Don't Mix law & Grace

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K

KennethC

Guest
#81
Question: Can you REALLY love your neighbor and your enemy when you feel you are doing it "out of obedience" because you were ordered to do it?
It once again is not done because of the obedience, it is done because of our love for God that produces that obedience.

The bible speaks on how our faith in Christ hangs on love, because it shows that those who do not love but hate others do not have eternal life abiding in them and do not know God.

For Apostle John he even says you can not say you love God but hate another, as that also shows no truth is in you !!!
 
Feb 7, 2015
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#82
You're still speaking of doing this "loving" out of obedience.

Frankly, I do not love you. Nor do I love about two dozen other people on here. (Actually often have a hard time just tolerating you guys.) BUT I CAN sometimes see why Jesus loves you, and I can feel a little tiny bit of the love Jesus must see if I really spend time asking Him to help me see. But I cannot do it just because I figure I should obey.

And I would have to doubt the honesty of anyone who says they do....... since I read my computer screen, and can see it is not so.
 
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KennethC

Guest
#83
You're still speaking of doing this "loving" out of obedience.

Frankly, I do not love you. Nor do I love about two dozen other people on here. (Actually often have a hard time just tolerating you guys.) BUT I CAN sometimes see why Jesus loves you, and I can feel a little tiny bit of the love Jesus must see if I really spend time asking Him to help me see. But I cannot do it just because I figure I should obey.

And I would have to doubt the honesty of anyone who says they do....... since I read my computer screen, and can see it is not so.

Well that is your choice Willie-T but Jesus, Paul, James, and John all show the dangers to not show love, forgiveness, and mercy to others. The bible clearly says that the Truth is not in you, and eternal life does not abide in you if you do not love !!!

1 John 4:20

If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
 
Feb 7, 2015
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#84
Well that is your choice Willie-T but Jesus, Paul, James, and John all show the dangers to not show love, forgiveness, and mercy to others. The bible clearly says that the Truth is not in you, and eternal life does not abide in you if you do not love !!!

1 John 4:20

If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
Like I said.... it's a big boat, and I see many of you sitting right across from me..... claiming all this love that never seems to show in your writing.
 
L

ladylynn

Guest
#85
I don't watch to much of Joseph Prince because I have seen some of his sermons in the past where he was teaching falsely.
He said for one that the Holy Spirit does not convict people of sins which is completely unbiblical.

When we are talking about the 613 written ordinances of the Mosaic law and not mixing it with the new covenant of Grace, then I would agree with him on that extent.

However we must learn to discern that the bible speaks of 2 laws;
One being the written ordinances of the Mosaic laws, and the other is perfect law of liberty (law of Christ).

The perfect law of liberty does apply in the new covenant and those commands are this;
Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, and mind

Love your neighbor as yourself

By believing in Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior and obeying those two commands will uphold the 10 moral commands of God and will lead one in obedience to follow the rest of the Lords teachings/commands (Romans 13:9-11). If somebody is telling the 10 commandments do not apply under the new covenant then I would suggest to look for a new church or instructor, because I can show you a lot of places the 10 commandments are upheld in the NT !!!

I try and read each persons post but it seems not everyone does this. :confused: I've answered the same questions more than once. If you read my previous posts, you would see that we as believers do in fact follow the law but it is in our hearts., not just an outward performance but an inward change. The law cannot change anyone. It has no power to change anyone. If you want an answer to your questions, you will see they have already been answered in posts before this one. post #61

As far as Joseph Prince, he preaches and I am in agreement that the Holy Spirit convicts the believer of righteousness . John 16:8 And He when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin, and righteousness and judgment. We are pointed to Christ all the time, to behold Him when we sin we are to change our minds to see the righteousness of Christ. Heb.12:12 (this is another topic about being forgiven of all sins past present and future by the blood of Christ)

It takes faith to believe God sees us in Christ.,that we are righteous in Him. That God no longer sees us in our sins. "For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more" Heb.8:12 How is that possible??

