Eternal Security - If saved, always saved! Part 1. - By David Stewart

[Grandpa]

Thats sweet, but why not let the Bible tell you what your duty is instead of yourself?

Luke 17:10 So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do

Eg says Jesus said this to Israel so it was ONLY their Job to their duty.

That is absurd. Jesus gave this illustration to teach all men, their responsibility to God.

To say this does not apply to us, is to flat out reject the words of Christ.

SO what do you think?

Here is the remote context that supports what Jesus said is to all men:

Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man

Do you think that mans duty of keeping his commands stopped in the NT, Like Eg teaches?

You speak of "abiding in the vine", what does it mean to abide in the vine? Can you abide in the vine without keeping his commands?

1Jn 2:6 He that saith he abideth in himought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

The word " ought" in this passages, is the same Greek word found in Luke 17:10 that means your "duty".

"duty" and "ought" are both from the same word "phelio"
Definition:
opheilō / opheileō
Thayer Definition:
1) to owe
1a) to owe money, be in debt for
1a1) that which is due, the debt
2) metaphorically the goodwill due
Part of Speech: verb

So John is saying here, if you abide in Him, it is your obligation, duty, you owe, your debt, to walk as HE did.

Just as Jesus said "keeping his commands" is our "duty". You two really think we dont have to do our duty?

How did he walk?
8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

So that's how he walked, the next passages is clear that we do the same:
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him

I am showing you scripture, I am interpreting passages with other passages, words with the usage of the same word.

You all keep writing these long statements of your faith, which consist of only your opinions.

I Jn 2:6 shows what one needs to do to ABIDE in HIM grandpa.

YOu and EG are saying, we do NOT have to keep our duty to God, and EG is say now it is impossible to stop sinning. (wonder why he would think that?)

He also tells you one who has not repented and shown a changed life was never saved, now he says it's impossible to stop??????

He does not understand it is licentiousness to teach their are no eternal consequence for sin among the Christians.

that implies a christian can sin and still go to heaven. Which contradicts much of the Bible, and himself saying one must repent.

It does not matter if he will not explicit say this, and hide it under "you should not sin, your life here will be miserable", of course that is not true at all.

Many indulge in sin, live for the world, in the world, and enjoy every minute of it. They may have been chastised at one time, yet obviously they did not hear, and continued in their serving the god of this world.

Listen to the word of God, by it you will be judged - Jn 12:48 - the same word Jesus spoke to Israel and us.

Jn 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

Those who "reject" him, and "recieve" not his words are not limited to the Jews.

Anyone who says we can live in sin and go to heaven are "rejecting him" and "not receiving" his words.

EG will not receive Luke 17:10 as he says it does not apply to us, but the Jews. EG it would do you some good to read the passage below:

I Pet 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? 18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear

1. Christians will be judged eternally
2. Those who "do not obey the gospel" (not believe, obey) will fact God's wrath.
3. If the righteousness are "scarcely saved" barley saved -whats the point? see below
4. How shall the ungodly AND SINNER in which EG teaches it's impossible not to be?

How long will you all reject the words of Christ? one day it will be too late to repent, do it now.

Galatians 3:21-29
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Your "duty" of obeying the Law is supposed to get you somewhere. It is supposed to bring you to the realization that you can't perform the demands of God. You need a saviour. It is by faith in God that a person receives this wisdom.

John 15:1-13
1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.
10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
11 These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.
12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

I wasn't trying to be cute, or sweet, I was trying to show you the commands of Jesus Christ. Our actual duty as christians. The gospel, the good news.

 

[Grandpa]

A question for you Grandpa. What does it take to be saved?

John 6:29-58
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?
31 Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat.
32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.
33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.
34 Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.
35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
41 The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven.
42 And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?
43 Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves.
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.
47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
48 I am that bread of life.
49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.
50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.
51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
52 The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat?
53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.
58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.

 

[feedm3]

Galatians 3:21-29
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Your "duty" of obeying the Law is supposed to get you somewhere. It is supposed to bring you to the realization that you can't perform the demands of God. You need a saviour. It is by faith in God that a person receives this wisdom.

John 15:1-13
1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.
10If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
11 These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.
12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

I wasn't trying to be cute, or sweet, I was trying to show you the commands of Jesus Christ. Our actual duty as christians. The gospel, the good news.

