Does scripture given to Israel apply to saved gentiles?

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glf1

Active member
Jun 10, 2018
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#21
Rom 15:4 "For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope."
2 Cor 1:20 "For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us."
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
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#22
yet Jesus changed all that

we can now come to God without fear that we somehow do not meet His 'standards'

when we study the NT, we come to understand that God never intended for people to be saved through the law. the law was but a shadow of the reality, which is in Christ Jesus and the blood of animals could never cleanse of sins and remove them. only the blood of Christ removes them and in Christ, we are acceptable to God

God is our Father. he is not our taskmaster and He has not applied the law to Gentiles. In fact, He has invited the Jews to step out from under the law and recognize the Messiah

Gentiles do not become Jewish. there is absolutely nothing in the NT that refers to Gentiles becoming Jewish...in fact quite the opposite

works of the flesh are not acceptable to God. ONLY those who accept Jesus are acceptable to God and welcome into the Holy of Holies wherein God dwells 'spiritually' speaking

telling people they have to somehow keep any part of the law, that was NEVER given to Gentiles, closes the door to salvation and it is not at all what scripture says

stop conflating the testaments. one is a foreshadowing of the other
Scripture tells us that through faith in Christ we are accepted in Israel. That is Jewish. In fact, true Israel is made up of people with faith.

Scripture speaks of Israel in two ways. One is the ethnic Israel made up of believers, the other is national Israel that is a physical country. In this thread we are speaking of ethnic Israel.

At no time, according to scripture, has God given salvation for law obedience. Moses was told that there were blessings for obedience but there is no scripture saying God gives salvation for obedience. God is holy, man is not. Man cannot make himself holy, it is impossible, always was.

The idea that there is one God with one way before Christ and another God with different ways after Christ is false. Christ said so. The NT is filled with quotes from the OT given as proof of what the NT says. What the apostles said was only accepted when it agreed with the OT scriptures. God is eternal, the same always.

Paul was accused in court of speaking of a God who changed and it was proven that Paul didn't do that.
 
Dec 9, 2011
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#23
Yes all of God's law applies to Gentiles. HOWEVER, we obey it spiritually under Christ, not physically like they did under Moses. So, for example, our circumcision is spiritual circumcision of the heart, not physical circumcision. Our sabbath is not a physical rest on a physical day, it is resting spiritually- which is called 'the peace that surpasses understanding '.
Yes,we are members of the body of CHRIST,we are not under law but we are under grace.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
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#24
Discussing what scripture tells us is not using any back door. If you have something to say just say it, I hope it is backed by scripture.

I agree, God is a God of gentiles and Jews equally, God is not one God for a Jew with different ways for a gentile. God is eternal, the same always, holy.
I did say it.........AND, from reading your follow up comments, I was spot on with my assessment........

As far as Scripture goes.......I'll do as you did...........

Matthew 1:1........................thru................ Jude 1:25

Under the First Covenant, The Law, Gods chosen people were a Nation. The Nation of Israel

Under the New Covenant, Grace, Gods chosen people are the Church.

The majority of the Mosaic Laws do not apply to the Church. Dietary and Ceremonial to be specific. The Moral Laws still do. They being the 10 Commandments............as well, the Law of Faith that Jesus established also apply to the Church.

Just read the Scripture I suggested you read............and, with understanding.
 

Quantrill

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2018
988
300
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#25
God will not be bringing New Paris, New Chicago or New Moscow from heaven, it is the New Jerusalem, the capitol of the Israel of God with all its inhabitants, praisers of Yah, that is to you, praisers of God………..Praisers of Yah are Jews. Does this put you off? Are you still apart from the true Jews?

Do you think the Israel of God shold be rename the Greece of God? Time will tell...
Some Jews praise God. Some don't. Some Gentiles praise God. Some don't.

I never was part of Israel.

Quantrill
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
27,857
5,086
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#26
Romans 2:28) For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is thatcircumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29) But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.


3:20) Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

21But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

22Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

27Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

28Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.


That's all you really need to know...........

And, the Church IS the New Jerusalem.......if one is not a part of the New Jerusalem, they are not a child of God.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#27
Romans 11 explains very well the place of Israel in the life of gentile Christians.

Israel in scripture is explained as consisting of the elect of God, the saved. This if ethnic Israel. Scripture sometimes speaks of national Israel, and the Jewish people of that nation are sometimes part of ethnic Israel and sometimes not. It is explained in Romans that God is faithful to His promises to national Israel even when they are unfaithful.

When we accept Christ as our Savior we are adopted into Israel, and all the promises and instructions given to them apply to both Jew and gentile. We are told that in God's eyes there is no difference in people. The Jews were chosen to demonstrate God to all others, and for that they have a special blessing, but as people we are all the same.

I would agree but I would say the outward Jew in respect to the flesh as that seen no longer a special blessing that they saw no profit in . The promised time of reformation has come when the outward Jews were used as a parable for the time previous.(Kings) No longer is the flesh of a Jew used as shadows and types. The genealogy of generation of Christ was made complete when the Son of man did come. Making useless a record keeping of genealogy that went past the time of reformation.
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,612
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#28
SOME Scripture given to Israel apply to saved gentiles.

