Earth Age

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oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
6,599
5,415
113
#41
What do you say to people who say the earth is 4.6 billion years old?
I tell them what the Bible says. If they want to twist Scripture, then I cannot stop them. I will not bend scripture to fit into men's boxes.

Romans
3:3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
2,835
399
83
Oregon
#42
.
All beasts that live on land were created the very same day as human
life. That has to include the dinosaurs because on no other day did God
create beasts but the sixth.

However; the sciences of geology and paleontology, in combination with
radiometric dating, strongly suggest that dinosaurs preceded humans by
several million years.

It's obvious from physical evidence that much of the Earth's higher
elevations were inundated for a very long time before they were pushed
up to where they are now.

Take for example Mount Everest. Today its tippy top is something like
29,029 feet above sea level. The discovery of fossilized sea lilies near its
summit proves that the Himalayan land mass has not always been
mountainous; but at one time was the floor of an ancient sea bed.

This is confirmed by the "yellow band" below Everest's summit consisting of
limestone: a type of rock made from calcite sediments containing the
skeletal remains of countless trillions of organisms who lived, not on dry
land, rather, underwater in an ocean.

Creation's days are bounded by an evening and a morning. If evening begins
at sunset, and morning begins at sunrise, then chronologically we're looking
at overnight, which is quite a bit less than twenty-four hours.
_
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
19,359
10,642
113
#43
.
All beasts that live on land were created the very same day as human
life. That has to include the dinosaurs because on no other day did God
create beasts but the sixth.


However; the sciences of geology and paleontology, in combination with
radiometric dating, strongly suggest that dinosaurs preceded humans by
several million years.


It's obvious from physical evidence that much of the Earth's higher
elevations were inundated for a very long time before they were pushed
up to where they are now.


Take for example Mount Everest. Today its tippy top is something like
29,029 feet above sea level. The discovery of fossilized sea lilies near its
summit proves that the Himalayan land mass has not always been
mountainous; but at one time was the floor of an ancient sea bed.


This is confirmed by the "yellow band" below Everest's summit consisting of
limestone: a type of rock made from calcite sediments containing the
skeletal remains of countless trillions of organisms who lived, not on dry
land, rather, underwater in an ocean.


Creation's days are bounded by an evening and a morning. If evening begins
at sunset, and morning begins at sunrise, then chronologically we're looking
at overnight, which is quite a bit less than twenty-four hours.
_
Radiological dating assumes that the rates of decay have remained constant and that no "daughter" materials were present at the start. These cannot be proven. What can be proven is that rocks of known ages (formed within living memory) have been dated at millions of years old using radiological methods, throwing the entire practice into much doubt.

The science of geology was "founded" by people with very anti-theistic views. Those views persist in the assumptions taught to modern geology students. We can't take the conclusions of either field without much scrutiny.
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
2,835
399
83
Oregon
#45
.
I believe God created Adam and Eve as adults
I feel reasonably certain that God created Adam as a young man rather than
a senior citizen falling apart.



trees with tree rings already in them
According to Gen 1:11-12, all vegetations grew up from the ground rather
than set out as mature plants.
_
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
2,835
399
83
Oregon
#46
.
Most Christian have, at one time or another, struggled with harmonizing the
six days of creation with the findings of science and empirical evidence.

However, the Hebrew word for day is yowm (yome) which is the very same word
that time-lines the entire creation endeavor at Gen 2:4 so we have to conclude that
"day" in scripture is ambiguous and not all that easy to interpret sometimes.

The terms evening and morning confuse people too but shouldn't because there was no
Sun to cause phases of light and dark until the fourth day; so we are safe to suspect
that evening and morning means something other than physical phenomena.

Seeing as how yowm can indicate time-lines longer than normal days, then I think it's
reasonable to posit that the days of creation were eras of indeterminable length and
the terms evening and morning are convenient place cards to indicate the end of an era
and the beginning of another.
_
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
19,359
10,642
113
#47
.
Most Christian have, at one time or another, struggled with harmonizing the
six days of creation with the findings of science and empirical evidence.


However, the Hebrew word for day is yowm (yome) which is the very same word
that time-lines the entire creation endeavor at Gen 2:4 so we have to conclude that
"day" in scripture is ambiguous and not all that easy to interpret sometimes.


The terms evening and morning confuse people too but shouldn't because there was no
Sun to cause phases of light and dark until the fourth day; so we are safe to suspect
that evening and morning means something other than physical phenomena.


Seeing as how yowm can indicate time-lines longer than normal days, then I think it's
reasonable to posit that the days of creation were eras of indeterminable length and
the terms evening and morning are convenient place cards to indicate the end of an era
and the beginning of another.
_
That’s about the weakest argument I have read for rejecting the standard day view. The only person who would take such weak evidence is someone who already decided to reject it, and is looking for an excuse.
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
2,835
399
83
Oregon
#48
.
That’s about the weakest argument I have read for rejecting the standard
day view. The only person who would take such weak evidence is someone
who already decided to reject it, and is looking for an excuse.