Fixing our eyes on Jesus is the only way to do this. Heb.12:2 Looking away from all that would distract to Jesus, Who is the leader and the Source of our faith (giving the first incentive for our belief) and is also it's Finisher (bringing it to maturity and perfection) Amplified Bible

Romans 13:9-11 tells us that when we follow Christ's law we will be fulfilling all of the law. see post #61




 
K

KennethC

Guest
#86
Like I said.... it's a big boat, and I see many of you sitting right across from me..... claiming all this love that never seems to show in your writing.

Do not speak for me and say I am not showing love, because God's word shows that if we love others we will give them the Truth in God's word. Not let them walk around in false teaching, and 1 John chapters 2 through 4 are good passages that need to be read about our walk in the faith. For it lets believers know if they are saved or not !!!
 
K

KennethC

Guest
#87
I try and read each persons post but it seems not everyone does this. :confused: I've answered the same questions more than once. If you read my previous posts, you would see that we as believers do in fact follow the law but it is in our hearts., not just an outward performance but an inward change. The law cannot change anyone. It has no power to change anyone. If you want an answer to your questions, you will see they have already been answered in posts before this one. post #61

As far as Joseph Prince, he preaches and I am in agreement that the Holy Spirit convicts the believer of righteousness . John 16:8 And He when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin, and righteousness and judgment. We are pointed to Christ all the time, to behold Him when we sin we are to change our minds to see the righteousness of Christ. Heb.12:12 (this is another topic about being forgiven of all sins past present and future by the blood of Christ)

It takes faith to believe God sees us in Christ.,that we are righteous in Him. That God no longer sees us in our sins. "For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more" Heb.8:12 How is that possible??

Fixing our eyes on Jesus is the only way to do this. Heb.12:2 Looking away from all that would distract to Jesus, Who is the leader and the Source of our faith (giving the first incentive for our belief) and is also it's Finisher (bringing it to maturity and perfection) Amplified Bible

Romans 13:9-11 tells us that when we follow Christ's law we will be fulfilling all of the law. see post #61

Once again though the perfect law of liberty (law of Christ) does not speak on the 613 written ordinances of the Mosaic laws, because scriptures such as in Acts 15, and Colossians 2:14 show they were done away with and do not have to be obeyed by new covenant believers.

The other thing is that the bible shows nowhere that future sins are automatically forgiven, as Paul (Romans 3:25) and Peter (2 Peter 1:9) show only past sins have been forgiven. Then Apostle John shows in 1 John 1:7, 1:9, 2:1 that only by continuing to walk in the faith and confess of those future sins are they forgiven.

Joseph Prince in the sermon I watched said that the Holy Spirit doesn't convict us of sins, that is completely against what the bible says. For it shows that when we sin we will be chastised by the Lord to correct us, and that chastising comes by the Holy Spirit convicting our heart of the wrong we did..
 
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ladylynn

Guest
#88
You're still speaking of doing this "loving" out of obedience.

Frankly, I do not love you. Nor do I love about two dozen other people on here. (Actually often have a hard time just tolerating you guys.) BUT I CAN sometimes see why Jesus loves you, and I can feel a little tiny bit of the love Jesus must see if I really spend time asking Him to help me see. But I cannot do it just because I figure I should obey.

And I would have to doubt the honesty of anyone who says they do....... since I read my computer screen, and can see it is not so.


HAHAHAHA LOL Willie-T!!!! It does take time to learn how to love people I agree. And most of us are good at just doing the outward appearances not really feeling it. And some not even good at hiding their unloving emotions. But He promises to change us from the inside out. I agree with you that most of us do not exhibit this love to one another but that is because we have not been getting our minds as renewed as we should. We (too often) fall back on that old nature behavior because we are so accustomed to it. But He takes us from glory to glory, faith to faith., and we are truly "transformed" by the renewing of our minds to be able to "do" this kind of loving and serving.

These will be lessons we will be learning for the rest of our lives as we have faith in His promises to do these things and take time beholding Jesus each day. I do not know how God could love us the way He does we are so odious!!!! But then it shows how much we don't understand about God and His love and grace. That kind of love makes no human sense but we sure do need it and take it.

1 John 4:18-19 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love. We love Him because He first loved us.

Knowing we love God ONLY because He first loved us is major. There is no such sweetness in us except what God puts in there.
 