The problem most people have is, we speak of OT and NT, and that causes some to believe there are only two covenants in the Bible. Well many of the covenants in the OT are still going and valid to gentile believers.
Heresy you say? Nay, hear me out. The covenant God made with NOAH is still in effect, and applies to everyone alive today, want proof? Check out a rainbow. Noah was given permission to eat all animals, yet later on Moses was forbidden from eating this and that animal, both are in the OT, is that a contradiction????? NO! Its a different covenant. The Mosaic covenant is different from the covenant of Noah, despite both being in what we call the O.T.!

Its important to know this.

Then we have in Leviticus many rules and regulations about ritual purity, guidelines to Levitical priests, but THESE scriptures given to Israel do NOT apply today. Why? Because Hebrews tells us that there has been a change in priesthood, therefore of necessity also a change in the law! We went from Levites to Melchizedek priesthood. Christ is the high-priest now.

Do the TenCommandments apply to us? Well, the NT lists ALL OF THEM to Christian gentile believers, EXCEPT for one, the sabbath day.

Basically, its not as hard to discern and divide WHAT scriptures given to Israel apply to us.
When Jesus says to His disciples to do EVERYTHING the pharisees ask, because they are in the seat of Moses, should we do that? NO. Should we sacrifice turtledoves? NO! But should we love our neighbor, and love God? YES!

I hope everyone gets my point, its easy to discern. If you read a scripture about Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, believe the book, dont do like commentators of yesterday and say "Here we have the Gospel church surrounded by papists" or something ridicilous to force it to apply to us today!
 
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7seasrekeyed

Guest
#29
Scripture tells us that through faith in Christ we are accepted in Israel. That is Jewish. In fact, true Israel is made up of people with faith.

Scripture speaks of Israel in two ways. One is the ethnic Israel made up of believers, the other is national Israel that is a physical country. In this thread we are speaking of ethnic Israel.

At no time, according to scripture, has God given salvation for law obedience. Moses was told that there were blessings for obedience but there is no scripture saying God gives salvation for obedience. God is holy, man is not. Man cannot make himself holy, it is impossible, always was.

The idea that there is one God with one way before Christ and another God with different ways after Christ is false. Christ said so. The NT is filled with quotes from the OT given as proof of what the NT says. What the apostles said was only accepted when it agreed with the OT scriptures. God is eternal, the same always.

Paul was accused in court of speaking of a God who changed and it was proven that Paul didn't do that.

please provide that EXACT scripture or even something close

your less than stellar understanding of the testaments provides a mixed bag of your personal interpretation that is not ground for anyone to stand on and less, to comprehend the actual wonderful plan of God for our salvation

The idea that there is one God with one way before Christ and another God with different ways after Christ is false. Christ said so. The NT is filled with quotes from the OT given as proof of what the NT says. What the apostles said was only accepted when it agreed with the OT scriptures. God is eternal, the same always.
that's interesting. but who is the recipient of the above quote? I certainly said nothing remotely indicating anything to engender such a response. are you just winging it here?

who said God has changed? God is not the problem here. what is the problem, is your revolving door understanding of the testaments and the mashup presentation of law, Jews and Gentiles and salvation

you cannot nail down the NT by applying the OT on top of it like some kind of veneer

the OT points to the new and is not and never was, meant as a caveat the way you present it
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,612
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#30
By the way, to everyone using the "no jew nor greek in Christ Jesus" verse to prove this idea that Israel is done for, never to return is not only discounting prophecy but is also MISAPPLYING the verse.
The verse also says in Christ there is no MALE or FEMALE. Now does that mean that there is no more gender? Seriously? No distinction whatsoever? Of course not, and I doubt anyone is dumb enough to believe that (then again its 2018 and gender confusion is getting more common).

The same thing applies to no jew nor greek. People dont stop being Jews after they get saved, or from being gentiles after they get saved. I am still a Jew, whether im saved or not. If you are african, you will remain african, saved or unsaved.
This isnt just some idea that I have: Paul, AFTER being saved said that he is the hebrew of hebrews, from the TRIBE of Benjamin.
This same idea continues on in the book of James, written to the TRIBES of Israel. And again in the book of Revelation where the 144 000 are mentioned from each TRIBE (excluding Dan, interesting study there, I believe antichrist comes from that tribe, in the OT tribe of Dan is often connected to wickedness and idolatry)
 
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7seasrekeyed

Guest
#31
The idea that there is one God with one way before Christ and another God with different ways after Christ is false. Christ said so. The NT is filled with quotes from the OT given as proof of what the NT says. What the apostles said was only accepted when it agreed with the OT scriptures. God is eternal, the same always.
while that is so, they are quoted to prove OT prophecy is true

what do you do with the rest of the NT?

ay cruh-rum-ba :rolleyes:
 
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7seasrekeyed

Guest
#32
By the way, to everyone using the "no jew nor greek in Christ Jesus" verse to prove this idea that Israel is done for, never to return is not only discounting prophecy but is also MISAPPLYING the verse.
The verse also says in Christ there is no MALE or FEMALE. Now does that mean that there is no more gender? Seriously? No distinction whatsoever? Of course not, and I doubt anyone is dumb enough to believe that (then again its 2018 and gender confusion is getting more common).
yuh know, I have seen enough in this forum to actually think that would be the understanding of certain people

it simply means we are equal before God in Christ Jesus and no, Israel is not forgotten by God but that is also the stand of a good many believers in this forum..and the world it seems
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
5,840
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#33
I did say it.........AND, from reading your follow up comments, I was spot on with my assessment........

