ENEMIES OF THE CROSS DOCTRINE

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Sep 3, 2016
1,524
45
48
#41
This is the problem, you do not present what the word of God says in plain words, but you attempt to take parts here and there and mix them with your own opinion to create some standard to "un-save" others, while you yourself do not keep the standard you would teach and lay upon others. This is not "loving others as yourself" this is loving yourself and allowing mercy for yourself, while attempting to condemn others by a standard you do not keep."
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
5,304
731
113
#42
This is the problem, you do not present what the word of God says in plain words, but you attempt to take parts here and there and mix them with your own opinion to create some standard to "un-save" others, while you yourself do not keep the standard you would teach and lay upon others. This is not "loving others as yourself" this is loving yourself and allowing mercy for yourself, while attempting to condemn others by a standard you do not keep."
Thanks kindly for the critic's view of The Expositor's Bible.

Now... how about answering my question?
 
Sep 4, 2012
14,142
557
113
#43
since scripture states we shall know the validity of a person by their 'fruit' I think anyone claiming to be sent from God, as Swaggart claims, should have a life that exemplifies someone led by the Holy Spirit and not a spirit of lust
Do you judge Solomon with the same measure?
 
Last edited:

7seasrekeyed

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2017
3,379
466
83
Florida
#44
Do you judge Solomon with the same measure?
apart from the fact that is a non sequitor, do you judge what is common knowledge by Solomon or by the standards God has laid out for us

as it is, we are told to judge ourselves but since Swaggart just keeps making excuses, he never did judge himself which means the entire world looks on and learns about his double life

for someone who does not care 'about the man' as you put it, you seem to be interested in putting him in a special place

perhaps you are putting what you think is good doctrine above a life that reflects purity and the life of Christ

that, IMO, might be the only way to justify the continued efforts of Swaggart to regain his little kingdom

people need to let go of their 'little gods' and follow Christ
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
3,779
78
48
#45
I'm the enemy of the crock doctrine some of you's promote on here...
 

7seasrekeyed

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2017
3,379
466
83
Florida
#46
This is the problem, you do not present what the word of God says in plain words, but you attempt to take parts here and there and mix them with your own opinion to create some standard to "un-save" others, while you yourself do not keep the standard you would teach and lay upon others. This is not "loving others as yourself" this is loving yourself and allowing mercy for yourself, while attempting to condemn others by a standard you do not keep."

I don't know who you wrote this to, but I'll address it anyway

you take bits and pieces of a strange Bible, written by Swaggart and seek to impose his particular interpretation on the entire body of Christ

you are a disciple of Swaggart

'go and sin no more' applies all around. you don't creep around 3 years after you 'confessed' with yet another prostitute and then say 'God told me to tell you that it is none of your business.'

does the standard set in scripture mean nothing at all to some people?

you go on and on about sin and claim Christians are demonized and if anyone does not agree with what you write then they are also enemies of the cross

you attempt to hold sway with fear and deliver scalding judgements that stem from the personal revelaton of Swaggart

but we already have the revelation we need to live for Christ and we know our sins are forgiven

Swaggart was defrocked by the Assemblies of God and decided to be his own god, take correction from no one and come up with the assertion he has a new revelation of the cross

time for people to see the flying monkeys and turn off the channel. the road to Swaggart's Oz is paved with the money of people who need discernment and they are being fleeced

apparently, he reportedly tells people to leave their church and just tune in to his messages

anyone can present their version of the gospel on tv and surprise surprise, there will always be people to tune in

flying monkeys
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
15,064
947
113
#48
1 Corinthians 1:18 - For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.

20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
 

LPT

Senior Member
Dec 24, 2017
612
57
28
50
#49
just a side note, the crucifix was a tee post, the notice Pilate had attached to the back of the tee post and was visible above Him for all to see and read in different languages, thus the cross, the only one in which a written notice was placed.
 

Lewiz

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2018
346
19
18
#50
I really do not understand this :confused:, the cross is not an ongoing event for Jesus nor for us.
Luke 14
25Now large crowds were going along with Him; and He turned and said to them,26“If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple. 27Whoever does not carry his own cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple.

 
Sep 4, 2012
14,142
557
113
#51
apart from the fact that is a non sequitor, do you judge what is common knowledge by Solomon or by the standards God has laid out for us

as it is, we are told to judge ourselves but since Swaggart just keeps making excuses, he never did judge himself which means the entire world looks on and learns about his double life

for someone who does not care 'about the man' as you put it, you seem to be interested in putting him in a special place

perhaps you are putting what you think is good doctrine above a life that reflects purity and the life of Christ

that, IMO, might be the only way to justify the continued efforts of Swaggart to regain his little kingdom

people need to let go of their 'little gods' and follow Christ
It's not a non sequitur at all. Both men wrote edifying things, were unfaithful with women and as a consequence destroyed their kingdoms. I have no idea what either man did regarding repenting of his sin. I'm not trying to justify Swaggert the man (because I don't know him), but to respect some of his discernment in the faith (from what little I've read).
 
Last edited:
Sep 4, 2012
14,142
557
113
#52
just a side note, the crucifix was a tee post, the notice Pilate had attached to the back of the tee post and was visible above Him for all to see and read in different languages, thus the cross, the only one in which a written notice was placed.
As I understand it the Romans affixed criminals' charges to their crosses
 
Sep 3, 2016
1,524
45
48
#53
1 Corinthians 1:18 - For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.

20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
​What appeared to be the biggest failure turned out to be the greatest victory the world has ever seen. Glory be to God.
 
Dec 28, 2016
5,998
247
63
#54
What is picking up your cross to you?
It really doesn't matter what it is "to her." I get your gist, but that is not how we determine meaning of Scripture, of course, you know this. But I digress, that is how she attempts to interpret it, and many others as well, by what it means "to her/them" not what it literally means.
 