Your "duty" of obeying the Law is supposed to get you somewhere. It is supposed to bring you to the realization that you can't perform the demands of God. You need a saviour. It is by faith in God that a person receives this wisdom.

Grandpa, Gal is concerning the Law of Moses. When did I tell you that you must obey Moses' law?

You always run to this as if you cant read the context, and try mix in our obedience with keeping the law of Moses. Very dishonest and only fooling yourself.

You know we are not say this. You also know what Jesus said in Luke 17:10 which YOU will not address, you just keep repeating passages that prove we are not under the law of Moses. Great, I know this. Now tell me, how does that mean we do not have to obey God?

Second, it is not "my duty" as Jesus said it was the duty of any servant.

You are purposely being willfully ignorant so that you wont understand what you MUSt do. Ignorance is no excuse, especially when it's ignorance on purpose.

"if ye keep my commands" It seems you already know the answer to properly interpret what it means to believe.

 

[megaman125]

John 6:29-58
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?
31 Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat.
32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.
33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.
34 Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.
35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
41 The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven.
42 And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?
43 Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves.
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.
47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
48 I am that bread of life.
49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.
50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.
51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
52 The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat?
53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.
58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.

Would that not be obeying the Bible and God?

 

[ChosenbyHim]

Okay, look, were starting to get insulting to each other, I dont want to do that if we are going to speak. I am sorry if I am being rude, I will stop the smart alec comments.

If I say something offensive let me know.

No problem Feedm3. Okay, I will. I admit you were the bigger man to apologize first. I also apologize for my sarcasm and my unkind remarks, I ask for your forgiveness.

And do you think I should break them down, refute everything that is them, so you can NOT read them?

That is your call Feedm3. I am leaving that up to you.

You should have pasted Bible, not endless doctrines of men. I need not to paste anyone writing to refute you. I have easily done so with passages. So I would like you to do the same.

Well Feedm3, with all due respect, you have not refuted me. I used the writings of other men since they were using Scripture to back up their defense of the Eternal Security and Eternal Salvation of the Church Age saint and Christian. If these men were not using Scripture to back up their talk, then I would not have posted their work and their essays. But they used lots of Scripture and they also rightly divided the holy Scriptures.

This is why I asked you a quesitn concerning Luke 17:10, to show keeping his commands is a duty, not a good deed work.

I said this so you would not dwell on salvation by earning, through works. If you still want to go ahead.

If you continue using that, then answer these to yourself, here is the question again:

1. Is repentance and obedience as "keeping his commands" a work or the duty of a Christian? Please answer according to Luke 17:10

9 Doth he thank that servant because he did the things that were commanded him? I trow not.
10 So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do. - Luke 17:9-10 (KJB)



Well, I do not see what the difference is between a work and a duty. I mean when we go to our 9-5 jobs, don't we have a list of duties which we must complete before the day is up and over?

And aren't those duties a part of our work?

I do believe we as Christians have duties to do. And from reading Scripture, I believe that a Christians duties include the following:

1)Love the Brethren (Hebrews 13:1)

2)Pray without Ceasing ( 1 Thessalonians 5:17)

3) Study the Bile and study it Dispensaitionally(2 Timothy 2:15)
And among these, some more as well. Now I know that you wanted me to answer your question according to Luke 17:10, but I also had to tie the Church Age doctrine in there. Now here is a commandment found in the Gospel of John, and it is a commandment of Jesus Christ:

And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. - 1 John 3:23

Now, I believe to answer your question, we must look at Acts 20:21 (KJB)

Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ. - Acts 20:21 (KJB)

I believe repentance is a change of mind toward God, while believing on the Lord Jesus Christ (placing faith in the Lord Jesus Christ). So, I do not believe that repentance is a work. I just believe it is part of truly believing on the Lord Jesus Christ. Now, I believe that obedience to the commands of Christ and Paul naturally follow in a believer's life. Since he has been quickened and been given a new nature. (See Ephesians 2:1 and Colossians 3:10) And understand that doing our duties as a Christian has no part of whether or not wee will keep our salvation, since we are kept by the power of God and are sealed with God's Holy Spirit. (See 1 Peter 1:5 and Ephesians 1:13, Ephesians 4:30)

2. If one does his "duty" does that mean he is deserving of a reward, or he "earned anything?

If you answer honestly, you will see, anyone with the attidude of thinking obeying God deserves anything is full of pride, as Luke 17 says, even after we keep all that is commanded, we are STILL unprofitable servants.

