Eternal security a fundamental truth of the Christian faith

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roaringkitten

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#1
Eternal security(I call it "if saved, always saved) has been one of the biggest truth's attacked today(btw, I do not support Calvinism). satan has plagued many churches into believing a born again Christian can lose his salvation. In fact, Dan Corner whom I exposed on another thread(http://christianchat.com/showthread.php?t=2672) , is a dangerous false teacher who attacks this truth. Modern bible versions can also make it easier for one to attack eternal security(which is why you should use the 1611 KJV).

One of the biggest mistakes made today from people who attack eternal security is that they take Scripture out of context(2 Timothy 2:15) and make doctrine off parables. Hebrews, James, and the parables are very popular means in trying to defend the heresy that a Christian can lose salvation. The fact is, there are some difficult passages in the Scriptures(2 Peter 3:16) that can be wrestled to one's own destruction. When we trust Jesus as the Savior for our sins, His righteousness is imputed on our record in heaven. What does the word "impute" mean? "Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works," Romans 4:6. Here is an excellent article explaining what "impute" means which should make it even more clear why Christians are eternally saved at the moment of faith: http://www.soulwinning.info/bd/imputation.htm

The very concept of losing one's salvation is an oxymoron in itself. Because, as I will show below, salvation(eternal life) is a PRESENT possession to the believer. If you could lose it, then it was false advertising(ie:you never really had it). You were born once physically, you were born once spiritually, BOTH cannot be undone.

1) "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life." John 5:24

Jesus declared a fundamental truth here. He said that one who has believed in Him hath(present possession) everlasting life and is(present possession) passed from death unto life. If a Christian could lose salvation, then he never really had eternal life. Our life is Christ's life when we're saved(Colossians 3:4) and Christ cannot die again(Romans 6:9-10). We are put into the body of Christ at salvation(Romans 12:5, 1 Corinthians 12:13, etc). It will be presented without blemish or spot(Ephesians 5:27). It could not be without blemish if a believer were taken from the body.

2)"These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God." 1 John 5:13

Again, notice the present possession tense "ye have". We are not only told that we have eternal life, but that we can KNOW that we have it! This is an ASSURANCE to us believers! If we could lose our salvation down the road, we could NEVER know now if we would ultimately end up with it. There would be NO assurance then. It would place the burden on believers to persevere in order to not lose it.

3)"Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee." Hebrews 13:5

Jesus made the same promise here too. He will NEVER leave or FORSAKE us! If a Christian could lose his salvation then of course this wouldn't be true! God cannot lie(Titus 1:2).

4)"And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely." Revelation 21:6

"And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely." Revelation 22:17

Read Romans 5:15-18 as well and notice the key phrase "free gift". A free gift is to be received, not worked for, because Christ accomplished(did all the work) that was necessary for salvation at Calvary(1 Peter 1:18-19, Romans 5:8-10). Notice Revelation 21:6 says "I will give unto him", and Revelation 22:17 says "let him take". Salvation is receiving, take it! If one could lose his salvation, then all his/her sins were not paid for at Calvary. When Christ died and paid for your sins in His own blood(Revelation 1:5), ALL your sins were future! He paid for ALL your sins(even the sins you committed as a Christian)-- See Romans 3:23-26.

5)"For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous." Romans 5:19

This verse makes it perfectly clear that it is by the perfect obedience of Christ(His righteousness) that we are made righteous. To say that one must persevere to not lose salvation, is to say that we are saved partly by our own righteousness(a fallacy declared in Romans 10:3-4, also see "And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work." Romans 11:6).

6)"In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory." Ephesians 1:13-14

"And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption." Ephesians 4:30

Our inheritance in heaven is incorruptible, undefiled, fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, and we are kept by the power of God(1 Peter 1:3-5). If we lost salvation, then that would mean our inheritance faded away from us! In fact, the Holy Spirit SEALS us with the promise of our eternal security! A seal cannot be broken or reversed! A perfect example about the seal being unbreakable is illustrated here:

"Write ye also for the Jews, as it liketh you, in the king's name, and seal it with the king's ring: for the writing which is written in the king's name, and sealed with the king's ring, may no man reverse." Esther 8:8

7)"Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also." John 14:1-3

Not only can our inheritance not fade away(ie:lose it), the Lord is preparing places for us believers! He is assuring us that He WILL come again and receive us unto Himself. If we could lose salvation, then the places he prepared for us were conditional upon our good works. That of course, is a lie of the devil. If He knew that some believers would ultimately lose their salvation, then He would only prepare places for those whom He knew would persevere. Not according to the Bible.

