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Then we both beg to differ, the scripture you post has to deal directly with 1st coming of Christ and beings of His church, as Peter eluded to in his sermon at pentecost. Seeing a miracle does not define a live or make a dead church alive, BLESSED are those who believe without a sign given. You know, Satan can deceive many in thinking that all supernatural manifestations are from God. I to believe God can do everything but I also believe God chooses to do nothing or let things be, or to just let things run there coarse. I don't need my spirituality to be defined or puffed up by out of the ordinary experiences.
P
i dont often dream but when i do, i'm normally hiding from the police or running from them. Maybe its cos i am a prison convert. and god's reminding of the depth he brought me from. I wake up and I'm free, no police, feels great, reminds me of his grace. I don't understand why god would lead one of his own into confusion. But i know nothing.
Apparently Jesus thought supernatural experiences were needed. I would trust His words any day, especially since He spoke about it when He gave the Great Commission.
Mark 16:15-18 [SUP]15 [/SUP]And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. [SUP]16 [/SUP]He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. [SUP]17 [/SUP]And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; [SUP]18 [/SUP]They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
The early church even prayed for it:
Acts 4:29-31 [SUP]29 [/SUP]And now, Lord, behold their threatenings: and grant unto thy servants, that with all boldness they may speak thy word, [SUP]30 [/SUP]By stretching forth thine hand to heal; and that signs and wonders may be done by the name of thy holy child Jesus. [SUP]31 [/SUP]And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.
Other verses which back this:
Hebrews 2:3-4 [SUP]3 [/SUP]How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; [SUP]4 [/SUP]God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?
2 Corinthians 12:12 [SUP]12 [/SUP]Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds.
Romans 15:19 [SUP]19 [/SUP]Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.
Acts 14:3 [SUP]3 [/SUP]Long time therefore abode they speaking boldly in the Lord, which gave testimony unto the word of his grace, and granted signs and wonders to be done by their hands.
Acts 5:12 [SUP]12 [/SUP]And by the hands of the apostles were many signs and wonders wrought among the people; (and they were all with one accord in Solomon's porch.
Acts 2:43 [SUP]43 [/SUP]And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.
Acts 6:8 [SUP]8 [/SUP]And Stephen, full of faith and power, did great wonders and miracles among the people.
Acts 8:5-7 [SUP]5 [/SUP]Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria, and preached Christ unto them. [SUP]6 [/SUP]And the people with one accord gave heed unto those things which Philip spake, hearing and seeing the miracles which he did. [SUP]7 [/SUP]For unclean spirits, crying with loud voice, came out of many that were possessed with them: and many taken with palsies, and that were lame, were healed.
Satan's supernatural manifestations usually have one thing in common: they don't edify. They don't build up the body of Christ. They don't increase faith. They just make you long for more manifestations that have no spiritual value.
Mark 16:15-18 [SUP]15 [/SUP]And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. [SUP]16 [/SUP]He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. [SUP]17 [/SUP]And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; [SUP]18 [/SUP]They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
The early church even prayed for it:
Acts 4:29-31 [SUP]29 [/SUP]And now, Lord, behold their threatenings: and grant unto thy servants, that with all boldness they may speak thy word, [SUP]30 [/SUP]By stretching forth thine hand to heal; and that signs and wonders may be done by the name of thy holy child Jesus. [SUP]31 [/SUP]And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.
Other verses which back this:
Hebrews 2:3-4 [SUP]3 [/SUP]How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; [SUP]4 [/SUP]God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?
2 Corinthians 12:12 [SUP]12 [/SUP]Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds.
Romans 15:19 [SUP]19 [/SUP]Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.
Acts 14:3 [SUP]3 [/SUP]Long time therefore abode they speaking boldly in the Lord, which gave testimony unto the word of his grace, and granted signs and wonders to be done by their hands.
Acts 5:12 [SUP]12 [/SUP]And by the hands of the apostles were many signs and wonders wrought among the people; (and they were all with one accord in Solomon's porch.
Acts 2:43 [SUP]43 [/SUP]And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.
Acts 6:8 [SUP]8 [/SUP]And Stephen, full of faith and power, did great wonders and miracles among the people.