You mean by "refuted" you just disagreed, and didn't show any reasons why? that's all you did, was make a statement of what you believe.

But I also defended my belief with Scripture and I kept those Scriptures in the correct dispensations.

You are disagreeing NOT refuting. I dont mind you disagreeing, but you keep saying you refuted me, that would mean you showed logical valid arguments that make more sense then mine, that would be a refutation.

Yes there is. It is in the Bible. Here let give you the Scriptures so you can read them:

The coming of the Messiah, and establishment of His church - Matt 16:18, the new covenant with Israel and Judah, as well as the Gentiles. IT HAS BEEN FULFILLED BY THE NEW TESTAMENT CHURCH

Well Jesus Christ came first to this earth about 2,000 years ago. That was His first coming. At His first coming He came as a Lamb (See John 1:29 KJB) We are still awaiting the Rapture of the Church (Catching away of the Saints) and the Second Coming of Jesus Christ which will take place after the time of Jacobs trouble (7 year tribulation). And at Christs second coming, He will be the Lion of the Tribe of Judah (See Revelation 5:5 KJB).

 

[ChosenbyHim]

The Place God dwells now is IN the Christian, because the Christian is NOW part of HIS body, and His body is the church.

Exactly, that is correct. And that is why we cannot lose our salvation. Because we are hid in Christ and are in Him.

Written to the Corintian CHURCH:
II Cor 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people

Written to the ROMAN CHURCH:
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his

I Cor 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit

Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence

19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; 21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord

I agree with those Scriptures. Now how does that disprove or deny the 1,000 year millennial reign of Jesus Christ? Remember I gave you other Scriptures as well that are referring to the time when Christ will rule and reign on this Earth from the Capital of Jerusalem. Again, here are the Scriptures:

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. - Revelation 20:6 (KJB)

And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth. - Revelation 5:10 (KJB)

And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: 2 And the spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord;
3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the Lord: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:
4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth: with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.
6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.
9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea.
10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.
11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.
12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.
13 The envy also of Ephraim shall depart, and the adversaries of Judah shall be cut off: Ephraim shall not envy Judah, and Judah shall not vex Ephraim.
14 But they shall fly upon the shoulders of the Philistines toward the west; they shall spoil them of the east together: they shall lay their hand upon Edom and Moab; and the children of Ammon shall obey them.
15 And the Lord shall utterly destroy the tongue of the Egyptian sea; and with his mighty wind shall he shake his hand over the river, and shall smite it in the seven streams, and make men go over dryshod.
16 And there shall be an highway for the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria; like as it was to Israel in the day that he came up out of the land of Egypt. - Isaiah 11 (KJB)


Now how can you over look those Scriptures?

EZE 43:5-7 FULFILLED

I don't think so. Here is why:

5 So the spirit took me up, and brought me into the inner court; and, behold, the glory of the Lord filled the house.
6 And I heard him speaking unto me out of the house; and the man stood by me.
7 And he said unto me, Son of man, the place of my throne, and the place of the soles of my feet, where I will dwell in the midst of the children of Israel for ever, and my holy name, shall the house of Israel no more defile, neither they, nor their kings, by their whoredom, nor by the carcases of their kings in their high places.


Notice it says "Where I will dwell in the midst of the Children of Israel for ever." It says Children of Israel.



It does not say the Gentile Believers. So, how do you take this Scripture and apply it to the Church Age when in this Dispensation, God is still dealing with the Gentiles?


And not the Jews and Israel. In the Time of Jacobs trouble; however, God will be dealing with the Nation of Israel again.

Here again, the church:

"his Tabernacle":
Heb 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building

3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God

Actually, this Scripture you just gave, it is referring to the time period after the Great White Throne Judgment when the New Jerusalem and New Heaven is sighted and seen by the Apostle John in his vision which God gives him. And do not forget, the 1,000 year millennial reign of Jesus Christ has already concluded, since after that period, Satan is released and loosed from the Bottomless pit where he can go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth.

The "everlasting covenant":

HEB 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: 9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: 11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away

EZE 37:26-F. FULFILLED

How though? You are giving and citing the Scriptures, but how do you interpret that to apply to the church age right now? Remember this is Hebrews.

