Eternal security a fundamental truth of the Christian faith

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shad

Guest
#41
Enduring till the end doesn´t mean being infallible but persevering in the faith, even though we may sin sometimes. So if we stop persevering in the faith and start living like the world does and die that way then hell will wait for us:
Could you please explain for me what it means from your point of view to persevere in the faith even though you may sin sometimes?
 
Sep 27, 2009
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#42
And that's where the disconnect comes in, right there.

If G-d's children obey G-d's voice, it does not mean that doing so is how we claim our salvation. When I stand in Judgment in the Holy Court, I will not do so as a man wrongly accused. I'll KNOW that my actions deserve death. But I'll have the best defense attorney money can't buy, and He's willing to take my rightful punishment; in fact, already has.

It is by His blood alone that I can be reconciled to our Father, and yet because I am so grateful for this gift, I want to emulate Him, and lead as close to His lifestyle as I can.

It also shows gratititude towards G-d for accepting Messiah as my substitute, since in following Messiah's ways, I am also doing what G-d asks of His followers.
 
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sword

Guest
#43
Even though we christians are not sinners anymore because Jesus set us free; we still sin sometimes because of our human weakness but if we let sin enslave us again; it will mean that we have stopped persevering in the faith and therefore lost our salvation. Even though mere obedience doesn´t save us it is a signal that we are persevering in the faith else we may be lost forever.
 
Sep 27, 2009
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#44
You say christians are not sinners anymore. I beg to differ. Being saved does not make us perfect. It just makes us forgiven.
 
Apr 23, 2009
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#45
Even though we christians are not sinners anymore because Jesus set us free; we still sin sometimes because of our human weakness but if we let sin enslave us again; it will mean that we have stopped persevering in the faith and therefore lost our salvation. Even though mere obedience doesn´t save us it is a signal that we are persevering in the faith else we may be lost forever.
You say christians are not sinners anymore. I beg to differ. Being saved does not make us perfect. It just makes us forgiven.
There is a big difference between sinning and being a sinner, and I think sword demonstrates that difference in his post.
 
L

Lifelike

Guest
#46
Why do people speak of making it to heaven by a thin thread, whats wrong with getting it right, right now today. Lets go to the promise land whats in our way, ourselves and the lie that we can't. We look at these obstacles and say we can't do it, there giants there to big. I say with Christ we can over come and we can walk in heaven everyday on this earth. And it starts with love one another as I have loved you.
beautiful mate.
 
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sword

Guest
#47
Christianity is not a sweet and comfortable religion but a way of affliction and trials that only the chosen will go through:
Colossians 1

23If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister; 24Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church
 
Sep 27, 2009
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#48
There is a big difference between sinning and being a sinner, and I think sword demonstrates that difference in his post.
No, there's not. There's no difference whatsoever. A sinner is one who sins. That is the meaning of "sinner."

Unless, of course, you believe in the unbiblical idea of original sin, that our mere existance is some sort of crime against G-d... but if that's the case, I dunno what to tell you..
 
A

Anna1

Guest
#49
Hi guys,

interesting discussion. I don't have so much wisdom in this area, but I found an article I thought was pretty good that deals a little bit with this topic.

An excerpt is here:

"The Bible mentions a time-sensitive issue in Romans 13:11,
“…for now our salvation is nearer than when we first believed.”
Most people are of the opinion that one is “saved” at a certain point in time, and that there is no more to salvation from then on, or at least that it is not mentioned again in the present tense. For many it is a concept frozen in the past. “Didn’t I get saved when I first believed?” But here it is written that salvation is nearer than it was at that time. In other words, it must also occur in the present tense; at least the opportunity must be there to become more saved...."
For the rest of the article, follow the link...
http://www.brunstad.org/en/Edification/Now-is-the-time.aspx?ABC=cc
Anna.
 
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shad

Guest
#50
Even though we christians are not sinners anymore because Jesus set us free; we still sin sometimes because of our human weakness but if we let sin enslave us again; it will mean that we have stopped persevering in the faith and therefore lost our salvation. Even though mere obedience doesn´t save us it is a signal that we are persevering in the faith else we may be lost forever.
I don't think I have the same understanding about salvation as you do. Would you explain the kind of salvation you are referring to? And what do you mean by being set free? If you strongly believe that you can lose your salvation that God provided you by grace, how will you ever get it back or find it again? Is not the salvation that God has provided for us based upon the merits of Jesus Christ and did not Christ deal with the very sins that we were in bondage to that you believe can cause us to lose our salvation? How can we be set free from sin if we can lose our salvation through the sin we are set free from? If we sin or even backslide into sin, that grieves the Holy Spirit in us but it does not stop the work of grace that God has imputed to us through the Holy Spirit when we were saved. We can stop taking up our cross and following Christ and forsake Him in that manner as Peter did, but He will never forsake us or leave us because of the work of redemption that He started in our life. We may be miserable and live in guilt because of sin and have a rebellious attitude in our heart, but God will be faithful to draw us back through His lovingkindness and gentleness because He loves us with an everlasting love.
 
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sword

Guest
#51
we are saved from our past sins but we will have to answer for the future ones.
 
