Dualism, the doctrine of a disassociated identity

InSpiritInTruth · Nov 23, 2016

I have noticed a disturbing false belief over the years and have decided to address it here. This false belief is rooted in the Gnostic belief of dualism, but I like to call it a doctrine of a disassociated identity.

Before I try to explain this false belief, let me first do so by giving you a example. Here is a quote from a member here; and I am not going to name names because I am addressing this false belief only which many here in these forums from a certain sect hold to as the truth. Here is the quote….

Notice the above person is making a total disconnect between their “spirit” identity, which they say is perfect and does not sin, and their outward actions, which still does sin as they openly confess. This is also why I call it a “disassociated identity” because they try to make a disconnect between the heart/mind/spirit and their words and actions=the works, or fruit they produce. That is, they do not “identify” with the sins that they often do, but rather they “imagine” themselves like Christ as perfect and sinless in spirit.

This idea that their spirit is perfect and sinless while still engaging in sinful words and actions is false because Jesus said it is the things that come forth from the heart/mind/spirit that defile a man… Matthew 15:18-20

So it is the spirit working in man that needs to be reborn and renewed so one can then bear good fruit on the outside, which is why God said He would give us a new heart and spirit in Ezekiel 11:19 “And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:”

So in a nutshell, if the Spirit of Christ is truly in you, and you have His heart and imputed righteousness working in you, you will indeed be set free from sin and also be able by Him working in you to bring forth fruits of righteousness.

Here is a simple saying, but true…. Evil is as evil does, and Righteous is as righteous does.

So the fruits, or words and actions we produce depend on the spirit working in our hearts and minds. To try to make a total disconnect between our heart/mind/spirit and our outward words and actions= works/fruit is a false belief.

Remember, Jesus said you shall know them by their fruit= words and actions

1 John 3:6-10[SUP] “[/SUP]Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.[SUP]7 [/SUP]Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.[SUP]8 [/SUP]He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.[SUP]9 [/SUP]Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

[SUP]10 [/SUP]In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.”

passing_through · Nov 23, 2016

I will not immediately counter this as I have not had a drop of coffee yet.

I wish to say that I respect you as a earnest student of the Word.

Grace777x70 · Nov 23, 2016

Scriptures definitely talk about the flesh and the spirit. We are new creations in Christ 2 Cor. 5:17. We have a new heart now where Christ dwells as one spirit joined. 1 Cor. 6:17.

The real man in Christ is the spirit and soul. The flesh is the body of sin. It still has the law of sin in it Romans 7:23. We are still responsible with what we do with the members of our body.

When we die - the flesh with the law of sin in it is buried. It does not go to heaven with us because it is NOT the real us.

Walk according to the flesh and you will experience death here on this earth. Take up shooting heroin in your arms and we will see quickly this principle in action.

Here is what Vine's describes this "law of sin" that is in the flesh - acting through the members of our body when we yield to it.

"a governing principle or power, e.g., Rom. 6:6; "(the body) of sin," here "sin" is spoken of as an organized power, acting through the members of the body, "

Vine's Expository Dictionary of Old Testament and New Testament Words.

If we don't understand that God circumcised us by cutting away the new heart of man ( the new creation in Christ ) from the body of flesh - our natural humanistic mind will think we are dis-associating ourselves from the flesh which is of course foolishness.

Colossians 2:11 (NASB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ;

The Holy Spirit in sealing us for the day of redemption. ( Eph. 1:13 , Eph. 4:30 ) cut away the body of our flesh from the inner man in Christ. It is called the circumcision of Christ and of the heart. Romans 2:29

To our natural mindsets - this can lead us to think that the body doesn't matter. This is where the gnostic heresy came about. Taking the truths of the division of the spirit and soul from the flesh that is in the gospel and perverting it.

You can always find out what is being preached by the heresy that comes from that teaching - such as the body is evil and what we do doesn't matter. The body itself is not evil - Jesus had a body - our bodies have a parasite in it called the "law of sin" and if we yield to the flesh which has that law of sin in it - it will produce the works of the flesh.

