Dropping this nugget on forgiveness

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Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
1,805
530
113
#41
I’m not sure about asking forgiveness but what would you think about this guys doctrine about forgiveness ? A nugget he’s dropping on you ?

“And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any:

that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.

But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭11:25-26‬ ‭

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.

Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned:

forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

..And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like: He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.

But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:36-37, 46-49‬

it’s about believing the gospel letting Gods word define forgiveness , salvstion ect. We’re going to be saved because we believe the gospel such as the quotes from the lord above

it’s the belief of what he’s saying because he is God speaking clearly to anyone who will believe 😇

he speaks of the gospel as a seed and tells of seed time and harvest through belief and perseverance in his word the gospel he preached . To believe what he was teaching accepting it as he said it is

that faith brings us into line with what God is saying. to believe the gospel and persevere therin if we believe , the result is going to be that if we do struggle with forgiving others , when we start to accept the truth of Christ that it’s tied to our own forgiveness, then we will begin to forgive because we’ve removed the excuse to hold grudges against others simply because we believe Christs word whom is the judge proven to all by his resurrection

“And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭17:30-31‬ ‭KJV‬‬


As long as we argue that it’s not required it’s manifestation of disbelief of what Jesus has said . Who is the eternal
Judge . If we always explain why his word isn’t right , we
Can never believe and learn from God

“It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:45, 47‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We often pluck a single verse out such as “ just believe there” but we exclude what’s being said just before and then he says whoever believes in me

Hes teaching mankind what he wants us to know and believe .. he first taught it to Israel then sent those who believed his words out to teach all the world and we still have the same teachings to believe

it’s truly about belief but to believe we have to conform to Gods word and his version of salvation

I don’t think technically asking forgiveness is required but forgiving others is , and if we don’t need to ask then they shouldn’t need to ask us to forgive all their trespasses against us

If we find agreement with christs teachings and believe we’re home where we belong but we should be careful of people who explain that what God himself said about salvation matters is. Or what to believe .

a lot of people teach a lot of things brother but Jesus words still teach the same thing they did almost 2000 years ago

“And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We’re forgiven from our sins according to the law , but we still have to face that judgement pertaining to how we love our life in Christ if we accept it now we don’t have to face it in the end

Remember Paul said he was the one appointed to judge the world

“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:48-50‬ ‭KJV‬‬

his words are Gods words about forgiveness , adultery , greed , hate , pride , list and all he teaches about those words of God we have to accept now in this life and be saved or at the last day we are going to be judged according to them anyways which leaves a person doomed who rejects Gods word of life salvstion is explained by Jesus and the apostles really well if we take it all in and believe
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
10,879
2,212
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#42
So you are agreeing that we don’t confess our sins in order to be forgiven judicially or for salvation? Yes, you said exactly that in your last paragraph. “Not to maintain salvation.”

Ephesians 4:32
“Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you.

Colossians 3:13
“Bear with each other and forgive one another if any of you has a grievance against someone. Forgive as the Lord forgave you.

We clearly see that God has already forgiven us, and out of that revelation of forgiveness we do not hypocritically lack forgiveness towards others. See here in the NT it is not an ultimatum of forgive or else, but an encouragement to do so based in experiencing God’s forgiveness.

Now, am I pompously disagreeing with Jesus, our Lord and Savior? No, I am rightly dividing God’s word of truth. Jesus said many things people had to do or else they wouldn’t be forgiven. He said if your eye caused you to sin, cut it out for it is better to go into Heaven maimed than to go to Hell whole.

He made clear God’s righteous and perfect standard (under Law); a standard we cannot of ourselves keep. And to suggest that a person who holds a grudge and dies is on their way to Hell is a scary thought and antithetical to the new covenant of grace.

We forgive now out of love and not obligation. We understand and have received God’s forgiveness, and being so moved by this gracious act we find ourselves being encouraged to also forgive. Again, not out of a necessity to do so as to avoid punishment, but as a means of walking out the love God has poured out on and in us (I.e., a new heart).

We must keep in mind, Heaven is not earned. Salvation is not earned, it is a free gift. Not a debt God owes us for our works. If we had to forgive people in order to be saved, salvation would not be dependent upon the sacrifice of Christ, but our willingness to forgive others.

The merit then would be our surrender, and not Christ’s surrendering of His will to die on the cross for our sake. Faith in Jesus would be moot, because the hardness of someone’s heart towards a great offense could then override the blood of Christ that supposedly cleanses them of all sin. Does the blood of Christ not cover a lack of forgiveness? Is it described as “unpardonable” such as blasphemy against the Holy Spirit? What shall we say then on forgiveness?