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shad

Guest
#52
we are saved from our past sins but we will have to answer for the future ones.
I assume that when you refer to past sins you mean the ones that we committed before we were saved by the grace and mercy of God. I am not trying to be funny here but how could Jesus Christ take only our past sins and pay for those with His blood and not all our sins? Surely He knew that we would have times of sin in our life after we were saved and don't you think that those sins were also paid for and judged on the cross as well? Are you saying that the sins we committed before salvation were covered by the blood of Christ but the ones we commit after salvation the blood does not cover and we are responsible for those sins? If we are responsible for those sins after salvation, how do we deal with them outside the blood of Christ? Are these the sins we have to worry about because they have the power to make us lose our salvation?
 
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Biblequestions

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#53
What i find strange is that people who believe in eternal security/ once saved always saved acuse those who believe a person can lose his salvtion satanic, and vice versa!
So Satan is deceiving both camps? Who should i believe? I believe Christ. My view on this, is to love GOD and produce the fruit of righteousness stay on the VINE (Jesus Christ). without love all things are vain.
I believe nobody can earn salvation, but if Christ saved us and we love Him, arent we going to faithfully obey Him till the very end? Unworthy servants who did what we were told to do.
Now i find it strange some people think a person accepted Christ, but later in his life commits adultery and never repents still goes to heaven... I just dont get that, they will say 'well he was never saved to begin with' . I dont understand all this doctrinal confusement.
 
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Biblequestions

Guest
#54
Bye the way, im so confused by all this doctrine, that i dont even believe what i just said. LOL. God have mercy with me. May the HOLY SPIRIT lead us. God bless you all.
 
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Twilight

Guest
#55
we are saved from our past sins but we will have to answer for the future ones.
Okay, I don't neccesarily believe in once saved, always saved. Maybe I am somewhere in the middle. The Word says:

"If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive our sin and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness" and:

"I write this to you that you do not sin, but if anyone does sin, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous." (Sorry, don't have references off hand)

So this takes care of the sin issue after salvation. We need to repent daily. And continue to ask and seek to walk in greater holiness. Enduring to the end, I believe, has to do with our faith, for we are "justified by faith" and our whole Christian life is to be lived by faith: "...and the life I now live, I live by faith in the Son of God who loved me and gave Himself up for me." As we continue to persevere in our aim of being more and more like Christ through faith in His power in us, and not give up as we are sometimes tempted to do, then, I believe, we are "enduring." We also need to get our lamps full of oil so that we will be able to endure when things get real rough, as the the world is going in that direction.

Peace out!
 
J

Jezreel

Guest
#56
In Matthew chapter 22 Jesus tells his disiples about the parable of the wedding feast. Well, at the end, Jesus comes upon a man at the wedding feast that does not have a wedding garment on. He asks him where his wedding garment on and the man was speechless. Jesus told his servants to bind him hand and foot and cast him into outer darkness. There are other parables all over the place where Jesus tells his servants to get ahold of the "evil servant" and bind them hand and foot and cast them into outer darkness.
Also, Jesus said that he is the door to the sheepfold, and if any man climb up and enter in by any other way other than Jesus being the door, he is a thief and a robber, so here is seems possible for a person that would be able to partake and tasted of the heavenly gift (the gifts and calling of God are without repentance) and have tasted of the good word of God and the powers of the world to come If they fall away to renew themselves again unto repentance etc (Hebrews 6) they crucify God afresh and put him to an open shame. He that bears thorns and briars is rejected and nigh unto cursing. (By their fruits you shall know them)
It is wonderful to pray that God would make our hearts good ground for his seed. Being confident of this very thing that he who has started a good work will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ. The Lord know them that are his and that every man that names the name of Jesus Christ depart from iniquity.
I do pray for myself that on that day when he comes that he will say to me, "I know you".
 
T

Twilight

Guest
#57
So, Jezreel, how do you believe we endure to the end, in practical terms?
 
T

Twilight

Guest
#58
Oh, BTW, I agree with what you said, just like some clarification. Thanks! :)
 
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Slepsog4

Guest
#59
When one comes to faith in Christ and obeys the gospel he is forgiven of his existing sins. At the same time one is put in Christ.

Our future sins are dependent upon our continued faith in Christ. 1 John 1:5-10 is the key to ongoing forgiveness.. as we walk in the light... if we confess he is faithful and just to forgive us.. the blood of his son cleanses us from all unrighteousness.

We die to sin and can no longer live in it. We cannot excuse it or deny it
 
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Jezreel

Guest
#60
Through the mystery of Jesus Christ and his church. A man shall leave mother and father and cleave unto his wife and they shall become one flesh and one spirit, but I speak concerning Christ and his church and besides that, I don't know all the answers, I wish I did. I know that the word of God also says that "it was better that they had never known the way of righteousness than to have known it and turn away from his holy commandments. As a dog returns to it's vomit and a pig returns to wallow in the mire.
That is because a dog is a dog, and a pig is a pig. They do what their nature dictates in their hearts. We are supposed to be his sheep, but I at times prefer to be an eagle.
 
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