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Jun 23, 2015
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#89
Ken,

The holy Spirit convicts unbelievers of one sin........unbelief.

He convicts the believer of nothing.





He grieves for us or we quench Him.

We are under no mandates to "love" God, or "love" your neighbor.

The christian is to be filled with the Spirit, walk in the Spirit, do not grieve or quench the Spirit. If we follow these mandates(The only mandates for Christians) we fulfill ALL, ALL,ALL of what God expects from us. The moment we grieve or quench the Spirit............we are following NONE of what God expects from us.

I am not very eloquent or good with words, but if we are walking around thinking " I need to love God and my fellow man!" we probably have the Spirit quenched. If we were in the Spirit, we would just be doing it.

I think a Bible study is in order :)


The Holy Spirit does convict the sinner to repentance. The Holy Spirit draws them unto himself for salvation.

John 16:8 (NEB) "When he [the Holy Spirit] comes, he will convict the world, and show where right and wrong and judgment lie. He will convict them of wrong.

But the Holy Spirit also convicts the child of Christ . He guides and teached whether it be of right thinking or wrong. He doesnt ever quit guiding a child of Christ!

John 16:13 (Phi) "Yet when that one I have spoken to you about comes--the Spirit of truth--he will guide you into everything that is true."


You said we are under no mandate to love God or our neighbor. So what was the greatest commandment of all? And the second greatest ?

Matthew 22:37-38

37And He said to him, "'YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.' 38"This is the great and foremost commandment. 39"The second is like it, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.'…

And to reply to the last thing you said about being in the spirit:

I do not know one man alive now or ever that has ever fulfilled all for more than a split second! We strive for righteousness and holiness but I do not think anyone ever achieves it 100%. As the saying goes" I am going to die trying" :)

1John 2:29If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one also that doeth righteousness is begotten of him.
If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one also that doeth righteousness is begotten of him.


Proverbs 15:9
The LORD detests the way of the wicked, but he loves those who
pursue righteousness.

I understand what you are trying to say in your last few sentences. I dont think anyone was saying that or at least I am not. That would be robotic wouldnt it? But there are days when we have to stop and reevaluate and pray and REPENT because we are not acting as a loving righteous child of God. We all quench the spirit when we fail to obey. Noone human is exempt.

We are all in a diff place in the journey of santification. Its simply not profitable to think that all have acheived victory over their flesh and their thoughts and everything else!

"if you say that you do not sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in you....1John 1:8

We are spirit but in FLESH. Our flesh is constantly warring against the spirit. We will not be free from this dilema until we are glorified in Christ. We are all still being sanctified.

We are being molded like clay. Our flesh and out thoughts are the problem.

That is why God tells us to sow towards the spirit and not the flesh.

2 Corinthians 10:4-5
4for the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh, but divinely powerful for the destruction of fortresses. 5We are destroying speculations and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God, and we are taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ,


Galatians 5:17For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do.

Galatians 6: 7,8,9…
7Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap. 8For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life. 9Let us not lose heart in doing good, for in due time we will reap if we do not grow weary.…


May the Holy Spirit continue to teach us the word and how to walk in perfect peace and love. May God lead us out of false teaching if need be. Amen
 
K

KennethC

Guest
#90
HAHAHAHA LOL Willie-T!!!! It does take time to learn how to love people I agree. And most of us are good at just doing the outward appearances not really feeling it. And some not even good at hiding their unloving emotions. But He promises to change us from the inside out. I agree with you that most of us do not exhibit this love to one another but that is because we have not been getting our minds as renewed as we should. We (too often) fall back on that old nature behavior because we are so accustomed to it. But He takes us from glory to glory, faith to faith., and we are truly "transformed" by the renewing of our minds to be able to "do" this kind of loving and serving.

These will be lessons we will be learning for the rest of our lives as we have faith in His promises to do these things and take time beholding Jesus each day. I do not know how God could love us the way He does we are so odious!!!! But then it shows how much we don't understand about God and His love and grace. That kind of love makes no human sense but we sure do need it and take it.

1 John 4:18-19 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love. We love Him because He first loved us.

Knowing we love God ONLY because He first loved us is major. There is no such sweetness in us except what God puts in there.