Post No.46 isn't a rejection, rather, it offers an alternative.

Not every Christian out there is naïve and gullible; many are critical thinkers
who prefer Genesis make sense rather than require them to fall back on
"God did it." Now that, in my opinion, is a weak argument if ever.
_
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
19,359
10,642
113
#49
.



Post No.46 isn't a rejection, rather, it offers an alternative.

Not every Christian out there is naïve and gullible; many are critical thinkers
who prefer Genesis make sense rather than require them to fall back on
"God did it." Now that, in my opinion, is a weak argument if ever.
_
Equating acceptance of God's written word with naivete and gullibility, in this context, is deplorable. Assuming the unstated position of another person is fallacious.
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
2,835
399
83
Oregon
#50
.
Equating acceptance of God's written word with naivete and gullibility, in this
context, is deplorable.

Beware thinking yourself infallible because there's always the possibility that
your personal understanding of God's written word is badly mistaken.
_
 

Dean62

New member
Sep 10, 2021
9
7
3
#51
I think it does matter if you want to find the truth.
No the truth and the truth shall set you free. What is this truth doing for you? Is it an attempt to disprove the Bible? The God of the Bible created time and space. How does putting a time stamp on existence change the creation. It's still all of God's creation. All of it. He is the Creator we are the creation. Including time. So let's debate a small part of Gods creation inside our tiny finite box for what truth?
 

awelight

Active member
Aug 10, 2020
864
245
43
66
#52
I know we like to call the first couple chapters of the Bible "the account of creation". However, we should look at it as God moving from obscurity (as far as man is concerned) into a place man can understand Him. This isn't so much about the majesty of God as it is Him revealing Himself to man so that man might know Him.

We first might notice that both heaven and earth are created realms. Neither heaven and earth are eternal because they both have a beginning and an end. So, God was not sitting in heaven awaiting a time to do something. He always existed. At His behest, He begins to reveal Himself from the first point of the record, in Genesis 1:1. However, when He begins to reveal Himself, He creates what may accommodate who He already is. My point is it was not arbitrary or nice or artistic that God created the heavens and the earth: He has fashioned creation to house elements of His character and being in time and space so that He might be known by man.

So, in a very real way, all the scriptures are allegorical. That is to say: all scripture has a natural meaning and a spiritual meaning because they all point back to the One Who created time and space: the Living God. With that in mind, do you begin to see the answer for your question? I can continue if you wish but perhaps you already see it.
The "Gap" theorist would say this creates tension between what is said in this verse:

Isa 45:18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else. (KJV)
Isa 45:18 For thus saith Jehovah that created the heavens, the God that formed the earth and made it, that established it and created it not a waste, that formed it to be inhabited: I am Jehovah; and there is none else. (ASV)


And the condition described here:

Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. (KJV)
Gen 1:2 And the earth was waste and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep: and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. (ASV)


Additionally, they claim that the "Morning Star" - Lucifer, Satan, Devil, that Old Dragon - was first to bring sin into creation and thus, the sin curse upon all creation. There is no doubt in Scripture, that the fall of Satan and his followers predated the fall of Adam. This marred the original beauty of God's creation and that of the Earth when the Devil was cast down upon it. This necessitated, at a later date, the Earth having to be remade or reformed.

Therefore, they claim that having Gen. 1:2, as the original creation, places the fall of Satan after the Earth was created for man. This would mean that Adam was placed into the garden, upon a sin cursed environment or that Satan was cast from Heaven after Adam was formed. This would then place Adam and Eve in the Garden for some extended period of time; however, Scripture seems to imply the period of time was very short.

So then, they claim that Satan fell after the original creation of Gen. 1:1 and God restored the Earth for mankind in six literal days. However, the fallen Satan was upon the Earth when God reformed it for Adam. Awaiting the opportunity to cause havoc upon this newly formed creature. Therefore, sin entered into Creation through Lucifer, (Devil), but entered into the world, (mankind), through Adam. If Death was the penalty for Adam's sin, then what penalty was there for Lucifer's sin? How did both sins effect creation overall?
The Earth was cursed for Adam's sake - which part of creation was cursed for Lucifer's sake?

Now we see the original question is not so simple after all.
 

awelight

Active member
Aug 10, 2020
864
245
43
66
#53
No the truth and the truth shall set you free. What is this truth doing for you? Is it an attempt to disprove the Bible? The God of the Bible created time and space. How does putting a time stamp on existence change the creation. It's still all of God's creation. All of it. He is the Creator we are the creation. Including time. So let's debate a small part of Gods creation inside our tiny finite box for what truth?
Believers balance the search of Truth in this way:

On one side, asking knocking and studying with the aid of the Holy Spirit.

1Co 2:10 But unto us God revealed them through the Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

Limited by this:

Deu 29:29 The secret things belong unto Jehovah our God; but the things that are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.