This is why we are to preach and teach Christ as the revelation of Him bring grace for living by the spirit instead of the flesh so that we don't fulfull "it's" desires.

Romans 6:12 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts,

dcontroversal · Nov 23, 2016

The words of Jesus....

The SPIRIT is indeed willing, but the FLESH IS WEAK.......

This one statement proves the following

A) The originator of this post is lacking in a biblical understanding
B) This originator of this thread teaches things that are false
C) The originator of this thread rejects truth so as to push a heretical doctrine

The bible speaks volumes concerning the CONFLICT BETWEEN OUR FALLEN NATURE AND OUR BORN AGAIN SPIRIT....the BATTLE IN THE MIND FOR CONTROL and the fact that EVEN PAUL HAD DIFFICULTY overcoming the FLESH that his BORN AGAIN SPIRIT RESIDED IN.........

Do not believe the lies that come from the OP ABOVE nor the false doctrine that oozes from it!

dcontroversal · Nov 23, 2016

The words of John....

If WE say that WE have no sin (present tense) WE are deceived and the TRUTH IS NOT IN US.....

This statement proves numerous things...

A) John as a saved man who wrote 5 books of the N.T. INCLUDED HIMSELF IN THE VERSE UNDER INSPIRATION OF GOD
B) The verse is written in a PRESENT TENSE while BEING SAVED
C) THOSE who are SAVED and say they have NO SIN (PRESENTLY) ARE...
D) DECEIVED AND...
E) THEY DO NOT HAVE THE TRUTH IN THEM

The originator of this post CLAIMS TO BE ABOVE SIN AND WITHOUT SIN....

He is
A) Deceived
B) DOES NOT HAVE THE TRUTH IN HIM

Do not believe and or follow one who openly states by belief that they LACK THE TRUTH AND ARE DECEIVED.....HE will lead you astray!

Base12 · Nov 23, 2016

InSpiritInTruth said:

^^^
This is talking about after resurrection when we are in our Glorified Bodies.

We will not be able to sin after that... until then... yes, we still sin.

passing_through · Nov 23, 2016

Base12 said:

No it's not, right now the born again spirit is "complete in Christ", but without an unsaved body, we can't sin.

Grace777x70 · Nov 23, 2016

Romans 7 shows the two conflicts that are going on in a believer. One is not the real them ( not their true nature ) - not who they really are in Christ.

The flesh even though it stems from the corrupted Adamic influence in the world is now not the real us who are in Christ.

The flesh and the law of sin in our body - it wages war against the real us in Christ.

The flesh is ways to think and act that "were" the manner of living we had when we were in Adam but now are left over the old man died on the cross with Christ. ( Eph 4:22 - in reference to your former manner of living )

Romans 7:17-18 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] So now, no longer am I ( the new man ) the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me (in my body which has the flesh with the power of sin in it ).

[SUP]18[/SUP] For I know that nothing good dwells in me (my body which has the flesh in it ), that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me ( in my new man ), but the doing of the good is not.

Romans 7:20-23 (NASB)
[SUP]20[/SUP] But if I am doing the very thing I ( new man) do not want, I( new man ) am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me ( in the flesh).

[SUP]21[/SUP] I find then the principle that evil is present in me (new man ), the one who wants to do good.

[SUP]22 [/SUP] For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, ( new man),

[SUP]23 [/SUP] but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members.

italics = my words

Then Romans chapter 8 comes in and shows us how to walk according to the Spirit and not the flesh to put to death the deeds of the body ( flesh in the body ). Rom 8:13

We do not have 2 identities within ourselves ( the flesh and the law of sin do not belong to our new nature which in Christ. ). Jesus said " A house divided will not stand."

We do not have "2 selves" we have the true self in Christ and we still have the flesh. Even though the flesh manifests "itself" with "it's" lusts through our bodies - it is not the real us in Christ.