8)"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad." 2 Corinthians 5:8

This passage of Scripture declares that all believers will one day stand before the judgment seat of Christ(not to be dealt with as sinners, but to testify of our lives for Him. This is where we will gain or lose rewards-see 1 Corinthians 3:11-15). The unsaved stand before the great white throne judgment, to be dealt with as sinners and cast into the lake of fire(Revelation 20:11-12). The very fact that Christians who have done bad works will be at this judgment, is more proof that losing one's salvation is a lie of the devil.

9)"And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day." John 6:39

"And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand." John 10:28-29

These two verses above also prove a born again believer cannot lose his salvation. If a Christian was lost to hell, then Christ did lose something!(because we ARE something). No man, means NO man. Even yourself! You cannot pluck yourself out of the Lord's hand(I honestly dont know why some think they can since we are told that we are kept by God in 1 Peter 1:3-5). The very fact that God says "they shall NEVER perish" is more proof that a Christian cannot lose his salvation, or else he/she did in fact perish.

10)"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." Matthew 7:21-23

This passage above is scary. Because it says MANY will try and boast of their good works in the Lords name to get into heaven. You cannot mix works and faith("And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work." Romans 11:6) To those who say that we must do good works to the end to not lose salvation have fallen for this trap of satan and misunderstand a very important aspect of the Christian faith. No, the "will of my Father" in this passage does not mean good works(which would be an immediate contradiction within the passage and in the Word). The will of the Father is for one to BELIEVE on His Righteousness for their salvation(Dont believe me, look up John 6:40). It is also the will of the Father that those whom have believed, will not be lost(see John 6:39 above). Some deceitfully teach good works and faith are one and the same which is clearly refuted in the Word of God. Also note in the above Matthew passage that the Lord says that these sort of people NEVER knew Him! He did not say, "you once knew me but now you dont", in effect, none of these people lost salvation, because they never had it to begin with!

Let me illustrate eternal security as a worker 500 feet up on a bridge doing repair work. This worker has a safety harness. Who do you think will work more effectively? A worker 500 feet up who has no safety harness? Or a worker 500 feet up who has a safety harness? The worker that has a safety harness is assured that if he fell he would be caught and kept safe. This sort of worker works unhindered and more effectively repairing the bridge. The worker who is without a safety harness, constantly thinks about the possibility of falling. Not only does he worry about it, he cant work effectively since one tiny misstep could mean his death.

You see, the worker who is assured of his safety is free to work and is effective. The worker who is not assured of his safety dwells on the possibility of falling which makes him ineffective in his work. I've met many professing Christians who are constantly worried that they might have lost salvation. They dwell on that horror and it hinders them from serving the Lord in full capacity("For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father" Romans 8:15).. Dont for a moment think that ANY sin(from the smallest to the biggest) is acceptable to God even as a Christian. Sin is wickedness in God's eyes. In fact God says this about how bad ANY sin is:

"For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all." James 2:10

"Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin." James 4:17

".....for whatsoever is not of faith is sin." Romans 14:23

For a professing Christian to say he/she will go to heaven and another Christian go to hell based on his/her bad works(not enough good works) is prideful and hypocritical. Because it becomes a "comparison" thing and we ALL sin as Christians(whether it be small or big) but when we do, we have an advocate- Jesus the righteous(1 John 2:1). We will all be free from sin when we are like the Lord in His appearing(Psalm 17:15, 1 John 3:2). When you hear someone say that a Christian can lose his salvation based on bad works, what they are saying is that good works(repenting from sins-ie-turning from sins) will get you saved again(which is clearly unBiblical because it wasn't good works or partly our good works to begin with which got us saved- Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:5, Romans 4:5, etc). Here is a good quote that shows this fallacy:

"If salvation can be lost by our own sinful words, attitudes, or actions, then self-righteousness is part of salvation."

I pray that those who dont understand eternal security would understand this Biblical truth. The testimony that one thinks a Christian can lose his salvation makes me worried that they may have never trusted ONLY on Christ to save them(which would be a terrible eternal mistake). To those who understand this truth, please dont ever believe the devilish lie that a born again Christian can lose their salvation. Nowhere in the Bible does ANY saint lose his/her salvation. Judas Iscariot didn't lose his salvation because he was never saved to begin with(NO Scriptural evidence that he was saved-he walked with Jesus but he didn't KNOW Him). The Bible declares he was a thief(see these passages- Luke 22:3, John 12:3-8, John 13:2). After he betrayed Jesus he saw that it was innocent blood and hung himself(Matthew 27:3-5).