The thing on this to though is that if a person is showing another truth from God's word, just because they may not like what it says does not mean the person who gave them that truth is being unloving.

Did Paul use nice soothing words all the time?
No he didn't as he constantly warned believers of how they are walking and where that will lead them if they continue that way. This is not a popular teaching now days as it makes people look at themselves and face their sins they are still continuing to serve and obey. But Paul and James both use very convicting teachings in their epistles about continuing to serve sin/flesh over serving the Lord and walking in the Spirit !!!
 
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ladylynn

Guest
#91
The thing on this to though is that if a person is showing another truth from God's word, just because they may not like what it says does not mean the person who gave them that truth is being unloving.

Did Paul use nice soothing words all the time?
No he didn't as he constantly warned believers of how they are walking and where that will lead them if they continue that way. This is not a popular teaching now days as it makes people look at themselves and face their sins they are still continuing to serve and obey. But Paul and James both use very convicting teachings in their epistles about continuing to serve sin/flesh over serving the Lord and walking in the Spirit !!!
Unfortunately pride is a major problem with us all. Let's face it, people find it much easier to see the bad in others before they see any good and then find it even easier to correct others than to correct themselves.

I'm reminded of that vs about when we think we stand, be careful because we are then ripe to fall flat on our faces. :eek: And too often especially on these forums, when people say they are hurting us because they "love" us... we do not take it to heart. ;)

As humans we do soooo enjoy getting puffed up and patted on the back for our stellar writings and posts. Thee OL Gotcha - thing is going on quite often around here. I think the Holy Spirit can do the convicting quite well when it comes to getting us believers on the right track. He doesn't need us pounding our ideas on others "in love" when we have not established any sort of love relationship before.

I see the Holy Spirit constantly warning us to believe and have faith in God. To build one another up in the faith... that love covers a multitude of sin., It's the love of God that draws people in.
John 3:16 Even children come close to Jesus because they know love when they see it. We are told to come as little children.

We each have Bibles here (most of us do) and we have the HolySpirit in us to teach us. I don't see how being mean or sarcastic benefits us here. It is a temptation and each of us fall into it at times. But I think it's best not to try and stamp ourselves with the title of mini holy spirits. He doesn't need us to convict fellow believers. We stink at that job but we think we are good at it.

Like that verse about taking the log out of our own eye before taking the splinter out of our brothers. That is spoken to all of us. God has a sense of humor!! :D
 
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KennethC

Guest
#92
Unfortunately pride is a major problem with us all. Let's face it, people find it much easier to see the bad in others before they see any good and then find it even easier to correct others than to correct themselves.

I'm reminded of that vs about when we think we stand, be careful because we are then ripe to fall flat on our faces. :eek: And too often especially on these forums, when people say they are hurting us because they "love" us... we do not take it to heart. ;)

As humans we do soooo enjoy getting puffed up and patted on the back for our stellar writings and posts. Thee OL Gotcha - thing is going on quite often around here. I think the Holy Spirit can do the convicting quite well when it comes to getting us believers on the right track. He doesn't need us pounding our ideas on others "in love" when we have not established any sort of love relationship before.

I see the Holy Spirit constantly warning us to believe and have faith in God. To build one another up in the faith... that love covers a multitude of sin., It's the love of God that draws people in.
John 3:16 Even children come close to Jesus because they know love when they see it. We are told to come as little children.

We each have Bibles here (most of us do) and we have the HolySpirit in us to teach us. I don't see how being mean or sarcastic benefits us here. It is a temptation and each of us fall into it at times. But I think it's best not to try and stamp ourselves with the title of mini holy spirits. He doesn't need us to convict fellow believers. We stink at that job but we think we are good at it.

Like that verse about taking the log out of our own eye before taking the splinter out of our brothers. That is spoken to all of us. God has a sense of humor!! :D

Well I would agree with you when it comes to some, but I do face my own faults all the time when I backslide and commit a sin again.

I do not try and hide my faults as some do and then point out the faults of others as some do, for I have handled the plank in my own eye. And the scripture says clearly when you have handled and admitted your own sins then you can take and work on others to handle theirs.