We are still responsible for the deeds done in the body as they will affect our life here on this earth. Sin is destructive and will destroy us and those around us if we don't walk by the spirit - our true selves in Christ.

We can still sin in the flesh by doing the works of the flesh but this does not affect the inner man in Christ who has been created in righteousness and holiness.

We need to keep our eyes and Jesus and we are dependent on His life and grace to teach us and transform us outwardly to reflect in our behavior who we already are in our spirit.

As long as we are on this earth and in this body we will have to contend with the world, the flesh and the devil and none of these are the real us that are in Christ.

We are not of the world, nor the flesh, nor the devil.

The good news is that our Lord Jesus Christ has defeated all 3 of them and now we just need to walk in the truth of this! The renewing of our minds to the new creation realities in Christ are paramount into growing up in Him.

John146 · Nov 23, 2016

Base12 said:

When our bodies are redeemed to match our already redeemed souls, then we will be sinless and completely formed into the image of Jesus Christ. Oh what a day that will be!

dcontroversal · Nov 23, 2016

John146 said:

Amen to that and I agree!

InSpiritInTruth · Nov 23, 2016

That is why we need to be born again and given a new nature/heart/mind/spirit like Christ.

Alright, let me first cover this error with those who misunderstand what Paul is saying in Romans 7 accusing Paul with struggling with sin. People try to use Romans 7 as an excuse for ongoing sin, even saying Paul was still struggling with sin. But one needs to keep in mind what Paul said to his audience in Romans 6:19 [SUP]19 [/SUP]I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh:”

So Paul was speaking to their yet carnal condition of being yet in the flesh. With that in mind let's see what Paul is saying in Romans 7, and how in Romans 6 and 8 we can in fact be set free from sin.

Here is a post I made on the topic.....

I have come across a grave error in my internet travels, and that error is in thinking that the law of God is a curse, and is the same Law as the law of sin and death. But Paul makes clear in Romans 7:7 that the law of God is not sin. So what is the law of sin and death? I compare the law of sin and death to be much like the law of gravity; we are all firstborn under it naturally by reason of Adams original sin.

Romans 5:12 “Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:” As it is also written in Romans 5:19 “For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners,” So as it is also written, by nature we were the children of wrath Ephesians 2:3 and as by the judgement of one for sin was unto condemnation Romans 5:16 as the wages of sin is death= being under the law of sin and death.

We know this condemnation of sin was already in the world before the Law of Moses because death already reigned in the world. Romans 5:13 Notice we are told death reigned Romans 5:14“Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.”

That is an important clue in understanding what it means to be under the law of sin and death. When you are under the law of sin you are a servant of sin, like sin being the Devils desire ruling over you as it is written in Romans 5:21 “That as sin hath reigned unto death…”

People try to use Romans 7 as an excuse for ongoing sin, even saying Paul was still struggling with sin. But one needs to keep in mind what Paul said to his audience in Romans 6:19 [SUP]19 [/SUP]I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh:”

What Paul was showing in Romans 7 was the struggle and enmity between the law of the flesh and the law of the Spirit, these 2 spirits and 2 natures are contrary to one another. Notice in Romans 7 we are shown 2 laws, one is the law of sin and death, the other is the law of God. We already saw in Romans 7:7 that the law of God is not sin, now notice Paul confirms in verse 13 the law of God is not death either.

Romans 7:12-25 "Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.[SUP]13 [/SUP]Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
[SUP]23 [/SUP]But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? [SUP]25 [/SUP]I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

In the above we see the 2 laws (flesh vs. Spirit) warring against one another, but are we to remain in this state of captivity and bondage being under the law of sin and death? Scripture gives us the answer to this as well in Romans 8:1-4 “There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.[SUP]2 [/SUP]For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:[SUP]4 [/SUP]That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.”