This is concerning the NEW Covenant, and it's inclusion of the Gentiles:

I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: 11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

"his neighbor and bother" is showing every man ONLY taught other Jews in the first covenant, but under the NEW they will not limit themselves to the "neighbors and brothers" but it is a Covenant for all men of any race:

Rom 1:16 for I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God unto salvation to the Jew first and ALSO THE GREEK: - FULFILLED

21 And the inhabitants of one city shall go to another, saying, Let us go speedily to pray before the Lord, and to seek the Lord of hosts: I will go also.
22 Yea, many people and strong nations shall come to seek the Lord of hosts in Jerusalem, and to pray before the Lord.
23 Thus saith the Lord of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.


This Scripture is a prophecy about Jesus Christ's 1,000 year millenial reign. I just don't understand how you cannot see this Feedm3.


Notice it says that the "many people and strong nations shall come to seek the LORD of hosts in Jerusalem, and pray before the LORD." Zechariah 8:22 (KJB)

so you believe it is a literal "beast" and literal "marks on their foreheads"? You think vs 1-3 in Rev 20 are literal "chains" "bottomless pitts", "serpents" and "dragons"?

If not, then what in this figurative context makes Jerusalem, and a 1ooo years literal?

Show why, give a valid reason.

My reason for knowing they are figurative is valid and logical.

1. the context is highly figurative - "the bottomless pit", the "dragon", the "serpent" the "great chain" all figurative. So keeping things in context, the "looo years" and the "place Jerusalem" are also figurative, as God expects me to use the common sense he gave me when interpreting these things.

So theres my logical valid reason, so what's yours?

Because when I compare Scripture with Scripture: When I compare Revelation 20 with Zechariah 8, I can see it is talking about the same time period. And when I read in Psalm 2:8 that the LORD said:

"Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession." - Psalm 2:8.

This Scripture is a promise from God the Father to His only begotten Son, the Lord Jesus Christ. A promise that Jesus Christ will inherit the earth and shall rule reign over it with a rod of iron.

In fact the first Chapter of Rev tells you it is going to be a symboical book:
1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John

See that word "signified", it means to symbolize the truth.

Same word used here:
John 5:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. 32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. 33 This he said, signifying what death he should die

Notice he "signified" his death by saying "he would be "lifted up", which was a figurative way of saying the would be crucified, without actually saying it.

The entire book of Rev are "signifying" things, that you and many others NEED and WANT to be literal, yet youy can not even show why.

Lets look at just 6 terms found in the first 3 passges of Revelation 20:

1. "the key" - no one believes God needs a literal "key" that will free Satan. God is all powerful.

2. "a great chain", figurative, unless you believe in this spiritual place, angels use big chains to capture dragons.

3. Dragon - figurative term to describe Satan

4. Serpent - same as above

5. the bottomless pitt - figurative, unless you beleive their is a literal pitt that if one falls into he will just fall for eternity.

6. the 1000 years. Mention in the same context as all the other terms above. So why are these terms figurative, yet this ONE term, is not?

Because there are physical elements in the book of revelation as well: Such as the Lake of Fire, New Heaven, New Jerusalem, and New Earth. The things which the Apostle John saw in his vision cannot all be symbolic or figurative, I believe that is just your private interpretation. Remember, we need to compare Scripture with Scripture. Not only that, read all of Psalm 2. And see whether or not you think Psalm 2 is a figurative promise or a literal promise. It has to be a literal promise. Since Jesus first preached the Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven to the Jews and the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel. (Matthew 4:17 and Matthew 15:24)

 

[Grandpa]

Grandpa, Gal is concerning the Law of Moses. When did I tell you that you must obey Moses' law?

You always run to this as if you cant read the context, and try mix in our obedience with keeping the law of Moses. Very dishonest and only fooling yourself.

You know we are not say this. You also know what Jesus said in Luke 17:10 which YOU will not address, you just keep repeating passages that prove we are not under the law of Moses. Great, I know this. Now tell me, how does that mean we do not have to obey God?

Second, it is not "my duty" as Jesus said it was the duty of any servant.

You are purposely being willfully ignorant so that you wont understand what you MUSt do. Ignorance is no excuse, especially when it's ignorance on purpose.

"if ye keep my commands" It seems you already know the answer to properly interpret what it means to believe.

Often people see God's Law, Gods' commandments and Moses Law as the same thing. If you see it that way I was separating it for you and showing you a progression. Since you don't see it that way we can move on.

