Does man have a libertarian free will?

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Does man have a libertarian free will?

  • Yes, man has a libertarian free will

    Votes: 12 41.4%
  • No, man does not have a libertarian free will

    Votes: 16 55.2%
  • I don't know

    Votes: 1 3.4%

  • Total voters
    29
Mar 5, 2020
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sorry...that was an incomplete thought

I meant God did not create sin

but as you say, the law exposes sin
Thanks for clearing that up. How can God not have created sin? God promulgated his laws for people to obey. Disobedience of those laws is what?
 
Mar 5, 2020
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No, what I said is that regeneration comes logically prior to faith and repentance, and indwelling/sealing follows this.

In reality, it is all happening at just about the same instant, but the important thing is that regeneration causes faith and repentance. A new heart is needed in order to exercise the fruit of faith and repentance. The stony heart can't produce it.
Where does it say in the bible that people are regenerated before they hold faith in the re-generator?
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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why use the same old backwards logic that never worked before and does not work now?

our sins are forgiven when we accept Christ

no one actually gets a 'new' spirit

they get a renewed spirit and the Holy Spirit

you folks attempt to say we did everything ourselves because you do not understand how it really works
Now I know how you folks think it works.

But that doesn't mean I don't understand it. I just very much disagree.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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most?

I thought we all needed Christ
Well make up your mind.

Do you need Him or are you causing yourself to be sinless and causing yourself to have a new heart and a new spirit?

Its one or the other.

You need a Saviour or you save yourself.

Maybe it is you who doesn't understand how it works.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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Yes.

This is exactly the way it works for all to be truly saved. You are not kicking against me, you are kicking against the Holy inspired Word of God. All I posted was Scripture. Scripture that states that we must turn our hearts, minds, and eyes towards Jesus in order to be saved. Please do not insinuate that I do not believe I need a Saviour. That is not what Ezekiel 18 is saying.

18:30 Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and turn [yourselves] from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin.
18:31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
18:32 For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn [yourselves], and live ye.
That's exactly what you are insinuating.

Either be perfect according to the Law and make yourself a new heart and a new spirit or Call on a Saviour.


I'm not kicking against the Holy Word of God. I'm showing you that the reason for Christianity is because NO ONE could do what Ez 18 is telling them to do.
 
Mar 5, 2020
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That's exactly what you are insinuating.

Either be perfect according to the Law and make yourself a new heart and a new spirit or Call on a Saviour.


I'm not kicking against the Holy Word of God. I'm showing you that the reason for Christianity is because NO ONE could do what Ez 18 is telling them to do.
Ez 18?
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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Where does it say in the bible that people are regenerated before they hold faith in the re-generator?
That would be ABSURD, since the gift of the Holy Spirit is only given to those who repent and believe. And it is only AFTER receiving the Spirit that regeneration occurs. God does not give His Spirit to unbelieving sinners in order to make them believe. But the Holy Spirit convicts and convinces before conversion.
 
Mar 5, 2020
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That would be ABSURD, since the gift of the Holy Spirit is only given to those who repent and believe. And it is only AFTER receiving the Spirit that regeneration occurs. God does not give His Spirit to unbelieving sinners in order to make them believe. But the Holy Spirit convicts and convinces before conversion.
Thanks. That is what I remember as well.
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
Thanks for clearing that up. How can God not have created sin? God promulgated his laws for people to obey. Disobedience of those laws is what?
actually, if you will read Romans you will find that Paul states that the law EXPOSES the sin we all have

the simple explanation for the meaning of sin is 'missing the mark'

we have all missed God's mark and we know it because of the law

4Therefore, my brothers, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit to God. 5For when we lived according to the flesh, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in our bodies, bearing fruit for death. 6But now, having died to what bound us, we have been released from the law, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.
God’s Law Is Holy
7What then shall we say? Is the law sin? Certainly not! Indeed, I would not have been mindful of sin if not for the law. For I would not have been aware of coveting if the law had not said, “Do not covet.”a 8But sin, seizing its opportunity through the commandment, produced in me every kind of covetous desire. For apart from the law, sin is dead.
9Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. 10So I discovered that the very commandment that was meant to bring life actually brought death. 11For sin, seizing its opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through the commandment put me to death.
12So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous, and good.

Romans 7
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
Well make up your mind.

Do you need Him or are you causing yourself to be sinless and causing yourself to have a new heart and a new spirit?

Its one or the other.

You need a Saviour or you save yourself.

Maybe it is you who doesn't understand how it works.

the usual baloney with a twist of no one said that

disappointing
 
Jan 17, 2020
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By that rationale then , if we do not pray , we do not have to align ourselves with His plan? And are then free to make our own choice?
No, we pray for a reason God sends to motivate our prayers.
 
Jan 17, 2020
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Is this an opinion or does Scripture back this up?
Have you ever made a choice not based on a reason? For no reason at all? God works all things, including the reasons we base our choices on, after the counsel of his own will.

“In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:” Ephesians 1:11 (KJV 1900)
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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Have you ever made a choice not based on a reason? For no reason at all? God works all things, including the reasons we base our choices on, after the counsel of his own will.

“In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:” Ephesians 1:11 (KJV 1900)
Does every reason come from God? I eat because I’m hungry. I choose to eat a slice of pizza because I’ve had it before and it tastes good. Did God cause me to make that choice?

The Ephesians passage is concerning our future redemption. God has guaranteed it will work out for those in Christ.
 
Jan 17, 2020
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Does every reason come from God? I eat because I’m hungry. I choose to eat a slice of pizza because I’ve had it before and it tastes good. Did God cause me to make that choice?

The Ephesians passage is concerning our future redemption. God has guaranteed it will work out for those in Christ.
How can anything not come from God?
 
Jan 17, 2020
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Some things come from walking after the flesh. Some are beguiled to follow false doctrine.
Why do we pray to God not to lead us into temptation if the power resides in us? Or ask his blessing if it is in our own power?