll say 'ok, you didn't, go here'.

'For he that is persuaded of me has life unending'.

He went to preach to those already dead. Does nobody understand the significance of that?

 

[Meshullam]

'For truly; he who dies is freed from the state of sin'.

 

[JesusChica1991]

See...the whole breeding worm deal is one of those confusing aspects for me as well. I read that in one of my devotional studies and scratched my head and was like "huh?" The gnashing of teeth I believe is what one does when they are extremely angry...they grind their teeth together. This would probably mean there is anger in Hell because in Heaven, I wouldn't imagine there being any anger there. I'm doing an exegetical paper on this next month for one of my classes so I'm sure I'll find out more about Hell and eternal damnation.

 

[Meshullam]

'For each will be rendered according to the deeds of it'.

rendering is almost instantaneous, but irreversible. It's a method of 'imprinting' or 'changing the chemical make up' of something.

 

[JesusChica1991]

'For God has accursed all in human nature, that he may have mercy on all'.

Don't you ever wonder, 'how are men judged?'

I don't trust that God will line everyone up and say 'ok, you believed in Jesus, go here', and to some he'll say 'ok, you didn't, go here'.

'For he that is persuaded of me has life unending'.

He went to preach to those already dead. Does nobody understand the significance of that?

I don't think it'll be that way either. You can believe in Jesus but not in his saving grace. But we need to also understand when Jesus comes back, Revelation says he is coming back with a vengeance and righteous fury. Yes, he came to preach to those already dead and to save those but the determining factor lies in whether or not they will accept his Sacrifice.

 

[Meshullam]

See...the whole breeding worm deal is one of those confusing aspects for me as well. I read that in one of my devotional studies and scratched my head and was like "huh?" The gnashing of teeth I believe is what one does when they are extremely angry...they grind their teeth together. This would probably mean there is anger in Hell because in Heaven, I wouldn't imagine there being any anger there. I'm doing an exegetical paper on this next month for one of my classes so I'm sure I'll find out more about Hell and eternal damnation.

See heaven as the hebrew word intended; 'elevations' or verb form 'elevated'. It is a state of mind like 'enlightened'.

And see the actual abode of the risen men as either 'gehinnom' (hell) or 'Gan Eden' (renewed Earth).

Most, and by that I mean almost all, will enter 'gehinnom'. None 'die', because all are risen immortal.

And depending on their deeds, their 'level of righteousness' they will go to 'Gan Eden' or 'Gehinnom'.

 

[Meshullam]

I don't think it'll be that way either. You can believe in Jesus but not in his saving grace. But we need to also understand when Jesus comes back, Revelation says he is coming back with a vengeance and righteous fury. Yes, he came to preach to those already dead and to save those but the determining factor lies in whether or not they will accept his Sacrifice.

It doesn't, not from my reading. The determining factor is on the deeds and mindset of someone.

All will stand before God's judgement seat after death and resurrection (which Jesus' sacrifice afforded us). All are cursed in disobedience. All fall short. And each is rendered according to the deeds of it.

The 'salvation' in this life isn't from 'hell'. it's from all the sinful desire, from the lust, and from human nature. With Jesus teachings, someone can attain 'peace'. 'Salvation'.

Phillipians 2:12

So those I love: even to the degree that you always listened, not only as in the prescence of me, but now moreover in the absence of me; work out your own salvation with respect and timidity.

John 14:27

'Peace I permit you here; I give you the whole of me, not as the world gives to you; do not stir up the mind of yourselves, nor let it dread.'

 

[JesusChica1991]

It doesn't, not from my reading. The determining factor is on the deeds and mindset of someone.

All will stand before God's judgement seat after death and resurrection (which Jesus' sacrifice afforded us). All are cursed in disobedience. All fall short. And each is rendered according to the deeds of it.

The 'salvation' in this life isn't from 'hell'. it's from all the sinful desire, from the lust, and from human nature. With Jesus teachings, someone can attain 'peace'. 'Salvation'.

Phillipians 2:12

So those I love: even to the degree that you always listened, not only as in the prescence of me, but now moreover in the absence of me; work out your own salvation with respect and timidity.

John 14:27

'Peace I permit you here; I give you the whole of me, not as the world gives to you; do not stir up the mind of yourselves, nor let it dread.'