In Luke 17:10 the Lord is showing the same progression I was trying to show you. It is not enough to obey the schoolmaster. You are already commanded to do that. You are to come to a saving faith which the schoolmaster should have brought you to. Faith in the Lord Jesus. Look at Luke 17:6 to understand the context of 17:10. What is the whole passage about? Faith.

I never said you don't have to obey God. That would be silly. But what is your motivation? Why should you obey God? Because you are worried you won't be saved?

I already know what I must do. I must have faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. Without Him I can do nothing. I must abide in Him. I think I may have already said that...

 

[Grandpa]

Would that not be obeying the Bible and God?

Obeying infers that there is a chance that something may not be obeyed. Salvation is not contingent on that.

Jesus says no man can come to me except the Father who sent me draw him. This is more of a leading than an obeying. There aren't any conditions on this except that a saved person is first drawn by God.

Who is the Author and Finisher of our Faith and Salvation? Not us. Not our works or our obedience cause us to be saved or have faith. I would say it is our very disobedience and inability to be obedient that causes us to have faith in the Lord, in someone necessarily more powerful than ourselves.

 

[Red33]

1. A licentious gospel is a gospel which says I can have mere belief and do not have to change my life. I can continue to live in sin, I do not have to do any good works. I can do whatever I want. YOU KNOW I DO NOT TEACH THIS.

No believer that has the Holy Spirit dwelling within thinks or practices a licentious gospel as you claim. They do not believe they can continue in sin because they have conviction from the Spirit that is contrary to the flesh. They would also be chastened by God to keep away from that kind of disposition in the heart. Just because someone makes a provision for the flesh does not mean they believe and live a licentious gospel. The term 'LICENTIOUS GOSPEL' is like a contradiction of terms and to keep putting that in people's heads is not a wise thing to do. You want someone to overcome this disposition that may creep in through leaven, then preach Jesus Christ and Him crucified and keep preaching it along with lots of grace until you see the leaven purged and a change in the heart and mind.

That will certainly translate into the volition and they will have the strength through grace to make good decisions away from the flesh. If you are a pastor you can multiply that times the number of believers you may be discipling and you find yourself spending lots of time on your knees interceding for them. If God called you to be a pastor, go be one and be the best pastor you can be through the grace of God and never stop laying your life down for others and believe the best even if you see otherwise because people need to see unconditional love that comes through faith. I'm sure you know all this, being taught by your elders, but there is no harm or evil in repeating it for reinforcement and for a disciplined mind.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Obeying infers that there is a chance that something may not be obeyed. Salvation is not contingent on that.

Jesus says no man can come to me except the Father who sent me draw him. This is more of a leading than an obeying. There aren't any conditions on this except that a saved person is first drawn by God.

Who is the Author and Finisher of our Faith and Salvation? Not us. Not our works or our obedience cause us to be saved or have faith. I would say it is our very disobedience and inability to be obedient that causes us to have faith in the Lord, in someone necessarily more powerful than ourselves.

And to add, it is our disobedience and inability to be obedient, which allows the schoolmaster to take us by the hand and lead us right to Christ. Because it is the law which condemned, it is only by Grace we can be saved. It is our disobedience which causes us to NEED to be saved in the first place.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No believer that has the Holy Spirit dwelling within thinks or practices a licentious gospel as you claim.

I never stated they did. But to deny people believe in this way is to deny reality, To many people taught against this in scripture.

So Whats your trip?

They do not believe they can continue in sin because they have conviction from the Spirit that is contrary to the flesh. They would also be chastened by God to keep away from that kind of disposition in the heart. Just because someone makes a provision for the flesh does not mean they believe and live a licentious gospel. The term 'LICENTIOUS GOSPEL' is like a contradiction of terms and to keep putting that in people's heads is not a wise thing to do.

Tell that to freedom, He is the one claiming I am teaching that Gospel, Its not my fault he is using a licentious gospel (which is a real false gospel) to support his legalistic based gospel.

 

[Skinski7]

Obeying infers that there is a chance that something may not be obeyed. Salvation is not contingent on that....I would say it is our very disobedience and inability to be obedient that causes us to have faith in the Lord, in someone necessarily more powerful than ourselves.

Then you are a robot who rolled off the production line disobedient and unable to obey unless God, the Master Programmer, comes along a reprograms you and makes you obey.

