Dual Covenant Theology

[zone]

This is another thread where the person that created the poll did not define it so the poll is flawed and useless. If you vote true, are you voting FOR two ways to heaven or just one or are you voting that two covenants exist as opposed to one or none or some other definition?

Nobody knows except the one who created the poll. So the responses equal a great many things only some of which have anything to do with what the person who created the poll intended. Another dumb useless divisive poll because so little thought was given to communication by its creator.

here AoK

might have to read a little.....from the opening post:


is Dual Covenant Theology TRUE OR FALSE?


Dual-covenant theology

Dual-covenant theology is a Christian view of the Old Covenant which holds that Jews may simply keep the Law of Moses, because of the "everlasting covenant" (Genesis 17:13) between Abraham and God expressed in the Hebrew Bible, whereas Gentiles (those not Jews or Jewish proselytes) must convert to Christianity or alternatively accept the Seven Laws of Noah to be assured of a place in the World to Come.



Many forms of Christianity, especially Conservative Protestants, consider this view to be heresy. Alternative Christian views are that the Law of Moses has been superseded or abrogated. According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, no. 1967, "The Law of the Gospel "fulfills," refines, surpasses, and leads the Old Law to its perfection."....

Criticism of Dual-Covenant Theology

A major theme of Paul's Epistle to the Romans is that, so far as salvation is concerned, Jews and Gentiles are equal before God (2:7-12; 3:9-31; 4:9-12; 5:12,17-19; 9:24; 10:12-13; 11:30-32). Romans 1:16, by stating that the Gospel is the same for Jew and Gentile, presents a serious problem for Dual-covenant theology.[10] However, the relationship of Paul of Tarsus and Judaism is still a subject of scholarly debate.

Galatians 5:3 is sometimes cited as a verse supporting Dual-covenant theology. A problem with this argument, however, is the context of Galatians 5.[11] Galatians 5:4[12] in particular, says, "You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace." Line this up with Galatians 2,[13] Galatians 2:21[14] in particular, which says “I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.” Scholars still debate the meaning of the Pauline phrase "Works of the Law" (see New Perspective on Paul and Federal Vision).

A similar challenge is presented by Galatians 2:15[15] and 16,[16] just after the Incident at Antioch, in which Paul says (speaking to Peter, a fellow Jew), “We are Jews by nature and not sinners from among the Gentiles; nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified."

The same exclusive claims for the Christian message are also made by other writers. John 14:6[17] states, "Jesus said to him, 'I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.'" Peter, speaking to fellow Jews about Jesus in Acts 4:12,[18] says: "And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men, by which we must be saved."

The First Epistle of John states, "Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist—he denies the Father and the Son. No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also."[19] This does not differentiate between Jews or Gentiles.

Dual-covenant theology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia < click MORE

hopefully that helps.
nobody has to answer a poll, or post on this thread.
find out what it means first i reckon.

 

[zone]

Schucks EG

And I thought the following in 1948 was the fullment of biblical prophecy, but I guess not, God had nothing to do with it, it was all the decisions of powerful bankers, and other godless people:

and I will bring my people Israel back from exile.[SUP][f][/SUP]“They will rebuild the ruined cities and live in them.
They will plant vineyards and drink their wine;
they will make gardens and eat their fruit.
[SUP]15[/SUP]I will plant Israel in their own land,
never again to be uprooted
from the land I have given them,”

says the Lord your God.
Amos9:14&15

At that time I will deal
with all who oppressed you.
I will rescue the lame;
I will gather the exiles.
I will give them praise and honor
in every land where they have suffered shame.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]At that time I will gather you;
at that time I will bring you home.
I will give you honor and praise
among all the peoples of the earth
when I restore your fortunes[SUP][e][/SUP]
before your very eyes,”
says the Lord.
Zeph3:19&20

let's see how hard this is.....

Amos 9:15
And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the LORD thy God.