Acts 8:5-7 [SUP]5 [/SUP]Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria, and preached Christ unto them. [SUP]6 [/SUP]And the people with one accord gave heed unto those things which Philip spake, hearing and seeing the miracles which he did. [SUP]7 [/SUP]For unclean spirits, crying with loud voice, came out of many that were possessed with them: and many taken with palsies, and that were lame, were healed.
Satan's supernatural manifestations usually have one thing in common: they don't edify. They don't build up the body of Christ. They don't increase faith. They just make you long for more manifestations that have no spiritual value.
M
i'm usually trying to get away from something thats chasing me, usually some kind of animal or beast. sometimes i'll kinda make my way to a high point, i.e. tree or roof top but sometimes i'll actualy take flight but it seems the higher i try to go, i'm impeded by a grid of electrical wiring like power lines but they're like criss crossed and the higher i go, the closer they get together and i'm afraid to go any higher. This type of dream shows that you are being pursued by evil spirits, but you know to look up and aim for a higher spiritual realm in which to seek refuge, where there is Great Power. This dream is given so that you can know to ASK GOD for His Higher Power with which to not only fight, but to have a more heavenly perspective so that you can fulfill the destiny that God has created you for. (Also ask Him "Why?" these things have a right to pursue you so that you can remedy that part of your spiritual life.)
another i have is about seeing tornado's. now, i've never been in one or even seen one in person, but i'll have a dream where a tornado, or sometimes several tornado's come extremely close to me. i never get caught up in one but like i said, they'll get uncomfortably close. i'll usually be hiding behind a wall or in a building and i will watch them pass but never get injured or whatever by them....i know this topic isn't a "bible study" topic but this is usually where i post....In dreams, the coloring of a tornado has relevance; dark tornados are metaphors for stormy/turbulent situations headed your way; Whitish colored tornados are metaphors for powerful moves of God, and although participation might be uncomfortable for a time, it is an awesome thing to be a part of. SO...if your tornados are dark, then God is showing you that there are troubled times ahead so that you can pray accordingly, asking for strategy as to how to 'weather the storm'. If they are of the whitish nature, then He is showing that He is about to do something BIG and Powerful and it is an invitation to get involved.
Hope this helps!
Maggie
another i have is about seeing tornado's. now, i've never been in one or even seen one in person, but i'll have a dream where a tornado, or sometimes several tornado's come extremely close to me. i never get caught up in one but like i said, they'll get uncomfortably close. i'll usually be hiding behind a wall or in a building and i will watch them pass but never get injured or whatever by them....i know this topic isn't a "bible study" topic but this is usually where i post....In dreams, the coloring of a tornado has relevance; dark tornados are metaphors for stormy/turbulent situations headed your way; Whitish colored tornados are metaphors for powerful moves of God, and although participation might be uncomfortable for a time, it is an awesome thing to be a part of. SO...if your tornados are dark, then God is showing you that there are troubled times ahead so that you can pray accordingly, asking for strategy as to how to 'weather the storm'. If they are of the whitish nature, then He is showing that He is about to do something BIG and Powerful and it is an invitation to get involved.
Hope this helps!
Maggie
J
I've been having dreams all my life. some very vivid. But here recently looking over my life it came to me that in my dreams I was always afraid of something.
fear was my main feeling. so I figured that since our brains keep ticking while we are sleeping trying to deal with problems that are in our lives that we didn't deal with while we was awake, I come to the conclusion that I live in fear. Fear of change, fear of not being accepted, fear of not being enough for some people.
So, this is something that I am trying to dissect and with GOD's help, HEAL.
fear was my main feeling. so I figured that since our brains keep ticking while we are sleeping trying to deal with problems that are in our lives that we didn't deal with while we was awake, I come to the conclusion that I live in fear. Fear of change, fear of not being accepted, fear of not being enough for some people.
So, this is something that I am trying to dissect and with GOD's help, HEAL.
