Does water baptism save us

[Cobus]

Jabberjaw you showed me nothing. I asked you what is THE ONE NAME of the Faher and the Son and the Holy Spirit.... Can you show me the NAME, the ONE NAME of God?

You did not succeed thus far and I will tell you it is in the book of Revelation. And it is also in the book of Ephesians.

Jesus referd to it when at the well. And that is how FAITH is gained...

So please for the benefity of all readers, SHOW US WHAT IS THE ONE NAME OF GOD that the APOSTLES shoulfd baptize in, and DID Baptize in. What is the ONE NAME.... Just show scripture that says .... AND HIS NAME IS:..........

Come it all comes together in THIS ONE NAME... it is also what makes us FREE.... It is also given in BY GOD Himself... It is the TRUTH and the LORD made flesh.... Show us what the APOSTLES baptized in and with.... The same NAME of the Father, and teh Son and the Holy Spirit....


Here is another hint.... And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood..... Get that verse and you will SEE what God wants us to baptize with....


Look what the whole command was.... Mat 28... Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you:

Ok go and teach all nations... TEACH THEM WHAT?
Baptize them in THE NAME.... BAPTIZE THEM IN WHAT?
Teaching them all things to observe whatsoever I have commanded you... OBSERVE WHAT?

In all the BOLD BLUE above their is only just ONE ANSWER.... The WHAT in all three questions I ask, is OBNE ANSWER ... what is that ANSWER it is also the NAME of God and the ONE NAME you look for... Next time I come on I will show you what the NAME is....

 

[faroukfarouk]

Jabberjaw you showed me nothing. I asked you what is THE ONE NAME of the Faher and the Son and the Holy Spirit.... Can you show me the NAME, the ONE NAME of God?

You did not succeed thus far and I will tell you it is in the book of Revelation. And it is also in the book of Ephesians.

Jesus referd to it when at the well. And that is how FAITH is gained...

So please for the benefity of all readers, SHOW US WHAT IS THE ONE NAME OF GOD that the APOSTLES shoulfd baptize in, and DID Baptize in. What is the ONE NAME.... Just show scripture that says .... AND HIS NAME IS:..........

Come it all comes together in THIS ONE NAME... it is also what makes us FREE.... It is also given in BY GOD Himself... It is the TRUTH and the LORD made flesh.... Show us what the APOSTLES baptized in and with.... The same NAME of the Father, and teh Son and the Holy Spirit....


Here is another hint.... And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood..... Get that verse and you will SEE what God wants us to baptize with....


Look what the whole command was.... Mat 28... Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you:

Ok go and teach all nations... TEACH THEM WHAT?
Baptize them in THE NAME.... BAPTIZE THEM IN WHAT?
Teaching them all things to observe whatsoever I have commanded you... OBSERVE WHAT?

In all the BOLD BLUE above their is only just ONE ANSWER.... The WHAT in all three questions I ask, is OBNE ANSWER ... what is that ANSWER it is also the NAME of God and the ONE NAME you look for... Next time I come on I will show you what the NAME is....

Interesting that at the end of Matthew 28 it says 'in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost': one name, three Persons: God in three persons indeed!

 

[saved1975]

You said "You can't be baptized in the Holy Ghost and speak in tongues unless you are saved" and I want you to prove that to me with scripture?

Prove to me that Baptism of the Holy Spirit saves.

There isn't one Bible scripture that says the unsaved were baptised in the Holy Ghost.
The disciples in Act 8: 14--17, were saved and baptised in water, before they were baptised in the Holy Ghost.

Paul was saved three days before he was baptised in the Holy Ghost, Acts 9: 6--17.

The Gentiles in Acts 10: 44--46 heard the gospel and believed, Then they received the Holy Ghost,
We know from Acts 11: 14 that Peter spoke the words of salvation.

The disciples in Acts 19: 2--6 were saved, before Paul laid his hands on them to receive the Holy Ghost.

Peter said repent for the remission of sins, [Get saved] Then you will receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Jesus said, "These signs shall follow them that BELIEVE, [Are saved], They shall speak in tongues, And you speak in tongues when you are baptised in the Holy Ghost.