Genesis 13
And the LORD said unto Abram, after that Lot was separated from him, Lift up now thine eyes, and look from the place where thou art northward, and southward, and eastward, and westward: For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever. And I will make thy seed as the dust of the earth: so that if a man can number the dust of the earth, then shall thy seed also be numbered. Arise, walk through the land in the length of it and in the breadth of it; for I will give it unto thee.

Genesis 28:13
And, behold, the LORD stood above it, and said, I am the LORD God of Abraham thy father, and the God of Isaac: the land whereon thou liest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed; And thy seed shall be as the dust of the earth, and thou shalt spread abroad to the west, and to the east, and to the north, and to the south: and in thee and in thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed.

Genesis 18:18
Seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him

Galatians 3:16
Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

~

apparently we just refuse to believe this:


Galatians 3:16
Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

 

[mark54]

let's see how hard this is.....

.

Prctically impossible for a theologian or scholar I would say

 

[zone]

Prctically impossible for a theologian or scholar I would say

let's keep it simple...

Galatians 3:16
Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

what does the above mean?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Prctically impossible for a theologian or scholar I would say

or to anyone who does not want to see!

 

[mark54]

Do not gloat over me, my enemy!
Though I have fallen, I will rise.
Though I sit in darkness,
the Lord will be my light.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Because I have sinned against him,
I will bear the Lord’s wrath,
until he pleads my case
and upholds my cause.
He will bring me out into the light;
I will see his righteousness.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Then my enemy will see it
and will be covered with shame,
she who said to me,
“Where is the Lord your God?”
My eyes will see her downfall;
even now she will be trampled underfoot
like mire in the streets. [SUP]11 [/SUP]The day for building your walls will come,
the day for extending your boundaries.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]In that day people will come to you
from Assyria and the cities of Egypt,
even from Egypt to the Euphrates
and from sea to sea
and from mountain to mountain.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]The earth will become desolate because of its inhabitants,
as the result of their deeds.

[h=3]Prayer and Praise[/h][SUP]14 [/SUP]Shepherd your people with your staff,
the flock of your inheritance,
which lives by itself in a forest,
in fertile pasturelands.[SUP][a][/SUP]
Let them feed in Bashan and Gilead
as in days long ago.

[SUP]15 [/SUP]“As in the days when you came out of Egypt,
I will show them my wonders.”

[SUP]16 [/SUP]Nations will see and be ashamed,
deprived of all their power.
They will put their hands over their mouths
and their ears will become deaf.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]They will lick dust like a snake,
like creatures that crawl on the ground.
They will come trembling out of their dens;
they will turn in fear to the Lord our God
and will be afraid of you.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Who is a God like you,
who pardons sin and forgives the transgression
of the remnant of his inheritance?
You do not stay angry forever
but delight to show mercy.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]You will again have compassion on us;
you will tread our sins underfoot
and hurl all our iniquities into the depths of the sea.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]You will be faithful to Jacob,
and show love to Abraham,
as you pledged on oath to our ancestors
in days long ago.
Micah7:8-20

I will strengthen Judah
and save the tribes of Joseph.
I will restore them
because I have compassion on them.
They will be as though
I had not rejected them,
for I am the Lord their God
and I will answer them.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]The Ephraimites will become like warriors,
and their hearts will be glad as with wine.
Their children will see it and be joyful;
their hearts will rejoice in the Lord.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]I will signal for them
and gather them in.
Surely I will redeem them;
they will be as numerous as before.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Though I scatter them among the peoples,
yet in distant lands they will remember me.
They and their children will survive,
and they will return.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]I will bring them back from Egypt
and gather them from Assyria.
I will bring them to Gilead and Lebanon,
and there will not be room enough for them
Zechariah 10:6-10

truth and peace.”
[SUP]20 [/SUP]This is what the Lord Almighty says: “Many peoples and the inhabitants of many cities will yet come, [SUP]21 [/SUP]and the inhabitants of one city will go to another and say, ‘Let us go at once to entreat the Lord and seek the Lord Almighty. I myself am going.’ [SUP]22 [/SUP]And many peoples and powerful nations will come to Jerusalem to seek the Lord Almighty and to entreat him.”