M
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]FromAbiding: “dream interpretation is not biblical...Jesus never taughtit nor the Apostles[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]butid bet you wont believe me. Why cant God give you a dream youunderstand?[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Tooeasy or somptin? [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Dreaminterpretation is all throughout the Bible. Use a concordance andlook up the words 'dream' and 'interpretation'. God DOES give usdreams that we CAN understand. If you look at the dreams in theBible, they are all metaphorical. Read them. Read theinterpretaitons, which are always given within a chapter or two.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Butsomeone will be here soon.. so prepare and try to remember all thecolors and stuff[/FONT] “ Abiding,your character is showing~~
Thisis WHY God Gives dreams*: Job 33[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]: [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]14 [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]ForGod speaketh once, yea twice, yet man perceiveth it not. [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mandoes not listen[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]15 Ina dream, in a vision of the night, when deep sleep falleth upon men,in slumberings upon the bed;[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Sowhen men are asleep (and can't talk back or disagree)[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]16 Thenhe openeth the ears of men, and sealeth their instruction, Hespeak instruction to their soul and spirit and seals it to them[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]17 Thathe may withdraw man from his purpose, and hide pride from man. ThatHe pull man out from his (man's) purpose and keep pride from findinghim[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]18 Hekeepeth back his soul from the pit, and his life from perishing bythe sword. And thereby keeping man's soul fromhell and his life from being ended before his time.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]*orsomething on that order.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]FromD_Z: [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Ionce had a dream that my pastor was digging a grave. It stuck with meand struck me as odd. Years later he was disgraced and ended hisrelationship with the Lord, as far as his actions go. Some dreams arejust dreams, others stick.[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]” God was showing you that your pastor was 'digging his own grave'which is a metaphor for 'doing himself harm/cutting his own throat'.That dream was given so that you could pray for your pastor to havewisdom and courage to seek the counsel of the Holy Spirit as well as(possibly) one or two peers which could stand with him in prayer andintercede for him. People that do not know that God is thegiver/allower of dreams do not know WHY they are given so don't feelguilty if you didn't pray for him.[/FONT]
Maggie
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]butid bet you wont believe me. Why cant God give you a dream youunderstand?[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Tooeasy or somptin? [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Dreaminterpretation is all throughout the Bible. Use a concordance andlook up the words 'dream' and 'interpretation'. God DOES give usdreams that we CAN understand. If you look at the dreams in theBible, they are all metaphorical. Read them. Read theinterpretaitons, which are always given within a chapter or two.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Butsomeone will be here soon.. so prepare and try to remember all thecolors and stuff[/FONT] “ Abiding,your character is showing~~
Thisis WHY God Gives dreams*: Job 33[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]: [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]14 [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]ForGod speaketh once, yea twice, yet man perceiveth it not. [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mandoes not listen[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]15 Ina dream, in a vision of the night, when deep sleep falleth upon men,in slumberings upon the bed;[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Sowhen men are asleep (and can't talk back or disagree)[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]16 Thenhe openeth the ears of men, and sealeth their instruction, Hespeak instruction to their soul and spirit and seals it to them[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]17 Thathe may withdraw man from his purpose, and hide pride from man. ThatHe pull man out from his (man's) purpose and keep pride from findinghim[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]18 Hekeepeth back his soul from the pit, and his life from perishing bythe sword. And thereby keeping man's soul fromhell and his life from being ended before his time.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]*orsomething on that order.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]FromD_Z: [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Ionce had a dream that my pastor was digging a grave. It stuck with meand struck me as odd. Years later he was disgraced and ended hisrelationship with the Lord, as far as his actions go. Some dreams arejust dreams, others stick.[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]” God was showing you that your pastor was 'digging his own grave'which is a metaphor for 'doing himself harm/cutting his own throat'.That dream was given so that you could pray for your pastor to havewisdom and courage to seek the counsel of the Holy Spirit as well as(possibly) one or two peers which could stand with him in prayer andintercede for him. People that do not know that God is thegiver/allower of dreams do not know WHY they are given so don't feelguilty if you didn't pray for him.[/FONT]
Maggie
D
Joel 2:28 clearly states that God can speak to us in our dreams, visions and prophecy. Even so, that does not mean that every dream is from God. Dreaming is normal and common to all humans. Demons can also influence dreams as dreams.
Dream interpretation is not mentioned in the new testament, but is mentioned several times in the Old Testament We do not see it listed as a distinct spiritual gift, even so that does not mean it does not exist. It may fall under the gift of prophecy. We know that Daniel was clearly a prophet of God and as prophet he saw visions and also gave the interpretation of dreams and also gave the interpretation of the hand writing on the wall. So this may mean that interpreting dreams and other omens from God is a subset of the gift of prophecy.
Even though Abiding is completely convinced that dream interpretation is only for pagans, I feel it is plausible, even for today. Even so I will concede I have not seen witnessed this and it is not mentioned in the New testament. God still communicates to us today and may use any means He desires.