What we see in the above is walking after the flesh is serving sin and =being under the law of sin and death. Thus when we are born again of the Spirit we are no longer walking in the lusts of the flesh. Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.” So it is the Spirit of Christ (law of the Spirit of Life) that sets us free from the first nature that desires to walk in the flesh and serve sin.

Now some might say this does not mean we are set free from sin and death, just that we are set free from the law of God. But that is not what is being said above by Paul. To what benefit would it be to be only set free from a holy law, and not be set free from sin and death? All that would amount to is a bunch of lawless sinners. Besides that, the Gentiles were never even under the Law of Moses to begin with, so how can you be set free from a law that you were never even under? Makes no sense.

But the law that both Jews and Gentiles are firstborn under, is the law of sin and death. Romans 3:9 “What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;”

So hopefully you will see in this that it is sin you truly need to be set free from by faith in Jesus Christ, because a servant of sin abides not in the house forever. Peace.

InSpiritInTruth · Nov 23, 2016

I am going to post Romans 6 to show we can in fact be set free from sin that works in our members....

Romans 6 “What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
[SUP]2 [/SUP]God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]For he that is dead is freed from sin.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
[SUP]17 [/SUP]But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

dcontroversal · Nov 23, 2016

InSpiritInTruth said:

That is why we need to be born again and given a new nature/heart/mind/spirit like Christ.

Alright, let me first cover this error with those who misunderstand what Paul is saying in Romans 7 accusing Paul with struggling with sin. People try to use Romans 7 as an excuse for ongoing sin, even saying Paul was still struggling with sin. But one needs to keep in mind what Paul said to his audience in Romans 6:19 [SUP]19 [/SUP]I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh:”

So Paul was speaking to their yet carnal condition of being yet in the flesh. With that in mind let's see what Paul is saying in Romans 7, and how in Romans 6 and 8 we can in fact be set free from sin.

Here is a post I made on the topic.....

I have come across a grave error in my internet travels, and that error is in thinking that the law of God is a curse, and is the same Law as the law of sin and death. But Paul makes clear in Romans 7:7 that the law of God is not sin. So what is the law of sin and death? I compare the law of sin and death to be much like the law of gravity; we are all firstborn under it naturally by reason of Adams original sin.

Romans 5:12 “Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:” As it is also written in Romans 5:19 “For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners,” So as it is also written, by nature we were the children of wrath Ephesians 2:3 and as by the judgement of one for sin was unto condemnation Romans 5:16 as the wages of sin is death= being under the law of sin and death.

We know this condemnation of sin was already in the world before the Law of Moses because death already reigned in the world. Romans 5:13 Notice we are told death reigned Romans 5:14“Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.”

That is an important clue in understanding what it means to be under the law of sin and death. When you are under the law of sin you are a servant of sin, like sin being the Devils desire ruling over you as it is written in Romans 5:21 “That as sin hath reigned unto death…”

People try to use Romans 7 as an excuse for ongoing sin, even saying Paul was still struggling with sin. But one needs to keep in mind what Paul said to his audience in Romans 6:19 [SUP]19 [/SUP]I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh:”

What Paul was showing in Romans 7 was the struggle and enmity between the law of the flesh and the law of the Spirit, these 2 spirits and 2 natures are contrary to one another. Notice in Romans 7 we are shown 2 laws, one is the law of sin and death, the other is the law of God. We already saw in Romans 7:7 that the law of God is not sin, now notice Paul confirms in verse 13 the law of God is not death either.

Romans 7:12-25 "Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.[SUP]13 [/SUP]Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
[SUP]23 [/SUP]But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? [SUP]25 [/SUP]I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

In the above we see the 2 laws (flesh vs. Spirit) warring against one another, but are we to remain in this state of captivity and bondage being under the law of sin and death? Scripture gives us the answer to this as well in Romans 8:1-4 “There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.[SUP]2 [/SUP]For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:[SUP]4 [/SUP]That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.”