I never said you have to be baptised in the Holy Ghost to be saved.
The disciples in Acts 8: 14--17 were saved, But they weren't baptised in the Holy Ghost at that time, Not until the Apostles laid hands on them.

Paul was saved three days before he was baptised in the Holy Ghost.
The disciples in Acts 19: 2--6, were saved, But they weren't baptised in the Holy Ghost until Paul laid his hands on them.

 

[SeaBass]

You seem to ignore the spirit part and grab onto the water part and say it means baptism which isn't even mentioned in John 3. Let's look at it all together:

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again (not baptized), he cannot see the kingdom of God.

John 3:4 [questioning the term "born again"] Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into him mother's womb, and be born? [Even Nicodemus mentions the first birth, the birth of the flesh]

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Now when I read that explanation spelled out so Nicodemus would understand that it wasn't entering the womb a second time; Jesus referenced the first birth "that which is born of the flesh is flesh" is regarding being born of water and then the second birth, the new birth "that which is born of the Spirit is spirit". We must be BORN AGAIN of the Spirit to see the kingdom of God. Nothing said about we must be baptized in water to see the kingdom of God which is what you are trying to make it say.

If Matthew 3:11 doesn't apply to me then John 3:5,6 nor John 3:16 doesn't apply to me neither. How can you say Matt. 3:11 doesn't apply to us? It apparently applied to the first century church!

As I have posted many times in this thread alreay, the ibble is its own best ocommentary:


Jn 3:5-------------spirit++++++++++++++water>>>>>>>>>>in the kingdom
1Cor12"13---------spirit++++++++++++++baptized>>>>>>>>in the body
Tts 3:5-----------holy Ghost+++++++washing of reg.>>>>>>saved
Eph 5:26-----------Word++++++++++washing of water>>>>>>cleansed
1Pet 1:21---------spirit+++++++++++obey the truth>>>>>>>purified souls


All 5 verses deal with the new birth and I will stick with the bible when it shows that "water" of Jn 3:5 is equivalent to baptized,washing of reg., washing of water, obey the truth.

You claim "water" of Jn 3:5 is not water baptism when it is made equivalent to "baptized" in 1 Cor 12:13.

Water is not the flesh or physical birth of Jn 3:5, for physical birth is NOT equivalent to "baptized", "washing of reg.", "washing of water" or "obey the truth" in other new birth verses.

Jesus used the words "except" and "must", so if water refers to the physical birth, then how can you tell someone, instruct one, command one to be physically born when he already is. Why would Jesus tell a full grown adult standing in front of Him that adult MUST be physically born?


Mt 3:11 "I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, andwith fire:"

Proper exegesis is to know is is speaking, who is being spoken to and what is being said.

John is speaking, speaking to Pharisees that came to his baptism and verse 11 is what John said.

--the pronoun "you" occurs twice.

--why would John tell these Pharisees that "i baptized you with "water" when John had not done so, the Pharisees rejected John's baptism, Lk 7:30? It is apparent that neither "you" refers to those John was speaking to nor anyone today. John was simply announcing the baptism he baptized with and announcing the type of baptism Jesus would baptize with. It canot be told from the immediate context of Mt 3:11 who the pronouns "you" refer to, so we have to look at the fulfillment of this prophecy of John.

---in Acts 1:1-5 Jesus was with His apostles when He refers to what John said in Mt 3:11 in Acts 1:5. So the "you" that would be baptized with the Holy Ghost is the apostles. Of course people will try and force themselves into the verse making themselves the second "you" while ignoring the first "you" altogether.


---So Mt 3:11 is a promise to the apostles the baptism with the Holy Spirit, no one else. Christ's water baptism of the great commission, Jn 3:5; Mt 28:19,20; Mk 16:15,16 is commanded to everyone today.

 

[faroukfarouk]

As I have posted many times in this thread alreay, the ibble is its own best ocommentary:


Jn 3:5-------------spirit++++++++++++++water>>>>>>>>>>in the kingdom
1Cor12"13---------spirit++++++++++++++baptized>>>>>>>>in the body
Tts 3:5-----------holy Ghost+++++++washing of reg.>>>>>>saved
Eph 5:26-----------Word++++++++++washing of water>>>>>>cleansed
1Pet 1:21---------spirit+++++++++++obey the truth>>>>>>>purified souls


All 5 verses deal with the new birth and I will stick with the bible when it shows that "water" of Jn 3:5 is equivalent to baptized,washing of reg., washing of water, obey the truth.

