Eternal Security - Most dangerous words ever preached: Once saved, always saved.

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gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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Eleven addressed me earlier in this thread and she obviously referred to all those on the opposing side (to which I was a participant).

I have a good conscience by the way.

Acts 23:1 KJV
[1] And Paul, earnestly beholding the council, said, Men and brethren, I have lived in all good conscience before God until this day.
how can you have a good conscience? you think you don't sin.

surely caring around this lie must eat at your conscience....
 
Feb 29, 2020
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how can you have a good conscience? you think you don't sin.

surely caring around this lie must eat at your conscience....
This is bizarre.

How can you have a good conscience in committing sins?

And to suggest that a good conscience cannot be had in not committing sin is foolishness.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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This is bizarre.

How can you have a good conscience in committing sins?

And to suggest that a good conscience cannot be had in not committing sin is foolishness.

you missed my point.

you think you do not sin. that is a lie.

so, carrying around that lie must bother your conscience.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Great scripture for participation in the suffering of Christ.
As Paul knew, if we die with Him He will raise us up to everlasting life. This is where the rubber meets the road in the Christian life.
Paul is very explicit that we *have* died with Him, that because of this our hope is sure that we will also be raised with Him, that this present completed truth of our having already died is the functional means of our escaping judgment, that by faith not works, and that our burden and command is to bring our bodies into subjection to this spiritual reality, not to strive daily as the priests did under the law making ineffective offering after offering.
 

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2017
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Can you 'walk away 'in heaven ? no of course not . I believe in free will ( im not a calvinist ) but I recognise no issue concerning free will and once saved, stay saved . We wont be arguing about free will in heaven . No one will be crying out " let me out , I've changed my mind I want to burn in hell forever . " no , and no Christian should argue about free will after Jesus has saved him . We should be relieved and thankful that we cannot' fall out' or' walk away ' .
This subject has nothing whatsoever to do with heaven.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.
John 15:7
As Greek scholar AT Robertson points out - Two kinds of connections with Christ as the vine (the merely cosmic which bears no fruit, the spiritual and vital which bears fruit). The fruitless (not bearing fruit, mh peron karpon) the vine-dresser "takes away" (airei) or prunes away. Probably (Bernard) Jesus here refers to Judas..

https://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/robertsons-word-pictures/john/john-15.html
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
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This subject has nothing whatsoever to do with heaven.
It was to do with free will and the argument as if eternal security is a violation of freewill . Well in heaven or in order to be in Heaven there has to be a change. This change is a work of God where we recieve a glorfied body ( The redemption, Rom 8.23 ) So no one in Heaven can walk away , fall away ect. I'm arguing that after God has changed a person spiritually ( Born Again ) After they first believed . In the same way they cannot walk away or fall away . Its like when Noah was in the Ark . God shut the door and kept Noah saved .
 

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2017
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Lucy it appears you ignored the scripture below, a saved believer has (Eternal Security) read it again :)

You aren't saved until your (Sealed) by the Holy Spirit, this puts a believer in the (Father's Hand) your name is in the Lambs Book of Life, Eternal Security 100%.

Do you deny eternal security as seen below, is there somebody bigger than the (Father) that will remove the Christian from his hand?

If a person pretends to be saved, goes to church every day of the week, tithes, walks and talks like a believer, and then does a 180 turnaround after 30 years, to the world in it's lustful sin?

That person was never sealed by the Holy Spirit, or in the (Father's Hand) simple :)

The believer is sealed by the Holy Spirit, unto the day of redemption.

Ephesians 4:30KJV
30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

The Holy Bible (Clearly) teaches eternal security, as (Clearly) seen below.

John 10:27-30KJV
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
30 I and my Father are one.
It isn't me you are arguing with.
Are you calling the writer of Hebrews a liar?
The whole counsel of scripture is what I believe. I've stated that I don't deny the security of our salvation more than once.
I'm sorry that you can't accept that.
 

Benadam

Active member
Aug 14, 2019
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Paul is very explicit that we *have* died with Him, that because of this our hope is sure that we will also be raised with Him, that this present completed truth of our having already died is the functional means of our escaping judgment, that by faith not works, and that our burden and command is to bring our bodies into subjection to this spiritual reality, not to strive daily as the priests did under the law making ineffective offering after offering.
Romans 6:8
But if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him.


Doesn't read as something in the past to me..
 

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2017
3,603
1,848
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It was to do with free will and the argument as if eternal security is a violation of freewill . Well in heaven or in order to be in Heaven there has to be a change. This change is a work of God where we recieve a glorfied body ( The redemption, Rom 8.23 ) So no one in Heaven can walk away , fall away ect. I'm arguing that after God has changed a person spiritually ( Born Again ) After they first believed . In the same way they cannot walk away or fall away . Its like when Noah was in the Ark . God shut the door and kept Noah saved .
The choices we make in our earthly, mortal life are the subject.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Romans 6:8
But if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him.