What we see in the above is walking after the flesh is serving sin and =being under the law of sin and death. Thus when we are born again of the Spirit we are no longer walking in the lusts of the flesh. Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.” So it is the Spirit of Christ (law of the Spirit of Life) that sets us free from the first nature that desires to walk in the flesh and serve sin.

Now some might say this does not mean we are set free from sin and death, just that we are set free from the law of God. But that is not what is being said above by Paul. To what benefit would it be to be only set free from a holy law, and not be set free from sin and death? All that would amount to is a bunch of lawless sinners. Besides that, the Gentiles were never even under the Law of Moses to begin with, so how can you be set free from a law that you were never even under? Makes no sense.

But the law that both Jews and Gentiles are firstborn under, is the law of sin and death. Romans 3:9 “What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;”

So hopefully you will see in this that it is sin you truly need to be set free from by faith in Jesus Christ, because a servant of sin abides not in the house forever. Peace.

More proof you fail to understand verb tense and Paul speaking in the present tense...

dcontroversal · Nov 23, 2016

Do you sin? Yes or No......simple answer!

PeterJens · Nov 23, 2016

InSpiritInTruth said:

Split personality is a real mental disorder, where behaviour in an individual is so abhorant,
though it is the persons own behaviour they deny it is them, rather another person in their life.

The whole point of Christ is to bring honesty and openness and stop this denial, whether as
a front of being good, or totally out of control, or as something else taking over.

So if people claim faith, but support split personality as healthy, they are just confirming how
unstable they actually are. Nothing from this point onwards can really be discussed, because
it is not part of the kingdom, it is just a disorder of the mind.

If a whole movement take this on as their way of being, they stand condemned as evil doers
who have not repented. Christ did not die to create split personalities not able to face or
control their own behaviour. That is just admiting you are a slave to sin, but denying it is
you, even though there is no one else involved.

Demi777 · Nov 23, 2016

Perfection is a long long road..not a bungee-jump. Even to our last breath we still sin, simply because we are still in the flesh. Even if we may perfect some areas in our life, we still fail at others and its always the same.
As long as we are alive, we are still in a human body with the sinful nature.
I will only believe that you dont sin when you dont die and you and your body get taken into heaven like Enoch and Elijah.. Tho even then I would doubt it.
We are not yet free from sin. If we were free, no christian woman would have labor pains

InSpiritInTruth · Nov 23, 2016

Base12 said:

Negative, we are born again of God and set free from sin in this present age. Here is some scriptural proof we can indeed be set from sin---->>>>

Some folks will tell you that in this life you can never be free from sin, and that you will always sin, and be in sin. But this my friends is not of faith in the good news gospel and power of God in Jesus Christ. That is another gospel, and doctrine of doubt in what the power of God can do you in your life by faith in Jesus Christ.

Jesus came to save us from our sins, to cleanse us from all iniquity, and to also set us free from sin, and to also give us the power by the grace of God so that sin shall not rule over you, but rather righteousness.

Matthew 1:21 “And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.

1 John 5:17 “All unrighteousness is sin:….” Jesus cleanses us from all sin>>>1 John 1:9 “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. = 0 sins left after cleansing. And then he empowers us by His Spirit and by Christ working in us (seed of promise) to remain sin free>>>1 John 3:9 “Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.” = being “In Christ” and not being “in sin”.

Being made free from sin….

Romans 6:3-7 "Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?[SUP]4 [/SUP]Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.[SUP]5 [/SUP]For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:[SUP]6 [/SUP]Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.[SUP]7 [/SUP]For he that is dead is freed from sin.”

Romans 6:18 “Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
Romans 6:20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
Romans 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

John 8:34-36 “Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.[SUP]35 [/SUP]And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
[SUP]36 [/SUP]If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.”

So don’t doubt the power of God in Christ Jesus, but rather believe. Peace

PeterJens · Nov 23, 2016

InSpiritInTruth said:

Amen, preach it.

