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JFSurvivor

JFSurvivor

Senior Member
#101
Jan 20, 2015
1,184
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0
#101
james57 said:
It definitely does. The Christian is not under the ten commandments unto righteousness:

So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. [SUP]5 [/SUP]For when we were in the realm of the flesh,[SUP][a][/SUP] the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death. [SUP]6 [/SUP]But now, by dying to what once bound us(the law), we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code. Rom 7:4-6


Paul is stressing the Christian must die to a law of righteousness in the above. Which law is he referring to? In the next five verses he gives a personal example from his own life as to why he had to die to a law of righteousness. The example he gave was. ''Thou shalt not covet which is one of the Ten Commandments:

What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.[SUP]8 [/SUP]But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
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Key word here SIN. The commandment didn't do that. check out Romans 7:7-24

v.13: "Did which is good then become death to me? By no means! But in order that sin might be recognized as sin it produced death in me through which was good."

So did sin turn the law bad? Should we still fufill it?

Romans 8:4 - "In order that the rightious requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the spirit."

I would suggest reading that in context.

Romans 8:7 - "The sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law nor can it do so."


 
L

LanceA

Guest
#102
#102
Colossians 2:16-17
 
L

LanceA

Guest
#103
#103
If you are truly honoring the sabbath then you need to honor everything about the sabbath not just the day of the week you go to church.
 
JFSurvivor

JFSurvivor

Senior Member
#104
Jan 20, 2015
1,184
25
0
#104
LanceA said:
Colossians 2:16-17
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This could go either way. I see it as if you worship on the sabbath, don't let anyone judge you for it. It doesn't give liscence not to keep the sabbath.

Also the header in my Bible says "Freedom from Human Regulations". The Sabbath wasn't a human regulation. It was put in place by God himself.
 
L

LanceA

Guest
#105
#105
JFSurvivor said:
This could go either way. I see it as if you worship on the sabbath, don't let anyone judge you for it. It doesn't give liscence not to keep the sabbath.

Also the header in my Bible says "Freedom from Human Regulations". The Sabbath wasn't a human regulation. It was put in place by God himself.
Click to expand...
And why did he put the sabbath in place?
 
JFSurvivor

JFSurvivor

Senior Member
#106
Jan 20, 2015
1,184
25
0
#106
LanceA said:
And why did he put the sabbath in place?
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I have no idea. My best guess is that he knows as humans we are work-a-holics and we need a break also that we worry a lot so taking a sabbath makes us rely on him that it's going to be ok. When I have taken my sabbath I worry because I think "how will I get things done?" and then it's like "Ok I'm doing this for God, he asked this of me so I have to trust that it will all be ok even if it's not."

Does that make sense?
 
L

LanceA

Guest
#107
#107
Exodus 34:27-28 (NASB)
[SUP]27 [/SUP] Then the LORD said to Moses, "Write down these words, for in accordance with these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel."
[SUP]28 [/SUP] So he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did not eat bread or drink water. And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.

The ten commandments were part of the Old Covenant.

Hebrews 8:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.

Old Covenant was obsolete.
 
L

LanceA

Guest
#108
#108
JFSurvivor said:
I have no idea. My best guess is that he knows as humans we are work-a-holics and we need a break also that we worry a lot so taking a sabbath makes us rely on him that it's going to be ok. When I have taken my sabbath I worry because I think "how will I get things done?" and then it's like "Ok I'm doing this for God, he asked this of me so I have to trust that it will all be ok even if it's not."

Does that make sense?
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The bible specifically states why he created the sabbath. You need to open it up and read.
 
J

james57

Banned
#109
Oct 21, 2015
2,420
12
0
#109
JFSurvivor said:
Key word here SIN. The commandment didn't do that. check out Romans 7:7-24

v.13: "Did which is good then become death to me? By no means! But in order that sin might be recognized as sin it produced death in me through which was good."

So did sin turn the law bad? Should we still fufill it?

Romans 8:4 - "In order that the rightious requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the spirit."

I would suggest reading that in context.

Romans 8:7 - "The sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law nor can it do so."
Click to expand...
You do need to read it in context!


No, sin can never turn the law bad, but sin used what was good and holy to arouse all manner of concupiscence in Paul when he lived under a law of righteousness.

Romans 8:4 is a wonderful scripture
We follow after the holy spirit, not the letter of the law for the spirit will not lead us into conflict with any of the good and holy laws of God. However, your teachers insist we look to the literal letter of the law. I can assuredly tell you, none of them will understand Paul's Gospel message, therefore they will not truly understand the new covenant. For your sake( not mine) it is my earnest wish you remove yourself from them

Rom8:7 is great too


For sin shall NOT be your master for you are not under law( of righteousness) but under grace rom6 :14

You/ your teachers are preaching a law of righteousness to attain heaven
 
Last edited:
eternallife7

eternallife7

Senior Member
#110
May 19, 2015
659
6
0
#110
slave said:
"For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it." That verse was not said to improve our efforts in trying but in understanding we cannot get to God in that way. We only start the growing in obedience after the free gift, never for it. And you will never see God wearing the campaign button:: "Well the humans are better than they were at least."

What would we need to get more out of in Mainstream Christianity than Jesus Christ and the principles surrounding Him? If it is He Himself we are to follow and our growth and challenges come from Him in our daily walk thru His Spirit, how is this not enough in the mainstream Christian beliefs in His Word? I know it is definitely challenging so I am sure you don't mean that...

The Ten Commandments are Holy. But they were never to show us how we were to do anything. They were shown to show us what we couldn't do in ourselves, but what God will in us. We need to cling to the one that has changed us in our New Creation, from regeneration on...as He grows us up in Him.
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I would go one step further and say that when Hebrews tells us that the cross has made those who believe perfect and that we have been sprinkled with Christ' s blood as well as washed in pure water; that everything that trys to tell us otherwise, even the thoughts that appear in our head, has to be gainsaying. We are never sanctified by anything else other the what Christ has spoken to us.
 