Some do not like that rebuking and reproving that the bible clearly gives us the right to do, as Jesus and Paul both tell us how to deal with a sinning brother or sister. I do not go around condemning anybody, but I do use the scriptures in the bible to show how it says to another what they are doing is from the flesh and not the fruits of the Spirit.

Love does cover a multitude of sin and that is because for one if you are walking in love then you would have no urge to do wrong to self or others. Therefore there would be no fear of committing sin, then the other is that by love showing another how they continue to walk improperly in the faith and turn them from that way you have saved their soul from death. (James 5:19-20)

I am not being mean or sarcastic so I do not know why you even said that, because nowhere do I ever get hateful or use name calling toward others. Like I said if somebody posts a scripture that another disagrees with, that is not being mean toward that person but instead by love it is showing God's truth to them. Because when we love others we will not let them walk in a false teaching, but instead will try and help them by showing them the truth in God's word.

Why would you think it to be mean to show another love by giving God's truth in how to walk in the faith ???
 
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Gr8grace

Guest
#93
Question: Can you REALLY love your neighbor and your enemy when you feel you are doing it "out of obedience" because you were ordered to do it?
Willie....................................................................................................right on!
 
K

KennethC

Guest
#94
[h=1]Matthew 18:15-17[/h][h=3]Dealing with a Sinning Brother[/h]15 “Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. 16 But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that ‘by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’[a] 17 And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.



Then take and read the parallel passage from the Apostle Paul in 1 Corinthians 5 !!!
 
G

Gr8grace

Guest
#95
I think a Bible study is in order :)


The Holy Spirit does convict the sinner to repentance. The Holy Spirit draws them unto himself for salvation.

John 16:8 (NEB) "When he [the Holy Spirit] comes, he will convict the world, and show where right and wrong and judgment lie. He will convict them of wrong.

But the Holy Spirit also convicts the child of Christ . He guides and teached whether it be of right thinking or wrong. He doesnt ever quit guiding a child of Christ!

John 16:13 (Phi) "Yet when that one I have spoken to you about comes--the Spirit of truth--he will guide you into everything that is true."


You said we are under no mandate to love God or our neighbor. So what was the greatest commandment of all? And the second greatest ?

Matthew 22:37-38

37And He said to him, "'YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.' 38"This is the great and foremost commandment. 39"The second is like it, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.'…

And to reply to the last thing you said about being in the spirit:

I do not know one man alive now or ever that has ever fulfilled all for more than a split second! We strive for righteousness and holiness but I do not think anyone ever achieves it 100%. As the saying goes" I am going to die trying" :)

1John 2:29If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one also that doeth righteousness is begotten of him.
If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one also that doeth righteousness is begotten of him.


Proverbs 15:9
The LORD detests the way of the wicked, but he loves those who
pursue righteousness.

I understand what you are trying to say in your last few sentences. I dont think anyone was saying that or at least I am not. That would be robotic wouldnt it? But there are days when we have to stop and reevaluate and pray and REPENT because we are not acting as a loving righteous child of God. We all quench the spirit when we fail to obey. Noone human is exempt.

We are all in a diff place in the journey of santification. Its simply not profitable to think that all have acheived victory over their flesh and their thoughts and everything else!

"if you say that you do not sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in you....1John 1:8

We are spirit but in FLESH. Our flesh is constantly warring against the spirit. We will not be free from this dilema until we are glorified in Christ. We are all still being sanctified.

We are being molded like clay. Our flesh and out thoughts are the problem.

That is why God tells us to sow towards the spirit and not the flesh.

2 Corinthians 10:4-5
4for the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh, but divinely powerful for the destruction of fortresses. 5We are destroying speculations and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God, and we are taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ,


Galatians 5:17For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do.

Galatians 6: 7,8,9…
7Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap. 8For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life. 9Let us not lose heart in doing good, for in due time we will reap if we do not grow weary.…


May the Holy Spirit continue to teach us the word and how to walk in perfect peace and love. May God lead us out of false teaching if need be. Amen
I completely understand where you are coming from.


Answer me this, please.

If we are not quenching or grieving the Spirit and we are walking and filled with the Spirit..................would we need to know how to follow God or would we just be doing it?
 
K

KennethC

Guest
#96
I completely understand where you are coming from.