You claim "water" of Jn 3:5 is not water baptism when it is made equivalent to "baptized" in 1 Cor 12:13.

Water is not the flesh or physical birth of Jn 3:5, for physical birth is NOT equivalent to "baptized", "washing of reg.", "washing of water" or "obey the truth" in other new birth verses.

Jesus used the words "except" and "must", so if water refers to the physical birth, then how can you tell someone, instruct one, command one to be physically born when he already is. Why would Jesus tell a full grown adult standing in front of Him that adult MUST be physically born?


Mt 3:11 "I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, andwith fire:"

Proper exegesis is to know is is speaking, who is being spoken to and what is being said.

John is speaking, speaking to Pharisees that came to his baptism and verse 11 is what John said.

--the pronoun "you" occurs twice.

--why would John tell these Pharisees that "i baptized you with "water" when John had not done so, the Pharisees rejected John's baptism, Lk 7:30? It is apparent that neither "you" refers to those John was speaking to nor anyone today. John was simply announcing the baptism he baptized with and announcing the type of baptism Jesus would baptize with. It canot be told from the immediate context of Mt 3:11 who the pronouns "you" refer to, so we have to look at the fulfillment of this prophecy of John.

---in Acts 1:1-5 Jesus was with His apostles when He refers to what John said in Mt 3:11 in Acts 1:5. So the "you" that would be baptized with the Holy Ghost is the apostles. Of course people will try and force themselves into the verse making themselves the second "you" while ignoring the first "you" altogether.


---So Mt 3:11 is a promise to the apostles the baptism with the Holy Spirit, no one else. Christ's water baptism of the great commission, Jn 3:5; Mt 28:19,20; Mk 16:15,16 is commanded to everyone today.

It's presumptuous to assume that the application of water will activate the Holy Spirit savingly and exclusively.

Water is a symbol of the spiritual truth of cleansing, and this cleansing is by the precious blood of Christ (Hebrews 9.14).

 

[SeaBass]

Acts 10:25 Peter meets with Cornelius and 25-33 Cornelius and Peter are basically having a conversation between themselves then in 33b Cornelius said "we all here present before God, to hear all things that are commanded thee of God v34 Then Peter opened his mouth . . . . and preached the gospel. And WHILE he spake - so while he was speaking. The words are recorded that he spoke. People have to hear the gospel to believe!!!!! [faith comes from hearing and hearing from the word of God] Peter preached Christ and him crucified in v 38 - the holy Spirit fell on those Gentiles, they spoke with tongues and magnified God v45. THEN, THEN, THEN "Can any forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the holy Spirit as well as we?" v47

Some people will go to any extent to be right. . . . .

Acts 10:44 says "while he spake" yet the context of Acts 10 does not define when "while" is..."while" could be at the beginning, in the middle or near the end of Peter's sermon. But Acts 11:4 cf Acts 11:15 tells us "while" means 'began to speak"

 

[Alligator]

baptism had nothing to do with salvation in Old Testament times. Baptism represents the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ as explained in Romans 6:3–4. It is only after the death of Christ that baptism was required for salvation.
Please give me the scripture that says the household of Cornelius were saved prior to being water baptized.

Your right, Everyone was saved by faith alone in the OT. Not by any work. so why do we want to add a work to the NT saints, When Christ paid the price in full?
As for romans 6, that is not a representation. that is a literal event, When God literally baptizes us into Christ. We should not symbolize everything, if it just represents what Paul said in romans 6, then it is useless. if it is a literal event, that it is the power of God for salvation.


If they were not saved, and washed, how did they have gifts of the spirit. God can not enter an unclean thing, the washing must take place prior to God the Holy Spirit entering and sealing a person.

I didn't say they were saved by faith alone. They still had to keep the old law. I am not adding anything that Jesus did not add. Surely you will agree that baptism is a command. Whether we agree or not we must follow His commands.

you said God cannot enter any unclean thing, you are borrowing this from the Old Testament. Read the context carefully. He shows the purpose of this Holy Spirit baptism was to convince the Jews that the Gentiles also had a part of God's plan. It was not intended for salvation.