Doesn't read as something in the past to me..

See below:


  • we who died to sin
    • Romans 6:2 -- past tense, completed action
  • as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death
    • Romans 6:3 -- past tense, completed action
  • we were buried with Him through baptism into death
    • Romans 6:4 -- past tense, completed action
  • we have been united together in the likeness of His death
    • Romans 6:5 -- past tense, completed action
  • our old man was crucified with Him
    • Romans 6:6 -- past tense, completed action
  • he who has died has been freed from sin.
    • Romans 6:7 -- past tense, completed action
  • we died with Christ
    • Romans 6:8 -- past tense, completed action
  • Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him.
    • Romans 6:9 -- past tense, completed action
  • likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin
    • Romans 6:11 -- past tense, completed action
      • the first imperative ((command)) statement in the whole epistle!
      • consider yourselves to already have died!
  • you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ
    • Romans 7:4 -- past tense, completed action
  • we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by
    • Romans 7:6 -- past tense, completed action
[/QUOTE]
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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Judas was a apostle which means at one time he was saved and sealed until the day of redemption until he turned aside to go to his own place." Acts 1:24-25 NASB
Absolutely false. Judas was an unbelieving, unclean devil who betrayed Jesus. (John 6:64-71; 13:10-11)

Judas was baptizes. Judas baptizes others.,
Multiple "nominal" Christians in various false religions and cults have been water baptized and have baptized others. This does not confirm that Judas was saved.


Judas was anointed. Judas was empowered. Judas cast out Devils. Judas healed the sick. Judas preached the gospel.
In Matthew 10:1, we also see that Jesus gave His 12 disciples power over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all kinds of sickness and all kinds of disease. This would include Judas Iscariot, yet Jesus referred to Judas Iscariot as an unbelieving, unclean devil who would betray Him! (John 6:64-71; 13:10-11). At best, Judas believed that Jesus' name has the power to cast out demons and heal the sick, but did not truly believe in His name (John 1:12) and become a child of God, but instead was the son of perdition (John 17:12).


Matthew 7:22 - Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. *Sobering words for "nominal" Christians/make believers!

John 17:12 - While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled. John 18:9 - that the saying might be fulfilled which He spoke, "Of those whom You gave Me I have lost none." Jesus did not lose Judas. Judas was already lost.

1. All given by the Father to Jesus are kept.
2. Judas was not kept.
3. Judas was not given to Jesus by the Father


Or, this way.

1. None of those given to Jesus by the Father will be lost by Jesus.
2. Judas is lost.
3. Judas was not given to Jesus by the Father.


John 13:18 - I do not speak concerning all of you. I know whom I have chosen; BUT that the Scripture may be fulfilled, 'He who eats bread with Me has lifted up his heel against Me.'
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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Like I said, we will continue to be sealed if (condition) we remain in the faith (Christ Crucified). Colossians 1:23
There is no mention here of "continuing to be sealed," yet those who are sealed will remain sealed until the redemption of the purchased possession/unto/for the day of redemption. (Ephesians 1:13-14; 4:30)


In Colossians 1:23, we read - ..if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister. The word "if" here is not ean, but ei with the indicative, having here the idea of "assuming that you continue in the faith."

That is, continuance would show that the person's faith was firmly rooted and established in the hope of the gospel and they really HAVE BEEN reconciled. The form of this phrase in Greek (using the Greek. particle ei and the indicative mood of the verb epimenō) indicates that Paul fully expects that the Colossian believers will continue in the faith; no doubt is expressed, yet what about "nominal" Christians/make believers who believe in vain/without cause or without effect, to no purpose, as in 1 Corinthians 15:2.

It makes perfect sense that Paul would speak this way because he is addressing groups of people who profess to be Christians mixed in with genuine Christians, without being able to infallibly know the actual state of every person's heart. How can Paul avoid giving them false assurance of salvation here when in fact some of them may not be saved? Paul knows that faith which is firmly grounded and established in the gospel from the start will continue. Those who continue in the faith show thereby that they are genuine believers. But those who do not continue show that their shallow, spurious faith was not firmly grounded and established in the gospel to begin with.
 

DWR

Active member
Apr 27, 2020
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In my opinion a person that does not believe in eternal security probably does not have it and needs our prayers.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Romans 6:8
But if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him.


Doesn't read as something in the past to me..
It's past tense. 10 times in that chapter its written in past tense, we have died with Him.
There's no honest way to read it otherwise.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
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Modern evangelism has created a false gospel message. Mental ascent is insufficient for salvation. Real conversion is not by mental ascent but by Holy Spirit conviction and conversion. Mental ascent produces a temporary feeling but does not endure. It becomes easy to see how folks can say that one can lose their salvation if they have only mental ascent upon which to base their profession.

For the cause of Christ
Roger