Answer me this, please.

If we are not quenching or grieving the Spirit and we are walking and filled with the Spirit..................would we need to know how to follow God or would we just be doing it?

I know this was not directed at me but I wanted to answer if that is okay..........

The Holy Spirit guides us to walk in the fruits of love, mercy, kindness, joy, peace, faithfulness, self-control, and longsuffering.
This is mentioned by the Apostle Paul in Galatians 5, and he says that against those who walk this way there is no law. This is because none of those fruits will lead to sinful acts, and Paul states the law was made only for those who transgress it !!!

This is how we are to walk in the faith and the Holy Spirit will help us in this journey as long as we continue in the faith and do not return to our sinful ways to where they control our life again.

Free will is never taken away from the person rather a believer or not, so a person always has the choice to continue in the faith or turn away from God !!!
 
S

senzi

Guest
#97
The heart of Gods laws exist under grace, but not on tablets of stone, but rather on tablets of human hearts(2cor3:3)
The penalty for breaking that law is removed from the christian, for in their heart they want to obey, but the flesh does not.
When the flesh wins the heart is grieved. That is the punishment now if you like for a believers sin. They have no rest, no peace, only deep unhappiness when they turn from the law on their heart to the flesh. That law is fulfilled by love, working through faith. When we look away from in our hearts trusting our saviour, we suffer as people in our consciences and our lives
 
Jun 23, 2015
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#98
I completely understand where you are coming from.


Answer me this, please.

If we are not quenching or grieving the Spirit and we are walking and filled with the Spirit..................would we need to know how to follow God or would we just be doing it?
I dont follow you. Can you clarify what exactly you are asking?
 
Jun 23, 2015
1,990
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#99
That is wrong for the bible shows that every time a person sins they grieve the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 4:30), and in Hebrews 12:5-7 is shows that believers when they sin are chastised by the Lord. This is done by the Holy Spirit who dwells in us, and it says if you do not feel that chastising then you are not sons/born again believers.

What do you think walking in the Spirit means ???

It means that you walk by the fruits of the Spirit and the greatest fruit is love, and again read Romans 13:9-11 where the Apostle Paul shows clearly that by love all the teachings and commands of the Lord will be upheld, including the 10 commandments which are God's moral commands.

The commands that the Lord gave as the two greatest commands do apply under the new covenant, and like I said I can show you many places the 10 commandments are upheld in the new covenant. So once again if you are being taught they do not then you need to find another instructor !!!
Amen! The Father only chastens those whom are his children.
 
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Cruisyazz

Guest
I get how when we begin looking at the person or the grand structures of the churches it can be difficult. But when I did that it showed me I was not listening to the message, I was looking at the messenger. Tons of Christians do that and totally miss the message.

People tag on labels on other people and it destroys their credibility. I find that so wrong. We can't just label people without hearing them out. And if we don't have time to listen to them, then it's best not to find fault based on limited information. Big churches have their place, and so do small ones and medium size ones. Or just meeting in each others houses. There is a place and a situation they fit into.

Trying to figure out why another Christian bought a $500 pair of shoes or a $600,000 home, or why someone didn't give a tip... or why someone moved into a bigger house when the one they had looked perfectly fine.... tons of things people do or don't do that we could judge.

I once went to a restaurant and didn't have any money for a tip. We had a large meal and no money for a tip! Had to leave to be at an appt. so couldn't talk to the waitress. Now I know that waitress was insulted., and for the time before I could get back to give her a tip, she would think ill of me.

There are so many reasons people do not meet our expectations and we must extend grace or we will be forever disappointed in people.

As far as God being found through other religions., you know that it's Jesus that saves and not religion.
If the religion doesn't have Jesus as the only way to God it doesn't matter how sincere that religion is.
They are sincerely wrong and it won't get them acceptance before God and we have to tell them about Jesus. :eek:
Can I ask though do you think God would approve of all that? Honestly?

What is expected of a Christian? That they love God and love there neighbour as themselves? Think about loving your neighbour as yourself. If we all did this, there is no rich or poor or status etc... It would be something completely different to what the world has on offer.

Btw true, does not matter how sincere a religion is, it does matter how sincere a man's heart is though