[SUP]23 [/SUP]This is what the Lord Almighty says: “In those days ten people from all languages and nations will take firm hold of one Jew by the hem of his robe and say, ‘Let us go with you, because we have heard that God is with you.’”
Zechariah8:20-23

I know fulfilled

 

[mark54]

let's keep it simple...

Galatians 3:16
Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

what does the above mean?

lol what's that got to do with it

 

[zone]

lol what's that got to do with it

exactly....you wouldn't know.
no clue.

 

[mark54]

exactly....you wouldn't know.
no clue.

Absolutely I wouldn't

But it is interesting you ignore the huge swathes of scripture placed before you

But I know fulfilled

 

[eternally-gratefull]

let's keep it simple...

Galatians 3:16
Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

what does the above mean?

[SUP]6 [/SUP]Even so Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness. [SUP]7 [/SUP]Therefore,be sure that it is those who are of faith who are sons of Abraham. [SUP]8 [/SUP]The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “All the nations will be blessed in you.” [SUP]9 [/SUP]So then those who are of faith are blessed with Abraham, the believer.

Gen 22: [SUP]18 [/SUP]In your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed, because you have obeyed My voice.”

Quite simple actually

 

[zone]

Do not gloat over me, my enemy!
Though I have fallen, I will rise.
Though I sit in darkness,
the Lord will be my light.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Because I have sinned against him,
I will bear the Lord’s wrath,
until he pleads my case
and upholds my cause.
He will bring me out into the light;
I will see his righteousness.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Then my enemy will see it
and will be covered with shame,
she who said to me,
“Where is the Lord your God?”
My eyes will see her downfall;
even now she will be trampled underfoot
like mire in the streets. [SUP]11 [/SUP]The day for building your walls will come,
the day for extending your boundaries.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]In that day people will come to you
from Assyria and the cities of Egypt,
even from Egypt to the Euphrates
and from sea to sea
and from mountain to mountain.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]The earth will become desolate because of its inhabitants,
as the result of their deeds.

[h=3]Prayer and Praise[/h][SUP]14 [/SUP]Shepherd your people with your staff,
the flock of your inheritance,
which lives by itself in a forest,
in fertile pasturelands.[SUP][a][/SUP]
Let them feed in Bashan and Gilead
as in days long ago.

[SUP]15 [/SUP]“As in the days when you came out of Egypt,
I will show them my wonders.”

[SUP]16 [/SUP]Nations will see and be ashamed,
deprived of all their power.
They will put their hands over their mouths
and their ears will become deaf.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]They will lick dust like a snake,
like creatures that crawl on the ground.
They will come trembling out of their dens;
they will turn in fear to the Lord our God
and will be afraid of you.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Who is a God like you,
who pardons sin and forgives the transgression
of the remnant of his inheritance?
You do not stay angry forever
but delight to show mercy.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]You will again have compassion on us;
you will tread our sins underfoot
and hurl all our iniquities into the depths of the sea.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]You will be faithful to Jacob,
and show love to Abraham,
as you pledged on oath to our ancestors
in days long ago.
Micah7:8-20

I will strengthen Judah
and save the tribes of Joseph.
I will restore them
because I have compassion on them.
They will be as though
I had not rejected them,
for I am the Lord their God
and I will answer them.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]The Ephraimites will become like warriors,
and their hearts will be glad as with wine.
Their children will see it and be joyful;
their hearts will rejoice in the Lord.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]I will signal for them
and gather them in.
Surely I will redeem them;
they will be as numerous as before.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Though I scatter them among the peoples,
yet in distant lands they will remember me.
They and their children will survive,
and they will return.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]I will bring them back from Egypt
and gather them from Assyria.
I will bring them to Gilead and Lebanon,
and there will not be room enough for them
Zechariah 10:6-10

truth and peace.”
[SUP]20 [/SUP]This is what the Lord Almighty says: “Many peoples and the inhabitants of many cities will yet come, [SUP]21 [/SUP]and the inhabitants of one city will go to another and say, ‘Let us go at once to entreat the Lord and seek the Lord Almighty. I myself am going.’ [SUP]22 [/SUP]And many peoples and powerful nations will come to Jerusalem to seek the Lord Almighty and to entreat him.”

