Earth Age

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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#61
One comparison of Psalm 18 and its parallel 2 Samuel 22 (as well as consideration of the rest of the prophets and OT writers) should be all we need to remind us that the Hebraic literary style is NOT the same as we are used to as 21st century Westerners. To take the creation account as *necessarily* woodenly literal does a disservice to scholarship and honesty.
We can still take it literally

Hebraic literature often gave the same scene in different views. Each successive view giving us more detail.

Gen 1 does this perfectly
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#63
@JonMaxwell if you can. Try to correct your quotes if you see them

Gen 1 is a historical account of creation

Psalms 18 is is not a historical record. So I am not sure what your asking

gen 1 we have three accounts

1. God created the heavens and the earth
2. The seven days of creation
3. The creation of mankind.
 
Sep 20, 2021
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#64
@JonMaxwell if you can. Try to correct your quotes if you see them

Gen 1 is a historical account of creation

Psalms 18 is is not a historical record. So I am not sure what your asking

gen 1 we have three accounts

1. God created the heavens and the earth
2. The seven days of creation
3. The creation of mankind.
I will attempt to format the quotes correctly; thanks.

Genesis 1 cannot be a historical account. A day, across all cultures and times (including Biblically) is considered to be the complete cycle of the Earth (rising and falling of the sun) and a consistent time frame. Without the rising/falling of the sun, and the creation of the morning/evening (which wasn't until the fourth day), there is nothing objective and relevant to base the measure of a "day" upon. This is important, and something that is somewhat lost upon us in this day who have clocks everywhere that measure to the minute: Time is RELEVANT, not self-standing. We do not get the objects it is RELEVANT TO until day 4. This is IMPERATIVE to understand Genesis 1 properly.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#65
I will attempt to format the quotes correctly; thanks.

Genesis 1 cannot be a historical account. A day, across all cultures and times (including Biblically) is considered to be the complete cycle of the Earth (rising and falling of the sun) and a consistent time frame. Without the rising/falling of the sun, and the creation of the morning/evening (which wasn't until the fourth day), there is nothing objective and relevant to base the measure of a "day" upon. This is important, and something that is somewhat lost upon us in this day who have clocks everywhere that measure to the minute: Time is RELEVANT, not self-standing. We do not get the objects it is RELEVANT TO until day 4. This is IMPERATIVE to understand Genesis 1 properly.
I think God used the evening and the morning to signify it was a 24 hour period.

The time would have still been the same, the only difference would be there would have been no light, unless you consider God as the light. 9:0 at night would still be 9: 00 at night. When people are in space. There is still evening and morning, it is a period of time.

Time started in Gen 1: 1,

It was still an account of creation.
 

Icedaisey

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2021
1,398
475
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#66
What do you say to people who say the earth is 4.6 billion years old?
Plus or minus 50 million years.

The age is arrived at through testing rocks and minerals radiometrically.

Due to rocks continuously recycling, researchers continue to seek other specimens to date . The earth age may be older, give or take, given that ongoing pursuit.
 

Icedaisey

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2021
1,398
475
83
#67
I will attempt to format the quotes correctly; thanks.

Genesis 1 cannot be a historical account. A day, across all cultures and times (including Biblically) is considered to be the complete cycle of the Earth (rising and falling of the sun) and a consistent time frame. Without the rising/falling of the sun, and the creation of the morning/evening (which wasn't until the fourth day), there is nothing objective and relevant to base the measure of a "day" upon. This is important, and something that is somewhat lost upon us in this day who have clocks everywhere that measure to the minute: Time is RELEVANT, not self-standing. We do not get the objects it is RELEVANT TO until day 4. This is IMPERATIVE to understand Genesis 1 properly.
Welcome to the forum.
 
Sep 20, 2021
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#68
I think God used the evening and the morning to signify it was a 24 hour period.
Like I said, time is RELATIVE. "24 hours" did not, and cannot EXIST before the creation of the sun. Even WHAT WE PERCEIVE as "24 hours" cannot exist without the sun. Because the DEFINITION of "24 hours" is dependent upon the sun.

When people are in space, they are still using comparing their watches to those on earth, which is dependent upon the existence of the sun. Time as we know it DOES NOT EXIST WITHOUT THE SUN. A fundamental knowledge of the LITERAL principle of E=Mc2 is essential to understanding this, and why the idea of a LITERAL 24 hours COULD NOT POSSIBLY exist before the "fourth day".
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#70
Like I said, time is RELATIVE. "24 hours" did not, and cannot EXIST before the creation of the sun. Even WHAT WE PERCEIVE as "24 hours" cannot exist without the sun. Because the DEFINITION of "24 hours" is dependent upon the sun.

When people are in space, they are still using comparing their watches to those on earth, which is dependent upon the existence of the sun. Time as we know it DOES NOT EXIST WITHOUT THE SUN. A fundamental knowledge of the LITERAL principle of E=Mc2 is essential to understanding this, and why the idea of a LITERAL 24 hours COULD NOT POSSIBLY exist before the "fourth day".
So we need the sun to have 24 hours?

I am sorry man, Now who is making presuppositions?
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,639
5,899
113
#72
Plus or minus 50 million years.

The age is arrived at through testing rocks and minerals radiometrically.

Due to rocks continuously recycling, researchers continue to seek other specimens to date . The earth age may be older, give or take, given that ongoing pursuit.
“The age is arrived at through testing rocks and minerals radiometrically.”

Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Studying rocks rather than what God said could be the issue
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,594
13,857
113
#73
Like I said, time is RELATIVE. "24 hours" did not, and cannot EXIST before the creation of the sun. Even WHAT WE PERCEIVE as "24 hours" cannot exist without the sun. Because the DEFINITION of "24 hours" is dependent upon the sun.

When people are in space, they are still using comparing their watches to those on earth, which is dependent upon the existence of the sun. Time as we know it DOES NOT EXIST WITHOUT THE SUN. A fundamental knowledge of the LITERAL principle of E=Mc2 is essential to understanding this, and why the idea of a LITERAL 24 hours COULD NOT POSSIBLY exist before the "fourth day".
Hi and welcome to CC...
Genesis 1:3 states that God created light and separated it from darkness. While the text does not tell us whether this was a point source of light, it does provide sufficient frame of reference for there to be "day" and "night"... as verse 4 says. Your claim that a literal 24-hour day could not exist is therefore unsupportable. We use the sun as the reference for day and night, but its absence does not preclude some other reference, which is plausibly the "light" from verse 3.

I do understand the relationship between matter and energy, but I don't see its relevance to this matter. Perhaps you'd care to explain.

One other thing... using ALL CAPS is the discussion forum equivalent of yelling. I would encourage you to use it sparingly. :)
 

Icedaisey

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2021
1,398
475
83
#74
“The age is arrived at through testing rocks and minerals radiometrically.”

Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Studying rocks rather than what God said could be the issue
Everything that exists is defined in scripture?
 
Sep 20, 2021
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#75
Your claim that a literal 24-hour day could not exist is therefore unsupportable. We use the sun as the reference for day and night, but its absence does not preclude some other reference:)
The reference for "day" and "night" based upon there being light and dark is supportable by your claim, but a literal "24 hour day" is not. Again, time is relevant. The second and minute and hour do not exist in a vacuum, they are a relative measure of a temporal period that is dependent upon the existence and relationship between the Earth and Sun.

Hi and welcome to CC...
One other thing... using ALL CAPS is the discussion forum equivalent of yelling. I would encourage you to use it sparingly. :)
Thank you, and duly noted!
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#76
The reference for "day" and "night" based upon there being light and dark is supportable by your claim, but a literal "24 hour day" is not. Again, time is relevant. The second and minute and hour do not exist in a vacuum, they are a relative measure of a temporal period that is dependent upon the existence and relationship between the Earth and Sun.


Thank you, and duly noted!
Time moves forward. We use the movement of the sun and the earth to measure time. But it is still a reality.

It does not need the son for time to move forward.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,594
13,857
113
#77
The reference for "day" and "night" based upon there being light and dark is supportable by your claim, but a literal "24 hour day" is not. Again, time is relevant. The second and minute and hour do not exist in a vacuum, they are a relative measure of a temporal period that is dependent upon the existence and relationship between the Earth and Sun.
Again, I believe you are putting too much reliance on the sun as a point of reference. Given that God created light and described day and night prior to creating the sun, there is no reason to think that the rotational speed of the earth was substantially different than it is now... unless you have an a priori belief to support. The onus would be on you to support your position with something more substantial than a hypothesis... especially when it runs counter to the plain text.
 
Sep 20, 2021
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#78
Again, I believe you are putting too much reliance on the sun as a point of reference. Given that God created light and described day and night prior to creating the sun, there is no reason to think that the rotational speed of the earth was substantially different than it is now... unless you have an a priori belief to support. The onus would be on you to support your position with something more substantial than a hypothesis... especially when it runs counter to the plain text.
Okay. I am using references to scales that we are familiar with (and that are objectively necessary to understand terms like "day")

But, if we use your (stubborn) logic,

1. In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

With verses 1-2, we have creation without ANY light, period. It existed without ANY reference to light (as you said described day). This is an *immeasurable* (by *any* metric) amount of "time", which completely and irrefutably disallows any literal interpretation of Genesis 1 within the bounds of our concept of time.

It is SIMPLY IMPOSSIBLE. (And I don't care if it appears that I am "yelling". I don't mean to be rude, but the truth is not an *opinion*. It is important).
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,639
5,899
113
#79
Everything that exists is defined in scripture?
everything that exists was created by Gods word

science looks at what his word created in a moment without faith , so we say “ nature Would take a billion years to create this “ it’s because we’re not understanding the almighty and his power

science would also tell us this isn’t possible but he spoke it and it happened

“And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth. And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go.”
‭‭John‬ ‭11:43-44‬ ‭KJV‬‬

was a simple point that science fools it’s own self into thinking too much of mans “ wisdom “
 
Sep 20, 2021
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#80
everything that exists was created by Gods word

science looks at what his word created in a moment without faith , so we say “ nature Would take a billion years to create this “ it’s because we’re not understanding the almighty and his power

science would also tell us this isn’t possible but he spoke it and it happened

“And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth. And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go.”
‭‭John‬ ‭11:43-44‬ ‭KJV‬‬

was a simple point that science fools it’s own self into thinking too much of mans “ wisdom “
Of course everything was created by God's word (Jesus).... (John 1)

That DOES NOT MEAN that everything that exists is defined in scripture.

Truly, this is some *facepalm* level stuff.