D
Here is a link to an article that lists the top 10 most common dreams. Flying and being chased or on the list. So I doubt they are from God, but who knows? Far be it for me to declare that God can not send a dream and send someone to interpret that dream.
Top 10 Recurring Dreams
Top 10 Recurring Dreams
D
On the contrary kind sir.
Acts 2:17
"And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:"
Daniel interpreted a dream for the King of Babylon in the Old testament, that's pretty well known but there are a LOT of cases of dreams and the interpretations of them throughout the bible. NT and OT. I can't imagine why anybody would call it Pagan.
Acts 2:17
"And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:"
Daniel interpreted a dream for the King of Babylon in the Old testament, that's pretty well known but there are a LOT of cases of dreams and the interpretations of them throughout the bible. NT and OT. I can't imagine why anybody would call it Pagan.
There is a reason that in the new testament dreams are not mentioned. They are sometimes called visions. And Paul gets them at night too. Peter also in the midst of the day.
The general issue is in all of this: IS God still able to do such messages? Or isn't He.
And than next, what when it happens, how can one be sure it is from God, why should it happen etc.
Telling "it is not Biblical" is nonsense, but the source of the dream or vision must be God, and the message in it must be measured with the message in the Bible and be in agreement with it. And in a forum like this a person as source is already not really very transparent, clear. So how can anyone be sure than that the dream is from God...this is already an issue.
Also the devil did a great trick, by getting everywhere New Age stuff so people are scared for anything supernatural. And God Himself is Spirit and He is supernatural. To make a distinguish between what is God and what is from the Devil is for a lot of people not easy.
And next to that. A lot of churches, or should I say all churches
, teach traditions, BUT Jesus showed us that He had his usual ways (He went as He was used to the synagogue) but also very unusual. Putting mud on someones eyes should not be done by any pastor nowadays, he would be called an idiot. Still....it is NOT a sin to put mud on someones eyes nor is a dream (in agreement with the bible) a SIN.
People like pasterns, grids, ways that stick the same. That is why everyone looks for a church that suites them. Of course it is also about being Biblical, but it is not the only thing. We have all our glasses on of our background and culture and church when we read the Bible. If anyone says not, they are boasting that they can manage the Bible themselves. But we need the Spirit like the disciples.
For example I see every time on this forum the same sort of strategies and answers, it is done all over and over again. But sometimes the general point of just listening to each others heart is missed. When does the Spirit work, and when me, my flesh?
The general issue is in all of this: IS God still able to do such messages? Or isn't He.
And than next, what when it happens, how can one be sure it is from God, why should it happen etc.
Telling "it is not Biblical" is nonsense, but the source of the dream or vision must be God, and the message in it must be measured with the message in the Bible and be in agreement with it. And in a forum like this a person as source is already not really very transparent, clear. So how can anyone be sure than that the dream is from God...this is already an issue.
Also the devil did a great trick, by getting everywhere New Age stuff so people are scared for anything supernatural. And God Himself is Spirit and He is supernatural. To make a distinguish between what is God and what is from the Devil is for a lot of people not easy.
And next to that. A lot of churches, or should I say all churches
, teach traditions, BUT Jesus showed us that He had his usual ways (He went as He was used to the synagogue) but also very unusual. Putting mud on someones eyes should not be done by any pastor nowadays, he would be called an idiot. Still....it is NOT a sin to put mud on someones eyes nor is a dream (in agreement with the bible) a SIN.People like pasterns, grids, ways that stick the same. That is why everyone looks for a church that suites them. Of course it is also about being Biblical, but it is not the only thing. We have all our glasses on of our background and culture and church when we read the Bible. If anyone says not, they are boasting that they can manage the Bible themselves. But we need the Spirit like the disciples.
For example I see every time on this forum the same sort of strategies and answers, it is done all over and over again. But sometimes the general point of just listening to each others heart is missed. When does the Spirit work, and when me, my flesh?
D
Yea, I know what you mean there.....but obviously if someone has an inspired dream and they understand it without needing someone else to explain it to them.....they automatically interpret it. That's the way I'm looking at it. If you don't interpret it (Or have someone else interpret it for you like in the King of Babylon's case), you can't understand it.....and if you never get the understanding the dream was meant to convey, what would be the purpose to begin with? I know you weren't really for or against a particular point, just thought I'd put that out there