Many claim that we teach a license for immorality for believing this core doctrine(like false teacher Dan Corner). In fact, it is the devil who falsely accuses us of teaching a license for immorality. If you want a thorough step through on eternal security, go to the link below which has over 200 Bible verses defending this doctrine:

http://www.biblebelievers.com/montgomery/montgomery002.html

In Christ, rk
 
Apr 23, 2009
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#2
Eternal security(I call it "if saved, always saved) has been one of the biggest truth's attacked today(btw, I do not support Calvinism). satan has plagued many churches into believing a born again Christian can lose his salvation. In fact, Dan Corner whom I exposed on another thread(http://christianchat.com/showthread.php?t=2672 ) , is a dangerous false teacher who attacks this truth. Modern bible versions can also make it easier for one to attack eternal security(which is why you should use the 1611 KJV).
You can easily disprove the lie of eternal security using the ''1611 KJV''. You need no other version to prove that eternal security is false. Can we have assurance of our salvation? yes, but is the teaching of eternal security biblical or true? NO
 
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Dread_Zeppelin

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#3
Honestly I'm not sure people should care. All that matters to me is if they die a Christian in the end.
 
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Slepsog4

Guest
#5
Roaring kitten,

although you deny it you really do adhere to elements of Calvinism. Eternal security as you state it is a false doctrine. There are too many warnings and too many exhortations to be faithful. These would be unnecessary if it were not possible to fall.

Also you mention that Jesus' righteousness is imputed to us. This too is a false doctrine. No text states such. Our faith in Christ is credited to us as righteousness.
 
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motojojo

Guest
#6
Why do people speak of making it to heaven by a thin thread, whats wrong with getting it right, right now today. Lets go to the promise land whats in our way, ourselves and the lie that we can't. We look at these obstacles and say we can't do it, there giants there to big. I say with Christ we can over come and we can walk in heaven everyday on this earth. And it starts with love one another as I have loved you.
 
Jan 31, 2009
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#7
thanks so much for this thread, Kitten , I too Bank my salvation on the works Of Christ My Lord and Saviour, not my works, when many get to the heavenly Gates and are asked why they should be allowed to come in they will say look what we did. we did this, we did that, but when I get there I will say Because mercy and Grace was appllied through the Precious Blood of Jesus. My faith is what Jesus did for me not what i could do for Him
 
Apr 23, 2009
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#8
thanks so much for this thread, Kitten
Why would you thank someone for teaching satanic lies?
I too Bank my salvation on the works Of Christ My Lord and Saviour, not my works
Me too... :)
My faith is what Jesus did for me not what i could do for Him
And what would happen if you were to loose your faith?
 
Jan 31, 2009
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#9
Why would you thank someone for teaching satanic lies? Me too... :) And what would happen if you were to loose your faith?
Jude 1:24Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

I didn't thank you for teaching lies about losing your salvation I thanked kitten for sharing the truth

The Great I Am would hold me up and keep me from falling
 
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1Covenant

Senior Member
Sep 14, 2009
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#10
Roaring kitten,
although you deny it you really do adhere to elements of Calvinism. Eternal security as you state it is a false doctrine. There are too many warnings and too many exhortations to be faithful. These would be unnecessary if it were not possible to fall.
Amen and by historical standards its called - Perseverance of the Saints.
 
Apr 23, 2009
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Amen and by historical standards its called - Perseverance of the Saints.
This coming from someone you believes John Calvin is a early church father....lol, how hilarious, and kind of sad at the same time.
 
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motojojo

Guest
#12
Someone please explain to me how that being a better person is works.Yes Christ died on the cross for us and that is our salvation but to not be renewed daily and become better and more Christ like is our journey to GOD. Many expect to MAKE IT and will say LORD LORD look at what we have done and HE will say but I never knew you. Many think they know Him and don't they believe the lies or doctrines of demons. In-fact many think GOD don't see the sinner that they are when God looks at them HE see's Christ. Wake up and repent of our sins because the END is near, GODS cup of wrath is full and except for the prayers of the Saints it would be pouring out on the Foolish virgins that ARE NOT FULL OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. Sorry for the rant I humbly bow to you all now please let me hear your False teachings as you attack like you always do.
 