LaurieB

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2018
157
5
18
#55
It really doesn't matter what it is "to her." I get your gist, but that is not how we determine meaning of Scripture, of course, you know this. But I digress, that is how she attempts to interpret it, and many others as well, by what it means "to her/them" not what it literally means.


In truth, no one can interpret Scripture "literally" as we all bring our own lense to it. What is even more important, though, is that we need to interpret it literately ... a huge difference ... meaning that we cannot read it like yesterday's newspaper, but must interpret in terms of the history, culture ... "the who" ... it was written to. Sometimes it is "literal" and at other times it is "metaphorical". Literal interpretation of the Bible is a 20th Century phenomenon. Prior to that, the Bible was not taken literally and was never meant to be taken in that way.
 

7seasrekeyed

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2017
3,379
466
83
Florida
#56
It's not a non sequitur at all. Both men wrote edifying things, were unfaithful with women and as a consequence destroyed their kingdoms. I have no idea what either man did regarding repenting of his sin. I'm not trying to justify Swaggert the man (because I don't know him), but to respect some of his discernment in the faith (from what little I've read).
so we judge if something is good or not by comparing sin to sin?

do you have any idea how silly that sounds? say it out loud. it might help :p

neither man is an example to the believer. God includes even sinful people in His word. David might have been a better example by the way

Solomon is not even slightly comparable to a NT believer. a believer in the sacrifice of Christ who is the final sacrifice

it really makes me puzzle why someone would say well this person had good discernment in this area so we will just give them a pass on their double life and look over the fact they refused any sort of counselling or accountability and as a result were defrocked from the denom affiliation they had been a part of since they began

I can't believe I even have to explain that

no offense

this is a major problem in Christianity. people pick and choose what they want to believe and apparently church discipline is one of those things that many believe are an obstacle to 'love' and 'forgiveness'

you don't cry in front of the entire globe one minute and say you have sinned (he was caught so how genuine was it?) and then go and find yourself in the same sin 3 years later and tell people it's none of their business. that is not God

my entire point is not for people to condemn Swaggart, but to point out that he is rogue and his message is off base

I don't see how his message could be anything but off base considering he never really came clean or allowed men of God to help him deal with his addiction

with so many excellent teachers and preachers of the word, why on earth would anyone latch onto this lame excuse?
 
Last edited:

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
5,770
534
113
#57
Literal interpretation of the Bible is a 20th Century phenomenon. Prior to that, the Bible was not taken literally and was never meant to be taken in that way.
That could create some serious problems. For example how would you interpret John 3:16 non-literally?
 
Mar 23, 2016
1,924
176
63
#58
"All things" are done through the Cross.
If you leave the Cross, you enter death!
Do you believe this?
I do not believe your statement "if you leave the Cross, you enter death" is accurate.

The cross is where we put to death our life in the flesh. However, this is just the beginning. What about the resurrection?



1 Corinthians 15:

1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures




1 Corinthians 15:14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.



1 Corinthians 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.



The purpose of the cross was to bring about the resurrection from the dead. It is in the resurrection that our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ conquered death.



Then there is the ascension. It is in the ascension of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ into heaven that we see the exceeding greatness of the power of God to us who believe. It is in the ascension into heaven that our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ reigns far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come. (See Eph 1:17-23)



MessageOfTheCross, do you believe God raised Jesus Christ from the dead?


 

jaybird88

Senior Member
Jan 7, 2015
4,115
98
48
#59
"All things" are done through the Cross.
If you leave the Cross, you enter death!
Do you believe this?
what exactly is "through the cross"? couldnt it mean what ever you wanted it to mean.
 
Sep 3, 2016
1,524
45
48
#60
I do not believe your statement "if you leave the Cross, you enter death" is accurate.

The cross is where we put to death our life in the flesh. However, this is just the beginning. What about the resurrection?



1 Corinthians 15:

1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures




1 Corinthians 15:14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.



1 Corinthians 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.



The purpose of the cross was to bring about the resurrection from the dead. It is in the resurrection that our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ conquered death.



Then there is the ascension. It is in the ascension of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ into heaven that we see the exceeding greatness of the power of God to us who believe. It is in the ascension into heaven that our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ reigns far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come. (See Eph 1:17-23)



MessageOfTheCross, do you believe God raised Jesus Christ from the dead?


As it regards the Cross of Christ versus the Resurrection, the great Apostle said:

“For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the Gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the Cross of Christ should be made of none effect” (1 Cor.1:17). If it is to be noticed, he did not say.“lest the Resurrection of Christ should be made of none effect.”


He also said, “For the preaching (Word) of the Cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are Saved it is the Power of God.” (1 Cor.1:18). He did not say, “For the preaching of the Resurrection is to them….”


The great Apostle also said, “But we preach Christ Crucified” (1 Cor. 1:23). He did not say, as it regards the Atonement,“We preach Christ Resurrected…”


Of course, Paul preached the Resurrection of Christ, even as Chapter 15 of 1 Corinthians bears out, but not as the Atonement.


He also stated to the Church at Corinth and to all others as well, “For I determined not to know any thing among you save Jesus Christ, and Him Crucified” (1 Cor. 2:2). He did not say, “For I determined not to know any thing among you save Jesus Christ, and Him Resurrected…”


He also stated, “But God forbid that I should glory, save in the Cross of our Lord Jesus Christ…” (Gal. 6:14). He did not say,“But God forbid that I should glory, save in the Resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ…”


As I have stated before on other discussions, while the Resurrection, and the Ascension, and the Exaltation of Christ were of extreme significance, these three tremendous attributes were the result of the Atonement, i.e., “the Cross,” instead of the cause.

JSM