 

[SeaBass]

And you could be speaking of yourself, also.

No one has said that we should disobey God. Water does not save you - water does not give birth to a new creation in you - water does not give birth to the spirit that dwells within you. Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? The only way the Spirit of God can dwell within you is to be born again of the Spirit. = That which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Has water baptism been commanded? Yes it has.

So if for no other reason, that command makes water baptism essential for not being water baptism would be disobedience/sin/unrighteousness.

 

[JeremiahJr]

The name: Ephesians 1:21 says that the Messiah is "above every name that is named"; 5:20 reads that Paul "gave thanks in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ". More insight into the nature of this command, and the confusion surrounding it, can be found in 1 Corinthians 10-13. What other name would one use in a rite that emulates the death and resurrection of the Redeemer?

What to teach? Teach the supremacy of the Messiah in the plan and purpose of the Lord, as well as anything that was spoken by the Messiah.

What to observe? Observe the Commandments which the Lord gave so long ago, and which have been ignored by His people.

 

[saved1975]

I have shown you what the bible says and that the Greek says the same thing, but you have to disagree because it goes against your man made doctrine. The bible clearly says what saves and no one thing saves, it clearly says of the things required to be saved there is one baptism that is salvific (Eph 4:5) and that baptism is by water done by disciples commissioned by Jesus, not done by Jesus, but like faith alone will not save you, neither will baptism alone.



It is a symbol, but not of salvation, it is a symbol of the death burial and resurrection, it is (like in the days of Noah when 8 were saved by water, the water cleansing the earth of sin, the antitype is now that water washes our sins away 1 Pet 3:20-21) it is spiritually putting you in contact (providing you have faith, repentance, and confess Christ is the son of God) with the cleansing blood of Jesus Christ, the blood that remits sin,

Revelation 1:5 (NKJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth. To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood,

you people have sinners saved, the bible does not.

If you keep Eph 4: 5. in it's right context, You will see that the, "One baptism", Is the rebirth.
V4, There is on body, one Spirit,
[By one Spirit we are baptised into the body] 1 Cor 12: 13.

V5 One Lord, one faith.
V6 One God, "who is in us who believe". Jn 17: 22-23. 2 Cor 6: 16.

According to Eph 2: 8--9, and Titus 3:5. says salvation isn't by works.
Jesus said, [Whosoever believes shall be saved]. .. He said nothing about anything else that saves us.

 

[SeaBass]

This is exactly what false teachers teach. False teachers use Acts 22:16 as they do with Acts 2:38 and other "proof-texts". In light of all of the rest of the New Testament's teaching on this subject,it is a known fact (because Scripture interprets Scripture) that this verse means that Paul's sins were washed away when he called upon the name of the Lord and not when he was baptized (Romans 10:13).

False teachers ignore, change, pervert Acts 22:16 and Acts 2:38 to try and get the necessity of water baptism out of the bible to change the bible to fit their personal opinion.

Being baptized is calling upon the name of the Lord.

Acts 2:21 Peer quoted Joel's prophecy "And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved."

This was fulfilled in verse 38:

Acts 2:21---------call upon the name of the Lord>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>saved
Acts 2:38---------repent and be baptized>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>remission of sins.


Since "saved" and "remission of sins" are equivalent, and there is just one way to be saved, then "call upon the name of the Lord" is equivalent to "repent and be baptized.

 

[JeremiahJr]

Obviously, there are many constituents to the status of being in God's grace. Repentance is an absolutely essential element, and without it one's baptism is all wet, grace is not obtained and faith is meaningless. Christ DID, indeed, speak of at least one other requirement to salvation. Read Matthew 19:16-19 to see what it is.

 

[faroukfarouk]

False teachers ignore, change, pervert Acts 22:16 and Acts 2:38 to try and get the necessity of water baptism out of the bible to change the bible to fit their personal opinion.

Being baptized is calling upon the name of the Lord.

Acts 2:21 Peer quoted Joel's prophecy "And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved."

This was fulfilled in verse 38:

Acts 2:21---------call upon the name of the Lord>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>saved
Acts 2:38---------repent and be baptized>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>remission of sins.