Grace777x70 · Nov 23, 2016

This should help to know the difference between "sin" - the noun used in Romans 6:14 "sin shall not have dominion over you" and "sinning" the verb which is the action of sinning.

In order to understand Romans 6-7 ( and then finally chapter 8 where the Spirit comes in ) we need to understand the difference between "sin" and "sinning".

Not knowing this leads to all kinds of doctrines like this "sinless perfection in the flesh" one that some try to promote. This doctrine will upset the faith of the young Christian and really in the end promote turmoil in their minds and ship-wreck their faith.

This will also create a works-righteousness mindset instead of a faith-righteousness one that is completely fixed on Christ's completed work for the believer.

We will always have the flesh with us and anyone that says they never are "sinning" have a very low opinion of the holiness of God and are only thinking of the "biggie sins" which they don't do.

Malice and slander and things like these ( Gal. 5:21 ) are just as destructive as living a homosexual lifestyle.

There is a difference between sin the noun and sinning the verb.

Set free from sin does not mean set free from sinning entirely the rest of one's life. Sin the noun has been quarantined in the flesh which is why the Holy Spirit circumcised our hearts ( where He lives and is joined as one in the spirit with us) from the body of flesh.

Romans chapter 6 and 7 uses the noun "sin" 48x times ( which speaks of the law of sin that is in our flesh ) and only once as the verb which is the action of "sinning".

Here is what Vine's describes this "law of sin" that is in the flesh - acting through the members of our body when we yield to it.

"a governing principle or power, e.g., Rom. 6:6; "(the body) of sin," here "sin" is spoken of as an organized power, acting through the members of the body, "

Vine's Expository Dictionary of Old Testament and New Testament Words.

The set free from sin ( the noun ) is relating to not having to be subject anymore to the flesh because we have been sealed in our spirit in our inner man in Christ. - the new creation in Him.

The law of sin is in the flesh and will be there until we leave this earth. Romans 7:19-22. which is where we are not "in the flesh" as Paul says in Romans 8:10 : BUT "in the Spirit".

Colossians 2:11 (NASB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ;

Now we are to walk by the Spirit so that we will not fulfill the flesh to do "its" desires. Romans 6:13

As our minds get renewed to the truth of Christ and what He has already done for us - the Holy Spirit transforms us and we live a holier life. This is all God's work but we participate in it with Him. ( sometimes this is also called the saving of the soul which the mind is a part of )

John146 · Nov 23, 2016

InSpiritInTruth said:

Negative, we are born again of God and set free from sin in this present age. Here is some scriptural proof we can indeed be set from sin---->>>>

Some folks will tell you that in this life you can never be free from sin, and that you will always sin, and be in sin. But this my friends is not of faith in the good news gospel and power of God in Jesus Christ. That is another gospel, and doctrine of doubt in what the power of God can do you in your life by faith in Jesus Christ.

Jesus came to save us from our sins, to cleanse us from all iniquity, and to also set us free from sin, and to also give us the power by the grace of God so that sin shall not rule over you, but rather righteousness.

Matthew 1:21 “And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.

1 John 5:17 “All unrighteousness is sin:….” Jesus cleanses us from all sin>>>1 John 1:9 “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. = 0 sins left after cleansing. And then he empowers us by His Spirit and by Christ working in us (seed of promise) to remain sin free>>>1 John 3:9 “Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.” = being “In Christ” and not being “in sin”.

Being made free from sin….

Romans 6:3-7 "Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?[SUP]4 [/SUP]Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.[SUP]5 [/SUP]For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:[SUP]6 [/SUP]Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.[SUP]7 [/SUP]For he that is dead is freed from sin.”

Romans 6:18 “Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
Romans 6:20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
Romans 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

John 8:34-36 “Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.[SUP]35 [/SUP]And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
[SUP]36 [/SUP]If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.”

So don’t doubt the power of God in Christ Jesus, but rather believe. Peace

Do you sin, yes or no? We've been waiting...

Dualism, the doctrine of a disassociated identity

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