Eternal Security - Most dangerous words ever preached: Once saved, always saved.

[Lanolin]

lets put it this way
say you have your life savings and put it in the bank, hoping to get it when you turn 65. You can lose your savings one of two ways. You dont turn 65 and die when you are 64. Or the bank goes bankrupt, and it doesnt give you your money.

Is salvation the same?
You put all your trust in Jesus. You store up treasures in heaven for when you die. God will keep these treasures for you when you are born again in heaven right?

Can you lose those treasures. I dont think you can lose them unless you change who you trust or stop trusting in Jesus.
Will there be unclaimed treasures in heaven then, for people that trusted in Jesus but then turned away from Him before they died?

 

[Nehemiah6]

God will keep these treasures for you when you are born again in heaven right?

People are born again on earth after obedience to the Gospel. They do not wait to get to Heaven to be born again. Not sure if you meant what you said, or if that was just a slip up.

 

[Chris1975]

@Chris1975

i'm sensing a theme here in Romans 6-7

you? ya think it's 'daily kill yourself, or else!' or is it 'you have died, rejoice, believe it & act like it'

Luke 9v23 Then He said to them all, “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me.

 

[Micaiah-imla]

there is not one human on earth who does not sin.

You have a spirit contrary to scripture and your a presumptuous person:

Psalm 4:4 KJV
[4] Stand in awe, and sin not

But gb9 is the person described in the next scripture:

Psalm 50:16-17 KJV
[16] But unto the wicked God saith, What hast thou to do to declare my statutes, or that thou shouldest take my covenant in thy mouth? [17] Seeing thou hatest instruction, and castest my words behind thee.

You better change course my friend

Psalm 50:22 KJV
[22] Now consider this... lest I tear you in pieces, and there be none to deliver.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

To me Paul is teaching about our end.
What does it mean, to die with Christ? What does that look like?

Romans 7 -

1 Or are you ignorant brothers (for I speak to those knowing the law), that the law rules over the man for as long as the time he is alive? 2 For the married woman is bound by law to the living husband; but if the husband should die, she is cleared from the law of the husband. 3 So then, if she is to another man, the husband being alive, she will be called an adulteress; but if the husband should die, she is free from the law, so as for her not to be an adulteress, having been to another man.

4 Likewise, my brothers, you also have been put to death to the Law through [/by means of] the body of Christ, for you to belong to another, to the One having been raised out from the dead, so that we should bear fruit to God.



Colossians 2 -

12 being buried with him [G4916, one word ('to bury along with')] in the baptism, in which also ye rose with him [G4891, one word ('to raise along with')] through the faith of the working of God, who did raise him out of the dead. [see also Romans 6:3 - "Or are you unaware that as many as have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?" ]

 

[Chester]

you missed my point.

you think you do not sin. that is a lie.

so, carrying around that lie must bother your conscience.

He didn't miss your point - He was just bouncing around it! (My opinion, at least!)

 

[Chester]

• we who died to sin
  • Romans 6:2 -- past tense, completed action
• as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death
  • Romans 6:3 -- past tense, completed action
• we were buried with Him through baptism into death
  • Romans 6:4 -- past tense, completed action
• we have been united together in the likeness of His death
  • Romans 6:5 -- past tense, completed action
• our old man was crucified with Him
  • Romans 6:6 -- past tense, completed action
• he who has died has been freed from sin.
  • Romans 6:7 -- past tense, completed action
• we died with Christ
  • Romans 6:8 -- past tense, completed action
• Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him.
  • Romans 6:9 -- past tense, completed action
• likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin
  • Romans 6:11 -- past tense, completed action
    • the first imperative ((command)) statement in the whole epistle!
    • consider yourselves to already have died!
• you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ
  • Romans 7:4 -- past tense, completed action
• we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by
  • Romans 7:6 -- past tense, completed action
    

bro how much more explicit does the scripture need to be for you to understand it?
friend what does it take for you to believe it?

Excellent post: One of the best I have seen on CC recently!

At conversion we all died with Christ and were raised with Christ. The old man (nature) died with Jesus and we now are a new creature (man) in Jesus Christ. We are "born again" - really! Before we were "in Adam", but now we are "in Christ Jesus"

There is a daily battle, but that is on the level of the flesh (not the spirit). The command to take up the "cross daily"?? The cross was a place of physical execution. It is as Billy Graham once said - "Take up your electric chair and follow Christ."

 

[Chris1975]

Excellent post: One of the best I have seen on CC recently!

At conversion we all died with Christ and were raised with Christ. The old man (nature) died with Jesus and we now are a new creature (man) in Jesus Christ. We are "born again" - really! Before we were "in Adam", but now we are "in Christ Jesus"

There is a daily battle, but that is on the level of the flesh (not the spirit). The command to take up the "cross daily"?? The cross was a place of physical execution. It is as Billy Graham once said - "Take up your electric chair and follow Christ."

Luke 9v23 Then He said to them all, “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me.