Since "saved" and "remission of sins" are equivalent, and there is just one way to be saved, then "call upon the name of the Lord" is equivalent to "repent and be baptized.

So if I just say 'I repent' and get dunked, this automatically makes me a Christian? automatically causes the new birth to occur? Really?

 

[SeaBass]

Believer's baptism (by immersion) is an ORDINANCE of the Church. It is NOT a requirement for salvation. It ALWAYS FOLLOWS salvation. We get baptized BECAUSE we are saved, not IN ORDER TO get saved. Don't put the cart before the horse.

The Ethiopian eunuch:

Acts 8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
Acts 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
Acts 8:38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

The Philippian jailor:

Acts 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Acts 16:32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.
Acts 16:33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.

The requirement for baptism is repentance and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ....as seen in the case of the Ethiopian eunuch and the Philipppian jailor (and his house). The Word is preached, people BELIEVE, and believer's baptism FOLLOWS....in that order.

Both the eunuch and jailer were baptized. So they prove my point.

The order of verses like Mk 16:16; Acts 2:38 put baptized BEFORE saved/remission of sins, not AFTER.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Both the eunuch and jailer were baptized. So they prove my point.

The order of verses like Mk 16:16; Acts 2:38 put baptized BEFORE saved/remission of sins, not AFTER.

'For' can be translated 'on account of'; it's as a testimony and as a symbol of the faith that already exists. Acts 2.41 ('they that gladly received his word were baptised') and the account of the Philippian jailer in Acts 16 ('believing with all his house') make this clear.

 

[Alligator]

baptism had nothing to do with salvation in Old Testament times. Baptism represents the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ as explained in Romans 6:3–4. It is only after the death of Christ that baptism was required for salvation.
Please give me the scripture that says the household of Cornelius were saved prior to being water baptized.

And you could be speaking of yourself, also.

No one has said that we should disobey God. Water does not save you - water does not give birth to a new creation in you - water does not give birth to the spirit that dwells within you. Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? The only way the Spirit of God can dwell within you is to be born again of the Spirit. = That which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

You are right about one thing. There is no saving power in water. The question is, when are we saved when do we come in contact with the blood of Christ.Galatians 3:26-27English Standard Version (ESV)
26 for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

 

[SeaBass]

Baptism is a figure, a symbol, a picture. Baptism is not a part of salvation; it is symbolic of salvation. We are saved, not by water going over our bodies, but by faith in the resurrection of Jesus Christ. If you believe that water baptism is necessary for salvation, think again.

1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Water baptism has never saved a soul. It is the blood of Jesus Christ that saves.

1 Peter 1:18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
1 Peter 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

There is no redemption or remission of sin in water baptism.

Peter plainly says "..baptism doth also now save us..."

You are simply trying to change the letter "w" in the word "now" to a "t" and get Peter to say the exact opposite of what he actually did say.

Peter: baptism is for remission of sins > Acts 2:38
Linda70: no remission of sin in baptism > personal bias

 

[SeaBass]

no Because we be saved by God"s grace n not because of our effort amen. King James Bible Rome 10:10
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
amen

Mk 16:16; Jn 3:5; Acts 2:38; 1 Cor 1:12,13; Col 2:12-14; Rom 6:3-5; Gal 3:27; 1 Cor 1:12;13 etc all say baptism saves.

 

[SeaBass]

are you sure? cause some say I'm not truly saved until I have been baptized in water. Even though I speak with the tongues of angels and I have laid my hands on the sick and in Jesus name they were healed and set free. Did I miss something, I meant how does one go about being baptized, is it a big ceremony where you invite family and friends or is it something done alone. Is it special water or just plain stuff from the spigot. I'm trying to understand cause I don't want to go hell.

Because in water baptism (not faith only) one is buried into the death of Christ where he shed His blood, Jn 19:34, that washes away sins, Rev 1:5.

 

[posthuman]

if i go swimming or take a bath, am i taking the name of the Lord in vain?

or is it not H20 that saves, but The Elect One?



look, we're told to be baptized. if you only understand that as a physical dunking, OK, one day you will understand better, but obey the command. don't think it's the commands themselves that saves you, but the one that first commanded you. just as a mikvah can't condemn you to hell, but the Lord has authority to do so, it's Christ who preserves you, not a pond.