That is the heresy of Augustine, Luther and Calvin.

There is no personal responsibility in any of that whatsoever. Men are mere pawns subject to whatever program has been forced upon them, whether it be the rebellion program or the obedience program.

What nonsense!



Rom 2
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

 

[feedm3]

I never stated they did. But to deny people believe in this way is to deny reality, To many people taught against this in scripture.

So Whats your trip?

He does not have a trip, the prob is, your inconsistent on BOTH sides of your argument. That's what happens when you teach 5 gospels.

Tell that to freedom, He is the one claiming I am teaching that Gospel, Its not my fault he is using a licentious gospel (which is a real false gospel) to support his legalistic based gospel.

"legalistic" lol, if one says we must obey God? Wow. Then the Bible is full of legalism - Heb 5:9, Luke 17:10, Jn 14:15;

Your gospels:

1. We are saved by faith only

2. we are saved by faith only + having at least one work in our future so as not to fit James' condemnation of a dead faith

3. Once saved always saved

4. If we live in sin and show an unchanged life, we were never saved.

5. If were living in sin and show we were never saved God will bring us back by chastisement

You have no idea which one you believe, you jump back and forth between these contraindicating statements when you face different passages.

You know you have said every one of these.

So leave me out of conversations when someone on the other side like Red, calls you out on your inconsistent doctrine.

Answer him, dont try to change the subject to me, and what I teach, that wont change what he said to YOU.

 

[feedm3]

And to add, it is our disobedience and inability to be obedient, which allows the schoolmaster to take us by the hand and lead us right to Christ.

DUDE, can you not read the Bible in context at all. You and grandpa keep saying the law was a schcool to bring *us as in modern day Christians* to Christ.

This does not apply to me or you.

Paul was speaking to Gal Christians, who were once under the law of Moses, and some returnig to it.

He says the law was a tutor to bring us *meaning Paul himself and those jews once under it* to Christ.

Were you ever under the law of Moses?

if not, then how did it "lead YOU by the hand to Christ"?

We dont have to be under the law of Moses (the schoolmaster) to know Christ, we have the entire NT, we can skip the whole law system of Moses, and go straight to the gospel, and be saved.

Do you teach new converts they must first submit to Moses' law, so in order to be lead to Christ?

This is just another example of how you all misapply scripture, and ccannot rightly understand who is being spoken to.

You were lead to Christ by the law, I choked on my coffee when I read that one.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Then you are a robot who rolled off the production line disobedient and unable to obey unless God, the Master Programmer, comes along a reprograms you and makes you obey.

Nice way to twist things. How do you get that from what he said? Try reading what people say and stop proving your programed to think.

God does not force anyone, It is a huge difference saying God FORCES us to obey (which is NOT what Grandpa said) and giving us the ABILITY to obey.

That is the heresy of Augustine, Luther and Calvin.

There is no personal responsibility in any of that whatsoever. Men are mere pawns subject to whatever program has been forced upon them, whether it be the rebellion program or the obedience program.

What nonsense!



Rom 2
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

What is nonsense is anyone who thinks they COULD EVER BE RIGHTEOUS enough to earn the right to spend eternity with God. This is total nonsense, and shows the inability to understand who and God is and his righteous standard. and inability to understand the sin you commit on a daily basis which would give you nothing but the right to eternal hell. if it were not for Christ.

 

[christianmotherof32011]

i love this.i have many times felt like when i have back slid that i lost my salvation but my pastor said i didnt.i am trying so hard to keep a close and personal relationship with the father and the son.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

He does not have a trip, the prob is, your inconsistent on BOTH sides of your argument. That's what happens when you teach 5 gospels.

I don't know what your issue is, But you have major problems with reality.

I teach one gospel. Faith in the finished work of Christ. and you know it, your just to blind to admit it. You hate it when people do not agree with you. Your vendetta against me shows your lack of humility

"legalistic" lol, if one says we must obey God? Wow. Then the Bible is full of legalism - Heb 5:9, Luke 17:10, Jn 14:15;

If your saying we must obey a set of rules and regulations, then yes, legalistic.

Your problem is you do not realise you can NEVER OBEY good enough to earn the right to stand in front of God, let alone spend eternity with him. Your pride is your downfall.