 

[Chester]

Luke 9v23 Then He said to them all, “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me.

Exactly! We are to take up our cross daily - that is - carry around your electric chair! I think this means that daily we live being willing to put our lives on the line for the gospel of Jesus Christ.

But to die with Christ? That is always past time completed action in the New Testament. That happened when we became born again.

 

[Chris1975]

Exactly! We are to take up our cross daily - that is - carry around your electric chair! I think this means that daily we live being willing to put our lives on the line for the gospel of Jesus Christ.

But to die with Christ? That is always past time completed action in the New Testament. That happened when we became born again.

The cross represents the crucifixion of the flesh. The works of the flesh are:
Gal 5v19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: [d]adultery, [e]fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, [f]murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Those who are Christs have crudified the flesh and its desires: Gal 5v24 And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

Therefore if you are still walking in these things above, then you havent taken up your cross daily. We are to consider ourselves dead to sin but alive in Christ.
Romans 6 v11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord. 12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Therefore if you are still walking in these things above, then you havent taken up your cross daily. We are to consider ourselves dead to sin but alive in Christ.

This is a totally different subject. The OP is about the eternal security of the believer -- based upon the grace of God and the finished work of Christ.

 

[Blain]

Is it possible for a Christian to lose his salvation? Under what conditions, if any, can one's salvation be forfeited? Millions of Christians live their lives as close to these questions as they can, gambling on the goodness and mercy of God to save them, continually, in their sin rather than from it. Millions more spend their faith on works attempting to offer a better sacrifice, but in reality bypass the finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ.

On both sides of the argument plenty of scripture is always shown to prove each others understanding of it and it is sadly one of the most touchy and unresolved topics in bible debates.
The way I see it one cannot if they are truly his lose their salvation mainly because if one truly is saved they never would take advantage of his grace and live freely in sin grace is not and never has been a free ticket to do as we please and one with a heart for God wouldn't anyways.

In the end we have to listen to what the bible says and what God says to us the issue however is how diverse the scriptures appear in the topic when presented to prove each persons point of view.

Scriptures alone are not enough we have to have the understanding and insight to go with it, we have to take into account who God is what and how his plan of salvation is and works and also what the spirit says to our hearts because one person c an say that by the spirit they know one can lose their salvation and vise versa yet not all actually know how to hear his voice well enough to not mix it with their own beliefs.

Can one lose their salvation if they sin enough? honestly I think that takes away what Jesus did for us on the cross. For a good while now I have been focused on my sins trying to find them all and somehow be sinless, I know that my firm belief is that this isn't possible but anyone can claim something but without actually testing your beliefs what good does it do to continue to say it is true or not?
Ever since then though I have been bombarded with doubt and fear I was so parinoid that I was going to go to hell and when I asked God three times each time he said focus on my grace not your sin


The problem with the beleif that one can lose their salvation is that it means it is based on us basically when it had nothing to do with us. Jesus bought us with his blood if he bought us then how can we even forfeit what isn't ours anymore? if we give our lives to him recieve his mark of the holy spirit then if we say take our lives from things being just to much is it even our lives to take?
If someone buys something from someone else then they can no longer forfeit it because it already has been done if something is bought it has a new owner and cannot legally be taken back. So were we bought by Jesus and therefore forfeiting our lives or is that just a comferting thought?

For a good while now I have been struggling intensely with my doubts and fear and insecurity it was heavy on my soul and I found my connection to god much more difficult to live in but when I instead focused on his grace then I could feel myself starting to walk in him deeper again.

The idea that salvation can be lost means it has to do with our sins focusing on our sins or lack thereof is making it about ourselves when it is supposed to be on God our focus is on the wrong thing which is why the fruits differ in walking in each one

 

[Chris1975]

This is a totally different subject. The OP is about the eternal security of the believer -- based upon the grace of God and the finished work of Christ.

If this self-same believer turns from righteousness and begins to walk in the way of darkness, and turns not from his ways, then there is no security.

James 5v19-20 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.

No eternal security for those who will not turn back.

Let's look further:

1 John 1
6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.

 

[dcontroversal]

Amen....Satan designed a losable salvation and his minions peddle it....

God on the other hand....

a. I will never leave thee or forsake thee.

b. The gifts and calling of God are irrevocable. Salvation is one such gift

c. We are kept by the power of God through faith. (The faith found in d)

d. Jesus begins, finishes and completes the work of faith in us.

e. I give them eternal/everlasting life. NOT TEMPORAL BASED UPON PREFORMANCE

f. I will lose nothing, but raise it up the last day.

g. In the Father's hand, Son's hand and SEALED UNTO THE DAY of Redemption

h. Passed from DEATH unto LIFE

i. These things written that you may KNOW YOU HAVE ETERNAL LIFE.

j. NO CONDEMNATION for those in CHRIST

k. JUSTIFIED ETERNALLY

l. Sanctified eternally and positionally in Christ

m. Our life is HIDDEN IN CHRIST

n. Our Spirit is born again from above by INCORRUPTIBLE SEED and does NOT SIN.

o. SAVED to the UTTERMOST

p. GOD WHIPS his children, he does not cast them away

q. The prodigal was a SON throughout the whole process and very mych alive and only perceived as dead and still RECEIVED

r. And on and on and on and on.