Forgiveness is perfected by the Spirit, in the heart of a believer. We can so easily forgive because God has forgiven us much, and as a result we love much.

Maybe we can conclude then that forgiveness may be testimony to the authenticity of a born again Christian, whilst not being the deciding factor? Something indelible in the believer as a work of God. To consider God would even have us bless our enemies.

Ultimately, we are saved by grace through faith.
You're preaching to the choir here. When we believed in Christ, we were forgiven for all sins. However, we confess the sins that we commit as believers because of our fellowship with God. We are going to Him in agreement that whatever we did was wrong.

The original poster said that we should not confess our sins because Jesus already paid for them. But scripture says that as believers that we should confess them. And as I pointed out, asking for forgiveness for our debts (sins) was apart of the Jesus example of prayer to the disciples and all believers, not as a one time prayer, but as part of our daily prayer.

So, I don't know what prompted you to write all of the above. You might want to go back and read my post.
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
4,827
951
113
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#43
You're preaching to the choir here. When we believed in Christ, we were forgiven for all sins. However, we confess the sins that we commit as believers because of our fellowship with God. We are going to Him in agreement that whatever we did was wrong.

The original poster said that we should not confess our sins because Jesus already paid for them. But scripture says that as believers that we should confess them. And as I pointed out, asking for forgiveness for our debts (sins) was apart of the Jesus example of prayer to the disciples and all believers, not as a one time prayer, but as part of our daily prayer.

So, I don't know what prompted you to write all of the above. You might want to go back and read my post.
It’s not only for your benefit that I wrote that but also for the guests/users who may wonder what one might say about the Lord’s Prayer and forgiveness.

Transparency before God (confessing your sins) has the benefit of getting to the root of why you entertain such sins. Asking for forgiveness, with the consequence of if you didn’t you would then be condemned to Hell, is where the error lies. Which, based on your writings, you agree.

So what and why, are we debating? 😅 You seem to suggest (but it really isn’t what you’re saying) that confession of sin is for forgiveness from God (once a believer). It is not. It cannot be. You would also be amiss to not realize that Jesus made the Lord’s Prayer before sacrificing Himself for humanity (where the remission of sin/forgiveness starts but isn’t the whole story, because He also rose from the dead being our High Priest applying the blood in the heavenly tabernacle).

We agree, totally forgiven. Past, present, and future. We believe we confess our sins (in respect to transparency before God). Somehow, however, you seem to think the OP said to NOT confess sin and from that false premise you’ve given a rebuttal.

Also, you seem to be suggesting that we daily ask for forgiveness because of the Lord’s Prayer, which we know has no applicability to the believer in terms of justification before God. How do we ask God to forgive us of what He has already forgiven us for? It’s a bit redundant, isn’t it?

Sin confession for forgiveness is not the same as sin confession for deliverance and transparency. Also, just a side note, asking for forgiveness for your sins as you forgive others for their sins wouldn’t be sin confession (as if addressing particular sins) but is a general prayer. It wouldn’t get to the root of the sin, it would just be asking God to forgive your sins and not help you walk through specific areas. “Forgive me as I forgive others.” Where is the addressing of sin in this prescription?

It is a jump to describe the Lord’s prayer as sin confession for forgiveness.
 
Jan 25, 2015
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#44
You need to repent and seek forgiveness for that "joke".

For the cause of Christ
Roger
I agee with you Roger and unfortunately the yoke is not a joke.

We have to pick up our cross and follow Him.

He said His yoke is easy and His burden is light.
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
4,827
951
113
31
#45
I agee with you Roger and unfortunately the yoke is not a joke.

We have to pick up our cross and follow Him.

He said His yoke is easy and His burden is light.
You need to repent and seek forgiveness for that "joke".

For the cause of Christ
Roger
You both realize right after the joke I realized some people may perceive it to be crude and for that reason I asked for you to forgive me? Maybe it was facetious more so than crude. Either way, ease up please. 🙂
 
Jan 25, 2015
8,279
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#46
You both realize right after the joke, I realized some people may perceive it to be crude and for that reason I asked for you to forgive me? Maybe it was facetious more so than crude. Either way, ease up please. 🙂
I am not trying to give you some lip my friend :) .
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,523
113
#47
You both realize right after the joke I realized some people may perceive it to be crude and for that reason I asked for you to forgive me? Maybe it was facetious more so than crude. Either way, ease up please. 🙂
Do you think that "joke" glorifies Christ? If what proceeds from our mouth is an indicator of what is in our hearts ought we brush it off so lightly? Jesus said we will give account for every idle word. I'm not your judge and I have plenty to account for on my own but I cannot in good conscience encourage such things in others.

For the cause of Christ
Roger