Your gospels:

1. We are saved by faith only

2. we are saved by faith only + having at least one work in our future so as not to fit James' condemnation of a dead faith

wrong. I never stated we would have at least one work. James says if we have zero works our faith is dead. Paul says if we are saved BY FAITH, we will work.

3. Once saved always saved

Based on number 1

4. If we live in sin and show an unchanged life, we were never saved.

Again, James, Jude and Paul state this, your argument is with them.

5. If were living in sin and show we were never saved God will bring us back by chastisement

This is rediculous, I have never stated this, your making stuff up. Get a life why don't you. Do you think you are all that? Your vendetta makes you look foolish, in that you now have to make stuff up.

You have no idea which one you believe, you jump back and forth between these contraindicating statements when you face different passages.

There are no contradictions. There is you adding words to what i say, and twisting other things I say, the contradiction is in your head.

You know you have said every one of these.

So leave me out of conversations when someone on the other side like Red, calls you out on your inconsistent doctrine.

LOL. Red believes in a licentious gospel. the gospel you claim I believe in. If anything, the fact you are both coming at me helps my cause, because you both prove what I have said all along, the legalist calls me licentious, and the licentious calls me a legalist. Keep on talking, Your pride, your vendetta and your lies keep coming forth and prove your real self righteous attitude,

 

[eternally-gratefull]

i love this.i have many times felt like when i have back slid that i lost my salvation but my pastor said i didnt.i am trying so hard to keep a close and personal relationship with the father and the son.

God did not give us a spirit of fear. But a spirit of adoption whereby we cry out abba father. It is good you feel the chastening of God and the guilth which comes with sin, for it brings you back to him, Just remember, he loves you unconditionally. because it is all based on his promise, not how good you try to be,m because you will never be good enough to earn his love.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

DUDE, can you not read the Bible in context at all. You and grandpa keep saying the law was a schcool to bring *us as in modern day Christians* to Christ.

This does not apply to me or you.

Paul was speaking to Gal Christians, who were once under the law of Moses, and some returnig to it.

He says the law was a tutor to bring us *meaning Paul himself and those jews once under it* to Christ.

Were you ever under the law of Moses?

if not, then how did it "lead YOU by the hand to Christ"?

We dont have to be under the law of Moses (the schoolmaster) to know Christ, we have the entire NT, we can skip the whole law system of Moses, and go straight to the gospel, and be saved.

Do you teach new converts they must first submit to Moses' law, so in order to be lead to Christ?

This is just another example of how you all misapply scripture, and ccannot rightly understand who is being spoken to.

You were lead to Christ by the law, I choked on my coffee when I read that one.

Wow. talk about lost in ones own head. How do you think the people before the law came to Christ, how do you think they who KNEW the righteous commands of God, and KNEW they were sinners and justly condemned before the law spoken of in romans 1 when there was no law.

The law is written in our hearts. For you and I and everyone else.

here is the difference. The law shows me I have no hope. You think you are good enough and obey just enough of the law to make yourself right before God. thus the law has NOT done what it was supposed to do for you. It has failed to bring you out of your self righteous attitude of legalistic phariseeism, and to the death of Christ, who FINISHED the work of salvation.

 

[feedm3]

Wow. talk about lost in ones own head. How do you think the people before the law came to Christ, how do you think they who KNEW the righteous commands of God, and KNEW they were sinners and justly condemned before the law spoken of in romans 1 when there was no law.

The law is written in our hearts. For you and I and everyone else.

here is the difference. The law shows me I have no hope. You think you are good enough and obey just enough of the law to make yourself right before God. thus the law has NOT done what it was supposed to do for you. It has failed to bring you out of your self righteous attitude of legalistic phariseeism, and to the death of Christ, who FINISHED the work of salvation.

Nope, you just did not understand what Gal was saying to the Jewish folk who under the law. You really thought you were lead to Christ by the law. You said it, not me.

How can the law be written in your heart if you feel you do not have to obey God? You have made your own law, in which you can continue in all the sin you want and"

1. either have never been saved
2. Be brought back by God

know which is it today? Will living in sin show we were never saved, or will living in sin bring about chastisments so we return to the faith?

I seriously dont know which one your teaching today, so why dont you tell me. If a professed Christians begins living in sin, what happens? Was he never saved, or will he be brought back.

or you can ignore and pretend you didn't say this, and remain the corner you've backed yourself into every since our first post with each other.