There are no scriptures in context that teach a losable salvation and or a salvation that must be kept by man, maintained by man or finished by man.

It is poppycock, false, contrary to peddle a losable salvation!

This right here proves who is of God and who is not...LOOK at all the scriptural references that point to eternal security in context and then pay attention to the marks given....ONE salvation loser, that peddles being sinless and that interjects self into the equation gives a negative response to the undeniable truth in this post.......speaks VOLUMES!

 

[dcontroversal]

What pomposity on your part to presume to know how I conduct myself before God.

We can read scripture and it clearly states that you sin.

 

[dcontroversal]

not pompas at all.

there is not one human on earth who does not sin.

this includes you.

Don't you love how these scripture rejecting jokers will give a negative response to absolute truth and then claim to be saved and sinless.....

My bible is clear.

All were written when saved people/believers were on the planet.

There is not a just man upon the earth that does good and sins not.

There is none good save God

If we say we have no sin, we are deceived and the truth is not in us.

It is utterly amazing to me how brazen, dishonest and contrary some of these people are with the truth!

 

[oldethennew]

HEB. 3:7.
Wherefore (as The Holy Ghost saith, To day if you will hear His voice,
8.
Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
9.
When your fathers tempted Me, proved Me, and saw My works forty years.
10.
Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart;
and they have not known My ways.
11.
So I sware in My wrath, They shall not enter into My rest.)
12.
Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, 'in departing from The Living God'.
13.
But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
14.
For we are made partakers of Christ, 'if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;'
REV. 2:26.
And he that 'overcomes and keeps My Word unto the END, to him will I give power over the nations.'

 

[dcontroversal]

HEB. 3:7.
Wherefore (as The Holy Ghost saith, To day if you will hear His voice,
8.
Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
9.
When your fathers tempted Me, proved Me, and saw My works forty years.
10.
Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart;
and they have not known My ways.
11.
So I sware in My wrath, They shall not enter into My rest.)
12.
Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, 'in departing from The Living God'.
13.
But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
14.
For we are made partakers of Christ, 'if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;'
REV. 2:26.
And he that 'overcomes and keeps My Word unto the END, to him will I give power over the nations.'

Yep.....and the context is temporal rest in this life....even though the above is true...

a. He did not leave them or foesake them but led them day and night by a pillar of fire and smoke.

b. Maintained he presence within the camp in the Holiest of Holies

c. Fed them

d. Gave them a form or worship and leadership

e. Gave them water

f. Provided for them ALL THE DAYS OF THIER LIVES

These Hebrew scriptures are NOT ABOUT SALVATION!

 

[Benadam]

There are no scriptures in context that teach a losable salvation and or a salvation that must be kept by man, maintained by man or finished by man.

There are plenty of scriptures that reference those who tasted the gifts of the Holy Spirit and left. You can say they never were in communion but that's a logical fallacy. No true Scotsman fallacy. The bottom line is no one knows with certainty who is saved and who is not.

In regards of peddling a gospel, the truth is, our salvation requires our cooperation. Not quite the selling point that eternal security offers. But then there is no evidence that anyone can point to that reveals a person's eternal destiny with certainty.

We walk by faith not sight.

A certain faith is an oxymoron.

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

John 6:53 - "Except you eat the Flesh of the Son of Man, and drink His Blood (i.e., the Cross, i.e., The Finished Work), you have no life in you," (presents the demand that caused "many of His Disciples to go back, and walk no more with Him" [John 6:66]. It does the same presently! This Verse tells us the degree of believing that is required; it refers to the Cross being the total Object of one's belief; failing that, there is no Life in you.)

John 6:66 - From that time many of His Disciples went back, and walk no more with Him.

Remember, the memory of the wicked will not be remembered! They thought because they Believed in Jesus and did works in His name they were saved.

In the Eyes of God the Believer who’s Faith trust in Christ and His Righteous Work at Calvary is being obedient to the Faith. The Church of Ephesus was doing good things and deeds, however, God wasn’t in these works. Therefore, they had fallen from the obedient from Gods Eyes.

“4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against you (something is wrong, despite their zeal), because you have left your first love (not “lost” your first love, but rather “left” your first love; it refers to a departure from the Cross, and is so serious that it will lead the Church to ruin unless Repentance is forthcoming).”

“5 Remember therefore from where you are fallen (this means they fell from Grace, which means they had stopped depending on Christ and the Cross [Gal. 5:4]), and repent, and do the first works (go back to the Cross); or else I will come unto you quickly, and will remove your candlestick out of his place, except you repent. (Christ is the Source of the Light, but the Cross is the means. They are to come back to the Cross, or else the Light will be removed.)” Revelation 2:4-5

Pastor Curtis/JSM