Apr 23, 2009
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Someone please explain to me how that being a better person is works.Yes Christ died on the cross for us and that is our salvation but to not be renewed daily and become better and more Christ like is our journey to GOD. Many expect to MAKE IT and will say LORD LORD look at what we have done and HE will say but I never knew you. Many think they know Him and don't they believe the lies or doctrines of demons. In-fact many think GOD don't see the sinner that they are when God looks at them HE see's Christ. Wake up and repent of our sins because the END is near, GODS cup of wrath is full and except for the prayers of the Saints it would be pouring out on the Foolish virgins that ARE NOT FULL OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. Sorry for the rant I humbly bow to you all now please let me hear your False teachings as you attack like you always do.
Amen, awesome post. Keep speaking truth to them brother. Whether they will hear you or not at least you have done as God has commanded, and their blood will not be on your hands.
 

1Covenant

Senior Member
Sep 14, 2009
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#14
This coming from someone you believes John Calvin is a early church father....lol, how hilarious, and kind of sad at the same time.
I think the fruit of your faith is on display. I'll let you decide whether it reflects well.

BTW, I was quite clear that the post was concerning creeds and orthodoxy not a church father in my first sentence. It was Calvin's commentary on the apostles creed which for orthodox reason, which many protestant agree with the conclusions of calvin, I thought I would post. For you to imply the slander borders bearing false witness.
 
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shad

Guest
#15
Someone please explain to me how that being a better person is works.Yes Christ died on the cross for us and that is our salvation but to not be renewed daily and become better and more Christ like is our journey to GOD. Many expect to MAKE IT and will say LORD LORD look at what we have done and HE will say but I never knew you. Many think they know Him and don't they believe the lies or doctrines of demons. In-fact many think GOD don't see the sinner that they are when God looks at them HE see's Christ. Wake up and repent of our sins because the END is near, GODS cup of wrath is full and except for the prayers of the Saints it would be pouring out on the Foolish virgins that ARE NOT FULL OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. Sorry for the rant I humbly bow to you all now please let me hear your False teachings as you attack like you always do.
When God looks at you personally, what does He see?
 
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motojojo

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#16
He sees a green knobby worm so poor and wretched, that puts Christ to the cross every time I sin.
 
Jan 31, 2009
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Someone please explain to me how that being a better person is works.Yes Christ died on the cross for us and that is our salvation but to not be renewed daily and become better and more Christ like is our journey to GOD. Many expect to MAKE IT and will say LORD LORD look at what we have done and HE will say but I never knew you. Many think they know Him and don't they believe the lies or doctrines of demons. In-fact many think GOD don't see the sinner that they are when God looks at them HE see's Christ. Wake up and repent of our sins because the END is near, GODS cup of wrath is full and except for the prayers of the Saints it would be pouring out on the Foolish virgins that ARE NOT FULL OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. Sorry for the rant I humbly bow to you all now please let me hear your False teachings as you attack like you always do.

as far as I know I never said that we shouldn't have good works, and don't think anyone else has said this. all i am saying is that those good works aren't what saves you or neither what keeps you saved


1co 3:10According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.1co 3:11For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.1co 3:12Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;1co 3:13Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.1co 3:14If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.1co 3:15If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
 
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shad

Guest
#18
He sees a green knobby worm so poor and wretched, that puts Christ to the cross every time I sin.
You seem to think and believe that our repentance has the power to remove sin from our life. Repentance is when God gives us the ability to turn from who we are in our old sin nature and the sins it produces and turn unto Christ and receive grace because our sins have been paid for and judged by Christ. Grace is what removes sin from our life through the blood of Christ. When we sin as believers there is no condemnation but we need to confess our sin before God and receive grace to be restored in our fellowship with the Father and the Son. Every sin we may commit has already been judged through death and the Father acknowledges that work that was accomplished by His Son. Our relationship with the Father was secured by Christ when we believed but our fellowship can be broken through personal sin.

Do you believe when we confess our sin before God that He gives us grace and forgives us and the blood cleanses us from that sin? Do you also believe that if we continue in that sin and do not receive grace, that God will chastise us as a son whom He loves and restore us that way, to bring us back into fellowship with Him?
 
Apr 23, 2009
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Do you believe when we confess our sin before God that He gives us grace and forgives us and the blood cleanses us from that sin? Do you also believe that if we continue in that sin and do not receive grace, that God will chastise us as a son whom He loves and restore us that way, to bring us back into fellowship with Him?
I know you were asking Motojojo, However i say yes to all these questions. When we repent, then God forgive and cleanses us. However if we continue in our sin then that is not repentance, and we do remain in our sin. It is also true that God will chastise us He loves and can bring us back into fellowship with Him, if we yield to His chastisement, repent, and remiss from our sins.
 
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sword

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#20
Jesus said: "He who endures till the end will be saved".
 
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