So yes, Truth matters in all things but not all things are revealed.
 

Diakonos

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2019
943
282
63
28
Anacortes, WA
#55
I feel reasonably certain that God created Adam as a young man rather than
a senior citizen falling apart.
Absolutely. I personally think he was about 30 years old, which is an adult. I never said anything about senior citizens or falling apart.

According to Gen 1:11-12, all vegetations grew up from the ground rather
than set out as mature plants.
I assume you think they grew at the normal rate, according to natural processes, without a supernatural touch from God?
Remember, God has, and can, speed up that rate of growth whenever he wants:

So the LORD God appointed a plant and it grew up over Jonah to be a shade over his head to deliver him from his discomfort. And Jonah was extremely happy about the plant.” (Jonah 4:6)

Vegetation that is planted/altered by God, seems to not be bound to the normal growth rate if He so desires. Thus Genesis 1:11-12 does not negate my position.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
6,284
1,968
113
#56
What do you say to people who say the earth is 4.6 billion years old?
I would say it has nothing to do with the truth of scripture, for scripture tells us something was here before God started creating it for us.

Genesis 1: 1-2In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
19,359
10,642
113
#57
I would say it has nothing to do with the truth of scripture, for scripture tells us something was here before God started creating it for us.

Genesis 1: 1-2In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
The first statement has God creating the heavens and the earth. What do you see as the ‘something’ that ‘was here before’?
 

Journeyman

Well-known member
Jan 10, 2019
1,666
661
113
#58
Yes, but what about relative age dating. Rocks are laid horizontally. The top layer of rocks has to be younger then the bottom layer
of rocks, assuming they haven't been turned upside down by tectonic forces. And what about the fact of the different rock types that exist within that layer and how each one was formed. There may be sedimentary rocks below igneous rocks below metamorphic rocks each indicating a different geological period. Another difficult point to ignore are the fossils within those layers and how they disappeared within the next layer. Wouldn't it take millions of years to form all of this? And why and how did all the life forms disappear from one layer to the next?

Yes, but how do you explain the disappearance of species over time? And why did they disappear?
I don't try to explain it. Scientists have the luxury of saying, "Whoops....we were wrong", and have done so since science began. As I said to you before, the only reliable way to measure the age of something is by observing the formation it.
 

Aaron56

Well-known member
Jul 12, 2021
588
277
63
#59
The "Gap" theorist would say this creates tension between what is said in this verse:

Isa 45:18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else. (KJV)
Isa 45:18 For thus saith Jehovah that created the heavens, the God that formed the earth and made it, that established it and created it not a waste, that formed it to be inhabited: I am Jehovah; and there is none else. (ASV)


And the condition described here:

Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. (KJV)
Gen 1:2 And the earth was waste and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep: and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. (ASV)


Additionally, they claim that the "Morning Star" - Lucifer, Satan, Devil, that Old Dragon - was first to bring sin into creation and thus, the sin curse upon all creation. There is no doubt in Scripture, that the fall of Satan and his followers predated the fall of Adam. This marred the original beauty of God's creation and that of the Earth when the Devil was cast down upon it. This necessitated, at a later date, the Earth having to be remade or reformed.

Therefore, they claim that having Gen. 1:2, as the original creation, places the fall of Satan after the Earth was created for man. This would mean that Adam was placed into the garden, upon a sin cursed environment or that Satan was cast from Heaven after Adam was formed. This would then place Adam and Eve in the Garden for some extended period of time; however, Scripture seems to imply the period of time was very short.

So then, they claim that Satan fell after the original creation of Gen. 1:1 and God restored the Earth for mankind in six literal days. However, the fallen Satan was upon the Earth when God reformed it for Adam. Awaiting the opportunity to cause havoc upon this newly formed creature. Therefore, sin entered into Creation through Lucifer, (Devil), but entered into the world, (mankind), through Adam. If Death was the penalty for Adam's sin, then what penalty was there for Lucifer's sin? How did both sins effect creation overall?
The Earth was cursed for Adam's sake - which part of creation was cursed for Lucifer's sake?

Now we see the original question is not so simple after all.
Yeah, there was no gap. Satan fell like lightening from the heaven of God into the second heaven. Satan is now (and was then) the “prince of the power of the air”. In spite of Satan’s rebellion, God’s creation went forward as planned. Remember: the Lamb Who was slain framed the creation, so the reconciliation of man was “baked into” creation. So also was the plan for the ekklesia to prove, to Satan and his followers, the wisdom of God.
 
Sep 20, 2021
53
3
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#60
One comparison of Psalm 18 and its parallel 2 Samuel 22 (as well as consideration of the rest of the prophets and OT writers) should be all we need to remind us that the Hebraic literary style is NOT the same as we are used to as 21st century Westerners. To take the creation account as *necessarily* woodenly literal does a disservice to scholarship and honesty.