J

james57

Banned
#111
Oct 21, 2015
2,420
12
0
#111
JFSurvivor said:
Key word here SIN. The commandment didn't do that. check out Romans 7:7-24

v.13: "Did which is good then become death to me? By no means! But in order that sin might be recognized as sin it produced death in me through which was good."

So did sin turn the law bad? Should we still fufill it?

Romans 8:4 - "In order that the rightious requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the spirit."

I would suggest reading that in context.

Romans 8:7 - "The sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law nor can it do so."
Click to expand...
And you have still not answered my question. In your view, must a person obey the literal letter of the ten commandments and the literal letter of Christs commandments to attain heaven. Or are Christs literal commands not as important in your view as the ten commandments, therefore do you believe only the ten commandments must be obeyed to attain heaven?
 
JFSurvivor

JFSurvivor

Senior Member
#112
Jan 20, 2015
1,184
25
0
#112
LanceA said:
Exodus 34:27-28 (NASB)
[SUP]27 [/SUP] Then the LORD said to Moses, "Write down these words, for in accordance with these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel."
[SUP]28 [/SUP] So he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did not eat bread or drink water. And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.

The ten commandments were part of the Old Covenant.

Hebrews 8:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.

Old Covenant was obsolete.
Click to expand...
Hebrews 8:10 The laws clearly weren't.

Exodus 34:1 God wrote the ten commandments

Exodus 34:6 is a great description of God

Deutoronimy 6:8 --> Revelation 13:16, Revelation 14:1 Scary stuff right here!!!
 
JFSurvivor

JFSurvivor

Senior Member
#113
Jan 20, 2015
1,184
25
0
#113
james57 said:
And you have still not answered my question. In your view, must a person obey the literal letter of the ten commandments and the literal letter of Christs commandments to attain heaven. Or are Christs literal commands not as important in your view as the ten commandments, therefore do you believe only the ten commandments must be obeyed to attain heaven?
Click to expand...
I'm honestly still learning about this stuff but a huge tip to me was Deutoronimy 6:8 and Revelation 13:16 and Revelation 14:1. So you tell me what you think. Because I think it plays a role.
 
J

james57

Banned
#114
Oct 21, 2015
2,420
12
0
#114
JFSurvivor said:
Hebrews 8:10 The laws clearly weren't.

Exodus 34:1 God wrote the ten commandments

Exodus 34:6 is a great description of God

Deutoronimy 6:8 --> Revelation 13:16, Revelation 14:1
Click to expand...
When the law was given sin increased rom5:20


I hope you will reflect on something. As you haven't answered my question I guess you feel you can obey the ten commandments but not Christs literal commands. Christ spoke the words of God on this earth. If you want to attain heaven by obeying the letter you will have to include Christs literal commands in that. How can you seperats God writing the ten commandments and Christ speaking commands by the word of God?

No one is saying they should kill, steal, commit adultery lie etc. However, you are looking to the literal letter to attain heaven. Paul states
The letter kill but the spirit gives life
 
J

james57

Banned
#115
Oct 21, 2015
2,420
12
0
#115
JFSurvivor said:
I'm honestly still learning about this stuff but a huge tip to me was Deutoronimy 6:8 and Revelation 13:16 and Revelation 14:1. So you tell me what you think. Because I think it plays a role.
Click to expand...
I'm sorry I'm not getting into the mark of the beast here. We are discussing righteousness and the law
I mean this sincerely, please learn of Paul's Gospel message before studying revelation, it is best that way
 
JFSurvivor

JFSurvivor

Senior Member
#116
Jan 20, 2015
1,184
25
0
#116
james57 said:
When the law was given sin increased rom5:20


I hope you will reflect on something. As you haven't answered my question I guess you feel you can obey the ten commandments but not Christs literal commands. Christ spoke the words of God on this earth. If you want to attain heaven by obeying the letter you will have to include Christs literal commands in that. How can you seperats God writing the ten commandments and Christ speaking commands by the word of God?

No one is saying they should kill, steal, commit adultery lie etc. However, you are looking to the literal letter to attain heaven. Paul states
The letter kill but the spirit gives life
Click to expand...
Please stop putting words in my mouth.
 
JFSurvivor

JFSurvivor

Senior Member
#118
Jan 20, 2015
1,184
25
0
#118
james57 said:
I'm sorry I'm not getting into the mark of the beast here. We are discussing righteousness and the law
I mean this sincerely, please learn of Paul's Gospel message before studying revelation, it is best that way
Click to expand...
the point I was trying to make was that there is a connection to the ten commandments and the end times.
 
J

james57

Banned
#119
Oct 21, 2015
2,420
12
0
#119
JFSurvivor said:
the point I was trying to make was that there is a connection to the ten commandments and the end times.
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We are not discussing the end times. Would you be willing to look at Paul's core Gospel message?
 
JFSurvivor

JFSurvivor

Senior Member
#120
Jan 20, 2015
1,184
25
0
#120
james57 said:
As you wont answer the question what else can i conclude?
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Because I can't!!! I CAME HERE CUZ I WAS EXCITED AND I WANTED TO SHARE WHAT I LEARNED!! NOT TO BE INTERROGATED!!! I have tried to explain myself so maybe if you go back and look at my previous posts you will understand what i am trying to say. Seriously you are not being fair or nice because you are not even thinking about what I have said. You are just spewing your views at me and it's hard to puts thoughts together when you are grilling me so harshly. Not only does it put people on the defensive but it does not get anything accomplished.
 
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