As far as Scripture goes.......I'll do as you did...........

Matthew 1:1........................thru................ Jude 1:25

Under the First Covenant, The Law, Gods chosen people were a Nation. The Nation of Israel

Under the New Covenant, Grace, Gods chosen people are the Church.

The majority of the Mosaic Laws do not apply to the Church. Dietary and Ceremonial to be specific. The Moral Laws still do. They being the 10 Commandments............as well, the Law of Faith that Jesus established also apply to the Church.

Just read the Scripture I suggested you read............and, with understanding.
Have you studied 'covenant". It isn't something that is cancelled, God takes the covenants He gives seriously. If you mean the covenant given through Moses, please read the covenant. It isn't a covenant given to tell us how to please God, it is given to us for our blessing. We are saved through grace, and the law has nothing to do with it. The law is how we can be blessed apart from the blessing of salvation.

We are not under the Law of Moses in that we have died to the law through Christ and we accept the spirit of God. God's spirit does not disobey the law, it obeys it in spirit and truth. It does not murder, does not lie, doesn't gossip maliciously etc. but it is not a legalistic obedience but obedience through the spirit.

We do not obey law or are under law for salvation for it is through God's grace we receive salvation. Old and New testaments tell us so. But we are under law for blessings.
 

MattforJesus

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
2,822
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#35
Of course the scriptures given to Israel apply to saved Gentiles, for all the word of God was given to the Jews, which they had the advantage above the Gentiles for the oracles of God was given to them, and Jesus said salvation is of the Jews.

The Bible says when a Gentile is saved they are a Jew inward, and belong to the commonwealth of Israel, for Israel is the Church, that is why the new earth is called the New Jerusalem, and the 12 tribes of Israel, and the 12 apostles of the Lamb, are written in the New Jerusalem.

It is all about Israel for they are God's chosen people all the time, but because of their rejection of truth they do not have the kingdom on earth, but it will be restored to them in the future.
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
5,928
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#36
When we accept Christ as our Savior we are adopted into Israel, and all the promises and instructions given to them apply to both Jew and gentile. We are told that in God's eyes there is no difference in people. The Jews were chosen to demonstrate God to all others, and for that they have a special blessing, but as people we are all the same.
This is somewhat of a loaded statement - which "all instructions" apply to both?

Where is this "special blessing" and how are they "demonstrating God to all others" by practicing a corrupted form of worship?
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
18,503
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#37
Have you studied 'covenant". It isn't something that is cancelled, God takes the covenants He gives seriously. If you mean the covenant given through Moses, please read the covenant. It isn't a covenant given to tell us how to please God, it is given to us for our blessing. We are saved through grace, and the law has nothing to do with it. The law is how we can be blessed apart from the blessing of salvation.

We are not under the Law of Moses in that we have died to the law through Christ and we accept the spirit of God. God's spirit does not disobey the law, it obeys it in spirit and truth. It does not murder, does not lie, doesn't gossip maliciously etc. but it is not a legalistic obedience but obedience through the spirit.

We do not obey law or are under law for salvation for it is through God's grace we receive salvation. Old and New testaments tell us so. But we are under law for blessings.
Either we are under the Law or we are not. Paul made that clear to the Galatians. "Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh?" Further, as he explained to the Ephesians, "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Jesus Christ"... not in the law!
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
9,105
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#38
just so everyone knows- the o.p. thinks that Christ was crucified on wed. and rose on the Sabbath. so, then , one must keep the Sabbath to be saved.

that is what he is driving at. I have interacted with him many times. that is how in know.
 
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7seasrekeyed

Guest
#39
just so everyone knows- the o.p. thinks that Christ was crucified on wed. and rose on the Sabbath. so, then , one must keep the Sabbath to be saved.

that is what he is driving at. I have interacted with him many times. that is how in know.
huh

well why didn't he just say so?

rhetorical question :sneaky:
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#40
Rom 15:4 "For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope."
This corresponds to 2 Timothy 3:16 which tells us that ALL SCRIPTURE (Genesis to Revelation) is profitable for Christians.
Does scripture given to Israel apply to saved gentiles?
This question should be reworded to say "Does the Old Covenant found in the Old Testament (OT) apply to Christians?" And the answer is "NO" (other than for a few commandments mentioned in Acts 15).


The whole of the Hebrew Tanakh (our Old Testament) was given to Israel. But it was not exclusively for Israel. At the same time the OT is foundational for the NT. And the whole Bible is for all Christians.