[SUP]23 [/SUP]This is what the Lord Almighty says: “In those days ten people from all languages and nations will take firm hold of one Jew by the hem of his robe and say, ‘Let us go with you, because we have heard that God is with you.’”
Zechariah8:20-23

I know fulfilled

with whom is The Lord in Covenant?
anyone outside Jesus Christ?
are any in Christ in exile?

 

[mark54]

with whom is The Lord in Covenant?
anyone outside Jesus Christ?
are any in Christ in exile?

What are you on about???????

 

[mark54]

with whom is The Lord in Covenant?
anyone outside Jesus Christ?
are any in Christ in exile?

What has this got to do with God bringing them back to their homeland, not all fulfilled yet, but it will be

 

[zone]

Hebrews 10 c. 68AD
Christ’s Sacrifice Once for All
1For since the law has but a shadow of the good things to come instead of the true form of these realities, it can never, by the same sacrifices that are continually offered every year, make perfect those who draw near. 2Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be offered, since the worshipers, having once been cleansed, would no longer have any consciousness of sins? 3But in these sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. 4For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.

5Consequently, when Christa came into the world, he said,

“Sacrifices and offerings you have not desired,
but a body have you prepared for me;
6 in burnt offerings and sin offerings
you have taken no pleasure.
7 Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come to do your will, O God,
as it is written of me in the scroll of the book.’”

8When he said above, “You have neither desired nor taken pleasure in sacrifices and offerings and burnt offerings and sin offerings” (these are offered according to the law), 9then he added, “Behold, I have come to do your will.” He does away with the first in order to establish the second. 10And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11And every priest stands daily at his service, offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12But when Christb had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, 13waiting from that time until his enemies should be made a footstool for his feet. 14For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.

15And the Holy Spirit also bears witness to us; for after saying,

16 “This is the covenant that I will make with them
after those days, declares the Lord:
I will put my laws on their hearts,
and write them on their minds,”

17then he adds,

“I will remember their sins and their lawless deeds no more.”

18Where there is forgiveness of these, there is no longer any offering for sin.

The Full Assurance of Faith
19Therefore, brothers,c since we have confidence to enter the holy places by the blood of Jesus, 20by the new and living way that he opened for us through the curtain, that is, through his flesh, 21and since we have a great priest over the house of God, 22let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, with our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. 23Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for he who promised is faithful. 24And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works, 25not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near.

26For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. 28Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses. 29How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has spurned the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace? 30For we know him who said, “Vengeance is mine; I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge his people.” 31It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

32But recall the former days when, after you were enlightened, you endured a hard struggle with sufferings, 33sometimes being publicly exposed to reproach and affliction, and sometimes being partners with those so treated. 34For you had compassion on those in prison, and you joyfully accepted the plundering of your property, since you knew that you yourselves had a better possession and an abiding one. 35Therefore do not throw away your confidence, which has a great reward. 36For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God you may receive what is promised. 37For,

“Yet a little while,
and the coming one will come and will not delay;
38 but my righteous one shall live by faith,
and if he shrinks back,
my soul has no pleasure in him.”

39But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who have faith and preserve their souls.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Whast has this got to do with God bringing them back to their homeland, not all fulfilled yet, but it will be

she does not understand that. she thinks we think God will bring an unbelieving, hateful nation back to its land.. which is not the case.

they are in exile because they are in sin..

anyone in christ is not in sin, so of course they would not be in exile..

but that just proves that is not talking about anyone in christ, but nation in exile

 

[mark54]

Hebrews 10 c. 68AD
Christ’s Sacrifice Once for All
1For since the law has but a shadow of the good things to come instead of the true form of these realities, it can never, by the same sacrifices that are continually offered every year, make perfect those who draw near. 2Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be offered, since the worshipers, having once been cleansed, would no longer have any consciousness of sins? 3But in these sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. 4For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.