It depends on which you accept though. Are you following Christ in terms of grace and repenting or are you pushing and striving to live in perfection? As fallen people, it is impossible to live in perfection because of our urges and desires to sins. It's a natural state of the curse. The Sacrifice Christ paid was to save us from the punishment of the Law. Under the Jewish Covenant, we are required to die as a result of our sins. But because of Christ, we do not have to live under the Jewish law anymore. Christ was the sacrifice so that we did not have to live like the Jews did. It is only through Christ that we become perfect. It is not by human desire in no way. Paul teaches this all throughout the book of Romans.

 

[Nancyer]

I've always believed Hell was real but my belief before finding God was the fire and brimstone stuff. Now I understand it is simply the complete absence of God. Not that that is so simple. And it seems pretty minor to those who don't follow him here on earth. But I believe they have no idea how horrible that will be. Not believing in Him or Jesus doesn't mean He doesn't exist and is not with them so they have no idea what it will be like. The desolate emptiness, loneliness, will be unimaginable, complete torture. I don't know that it will be a not, fiery, physically miserable place. Perhaps a lot like we have now just completely lacking in love, joy, compassion, and kindness. This is what I believe. I could be wrong, and I pray I won't ever have to find out.

 

[Meshullam]

It depends on which you accept though. Are you following Christ in terms of grace and repenting or are you pushing and striving to live in perfection? As fallen people, it is impossible to live in perfection because of our urges and desires to sins. It's a natural state of the curse. The Sacrifice Christ paid was to save us from the punishment of the Law. Under the Jewish Covenant, we are required to die as a result of our sins. But because of Christ, we do not have to live under the Jewish law anymore. Christ was the sacrifice so that we did not have to live like the Jews did. It is only through Christ that we become perfect. It is not by human desire in no way. Paul teaches this all throughout the book of Romans.

Nobody can live in perfection. So the second is pointless to even attempt.

But living with compassion and being 'enlightened' are totally attainable. Attaining 'peace', which allows someone to live and act for the sake of others, without fear or anguish or these things.

There is a difference between 'desire (I want for myself)' and right-wisdom (I shall not want).

I accept Jesus 'salvation' on earth whenever I start really listening to what he says. Then I'm saved from much of the condition that people live in. The strife, hurt, pain. These things are replaced with joy and inner peace and compassion like Jesus gave the apostles.

I'm not reading my bible for a place in 'Gan Eden', I'm reading my bible because living for God is better than living with a thorn in my side (wrong thinking).

The question you asked is very broad, but I will put down this;

'God, our lifegiver, who will have all men be saved and come to knowledge of the truth'.

The truth is as you say; Jesus paid our sacrificial price so that all shall rise with immortal bodies.

But what we need to be 'rendered to us' (to learn, to be preached to us, to adhere to us, to 'eat (with our 'teeth')), depends on the deeds and mind that a person had in mortal life.

'For then (on THE day) I shall know fully, just as I am fully known'.

 

[JesusChica1991]

I've always believed Hell was real but my belief before finding God was the fire and brimstone stuff. Now I understand it is simply the complete absence of God. Not that that is so simple. And it seems pretty minor to those who don't follow him here on earth. But I believe they have no idea how horrible that will be. Not believing in Him or Jesus doesn't mean He doesn't exist and is not with them so they have no idea what it will be like. The desolate emptiness, loneliness, will be unimaginable, complete torture. I don't know that it will be a not, fiery, physically miserable place. Perhaps a lot like we have now just completely lacking in love, joy, compassion, and kindness. This is what I believe. I could be wrong, and I pray I won't ever have to find out.

Exactly. As Christians, if you are a true and REPENTANT believer (repentant being the key word), then you won't have to worry about it. If you have accepted His Son Jesus and have asked forgiveness from your sins and repented from your sins, you are on the path of a believer.

 

[Angela53510]

If Hitler died without repenting and is in heaven, then that is a place I do not want to be.

And since my blessed hope is to be with Jesus one day, I don't care if it is heaven, hell, this earth or in a galaxy far, far away.

Being with Jesus, that will be heaven - wherever the location.

 

[Meshullam]

And think about this;

Jesus treated sinners with the utmost respect and forgiveness. He doesn't change.

His vengaence and fury is against sin, and it's make up. Against deception itself.

Literally, sin itself is going to be defeated. Death itself will be destroyed.

 

[Meshullam]

His compassion quells and he is enraged against suffering, against tears, against death. He doesn't want humanity to be cursed. Nor does he wish us to be downtrodden or victims of sin. So all these things themselves will be annulled.

That is why it's called the 'renewed earth'.

'Gan Eden' - new eden

 

[Meshullam]

I believe Jesus came to abolish the type of religion that sets a pharisee as 'righteous' and 'saved' for following a certain set of rules in a certain order with certain professions in between, cause it was all plod on the inside.