5Consequently, when Christa came into the world, he said,

“Sacrifices and offerings you have not desired,
but a body have you prepared for me;
6 in burnt offerings and sin offerings
you have taken no pleasure.
7 Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come to do your will, O God,
as it is written of me in the scroll of the book.’”

8When he said above, “You have neither desired nor taken pleasure in sacrifices and offerings and burnt offerings and sin offerings” (these are offered according to the law), 9then he added, “Behold, I have come to do your will.” He does away with the first in order to establish the second. 10And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11And every priest stands daily at his service, offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12But when Christb had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, 13waiting from that time until his enemies should be made a footstool for his feet. 14For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.

15And the Holy Spirit also bears witness to us; for after saying,

16 “This is the covenant that I will make with them
after those days, declares the Lord:
I will put my laws on their hearts,
and write them on their minds,”

17then he adds,

“I will remember their sins and their lawless deeds no more.”

18Where there is forgiveness of these, there is no longer any offering for sin.

The Full Assurance of Faith
19Therefore, brothers,c since we have confidence to enter the holy places by the blood of Jesus, 20by the new and living way that he opened for us through the curtain, that is, through his flesh, 21and since we have a great priest over the house of God, 22let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, with our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. 23Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for he who promised is faithful. 24And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works, 25not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near.

26For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. 28Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses. 29How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has spurned the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace? 30For we know him who said, “Vengeance is mine; I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge his people.” 31It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

32But recall the former days when, after you were enlightened, you endured a hard struggle with sufferings, 33sometimes being publicly exposed to reproach and affliction, and sometimes being partners with those so treated. 34For you had compassion on those in prison, and you joyfully accepted the plundering of your property, since you knew that you yourselves had a better possession and an abiding one. 35Therefore do not throw away your confidence, which has a great reward. 36For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God you may receive what is promised. 37For,

“Yet a little while,
and the coming one will come and will not delay;
38 but my righteous one shall live by faith,
and if he shrinks back,
my soul has no pleasure in him.”

39But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who have faith and preserve their souls.

If you can write something that refutes God bringinig them back to their homeland I will respond, otherwise I'm outta here

 

[mark54]

she does not understand that. she thinks we think God will bring an unbelieving, hateful nation back to its land.. which is not the case.

they are in exile because they are in sin..

anyone in christ is not in sin, so of course they would not be in exile..

but that just proves that is not talking about anyone in christ, but nation in exile

I think we agree on this EG, they have been brought back, but clearly there is someway to go before all is fulfilled. God works to his agenda at His pace.

 

[cfultz3]

Sure we can talk about God (Love), but right now I need to go and show some love to my Dad and paint his hallway for him. BBS.

Back........

 

[zone]

What has this got to do with God bringing them back to their homeland, not all fulfilled yet, but it will be

bringing who back to what homeland?

haven't you read?

Galatians 4 c. 54AD
Example of Hagar and Sarah
21Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not listen to the law? 22For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by a slave woman and one by a free woman. 23But the son of the slave was born according to the flesh, while the son of the free woman was born through promise. 24Now this may be interpreted allegorically: these women are two covenants. One is from Mount Sinai, bearing children for slavery; she is Hagar. 25Now Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia;e she corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. 26But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother. 27For it is written,

“Rejoice, O barren one who does not bear;
break forth and cry aloud, you who are not in labor!
For the children of the desolate one will be more
than those of the one who has a husband.”

28Now you,f brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise. 29But just as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so also it is now. 30But what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the slave woman and her son, for the son of the slave woman shall not inherit with the son of the free woman.” 31So, brothers, we are not children of the slave but of the free woman.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I think we agree on this EG, they have been brought back, but clearly there is someway to go before all is fulfilled. God works to his agenda at His pace.

I understand her hate for the false idea of dual covenant and how isreal is saved by law not faith. And I am with her on that. more than she known.

What I can;t comprehend is she has turned this toward everyone who believes in a literal future kingdom and restoration after isreal repents.