Dunks head in water, followed by profession of belief, followed by attending a building full of other professional professors = one more victim. The same way the pharisees would pay their tithe and pray so many times a day.

Peace isn't attained that way, nor is wisdom.

If a person does it for fear, then the only thing they gain is comfort. If a person does it for an end gift, then all they attain is expectation. If a person does it for their earnest good-will, then peace is what they find.

This is the truth of why some people are just never gonna get it in this life. And that's why Jesus died I believe. People will always be running round unsure of what is what, who is who and why is that that way, spending days quoting the same terms thinking the more they say it the more it will work for them or the more at peace they'll feel, but unless someone understands that these things are meant to free a person and give a person hope and faith through the means of peace, which by the way is wholly-self attainable with the right instruction (a la bible), then they will always be asking 'why this' 'why that' 'I don't understand', what if, i'm unsure, how come, why so. confusion leads to frustration and eventually anger and dismay.

The same way 'atheists' work at life, only with a different title.

To think that these people are tortured for eternity is vile.

The people who are just and kind and good, as the bible says, 'obtain favour from the lord'.

It's got absolutely nothing to do with being 'part of the clan'.

'The harlots and tax collectors shall take part of the rule of God before you will'.

I am convinced, God only desires selfless thoughts and selfless actions. But as much of humanity are so prone to the opposite, here we have thousands of pages of text on the subject. And even in those circles, pride comes before equality.

Sad really.

the 'hell' most perceive nowadays is just a product of that pride.

 

[Meshullam]

I can tell every single person reading this a small truth with big consequences; unless you search for the real God, you will never find Him in this life.

I know non-Christians who do Jesus' wishes with all the love and joy that I see from the man himself. Just because they don't take the title, doesn't mean they don't walk the walk in oodles of finesse that I sometimes can't even fathom.

But you know why they aren't 'Christians'? Not because they 'hate God' or 'deny Jesus' or 'have not come to repentance', it's because religion today generally means ritualism of a compulsive checklist that has no substance or merit for anything except its rituals.

'Accept this view on doctrine and you are saved, or find another church and see you in hell'.

 

[JesusChica1991]

Many Christians have ritualized the faith, yes. But the reality is it's not meant to be a religion or pharisaic way of life. It's supposed to be a relationship. That's the beauty of the Christian faith in the first place. But many people (including me sometimes) have turned it into a conditional way of life. Faith is not supposed to be about rules. It's supposed to be about faith in the spirit. Faith comes first. The rest is supposed to come later as a person grows in their faith.

 

[DannyC]

Is Hell really morally just? As opinions differ regarding the abolsutes of morality or the etymology, I caution anyone to insist I must be a moral nihilist, I wonder does the aspect of Hell sit as an agreeable moral just.

 

[Meshullam]

faith (pistis) means 'trust', JesusChica. It's not that 'look outside you and wish so much that you're totally expectant that your wish comes true' kind of faith. It's trust when a person has examined and learnt and realised enough. Yes, like a relationship.

a person has to search for the real God in order to trust the real God, yet id say a very high percentage jump into a church and accept whatever the pastor or the person behind the pulpit tells them.

To trust something we must first understand it. There is nothing good that comes from 'blind faith'.

all those 'great men' of the bible?? They had seen and heard God, or they had sat with Jesus and ate food with the man!

They knew they could trust him.

 

[JesusChica1991]

faith (pistis) means 'trust', JesusChica. It's not that 'look outside you and wish so much that you're totally expectant that your wish comes true' kind of faith. It's trust when a person has examined and learnt and realised enough. Yes, like a relationship.

a person has to search for the real God in order to trust the real God, yet id say a very high percentage jump into a church and accept whatever the pastor or the person behind the pulpit tells them.

To trust something we must first understand it. There is nothing good that comes from 'blind faith'.

all those 'great men' of the bible?? They had seen and heard God, or they had sat with Jesus and ate food with the man!

They knew they could trust him.

I came to faith as a child. I was 9 years old and I NEVER fully understood what Jesus was. But as I grew older, I understand it more. Unlike some people, I grew up in church and in a Christian family. Most concepts I have known since I was able to read and write. But it does not mean I truly UNDERSTOOD the meaning behind everything. You can't expect new believers to know everything about Christ yet. All they know is that they need to repent for their sins because Jesus told them to. You can't expt new christians to have a deep sense of theology. It's unrealistic..