Eternal Security - Most dangerous words ever preached: Once saved, always saved.

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TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
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We are saved by Grace alone --- everyone seems to agree on this point.. Jesus has done all and we do not earn salvation. the price was paid in full by Jesus. the argument isn't about the grace or our faith in the grace. The question seems to be....can the person be certain about their future salvation? .....can the person lose their salvation?...., and is salvation conditional ? ? ? ?

i say yes to all .. Jesus is our certainty, remaining in Jesus and we will not lose our salvation, and Jesus meets the condition..
Jesus Jesus Jesus is the answer, and i know we can accept or reject Jesus, so salvation depends on you choosing Jesus continually..
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
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To sum it up
Jesus in us = certain salvation.
but we can choose to reject or accept Jesus, we can allow Jesus to save us or push Him away. We can know our Lord or choose not to know Him.

Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
 

Guojing

Well-known member
Jan 12, 2019
5,221
876
113
We are saved by Grace alone --- everyone seems to agree on this point.. Jesus has done all and we do not earn salvation. the price was paid in full by Jesus. the argument isn't about the grace or our faith in the grace. The question seems to be....can the person be certain about their future salvation? .....can the person lose their salvation?...., and is salvation conditional ? ? ? ?

i say yes to all .. Jesus is our certainty, remaining in Jesus and we will not lose our salvation, and Jesus meets the condition..
Jesus Jesus Jesus is the answer, and i know we can accept or reject Jesus, so salvation depends on you choosing Jesus continually..
How does one choose Jesus continually, in your view?
 
Dec 12, 2013
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We know that everyone who has been born of God does not sin (1 John 5:18).

Yes, you can. And then ignore it!
the same guy said..

If we say we have no sin we are deceived and the truth is not in us.

NOTE GENIUS....THE TRUTH IS NOT IN US

One of us has it wrong pal and that would be you!
 
Dec 12, 2013
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In all the years as a saved person have you matured to the point of letting someone strike you twice and take your possessions?

You know, since you “point 100% to Christ“...
Yawn..............! Have you matured to the point to quit lying and admit you sin?
 

soggykitten

Well-known member
Jul 3, 2020
1,352
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"Lose it" accidently? no. Wilfully, knowingly, walk away from it? Yes. Otherwise there is no such thing as free will.
Is eternal salvation, keeping in our minds the breadth of eternal, so fragile that what Jesus died to procure for us, his propitiation, can be lost by those who in a moment of ignorance fall away?
And if someone says, yes, you can lose your salvation by choice, then wouldn't that mean our fallible mortal choices can evict God's implanted seed within us? 1 John 3:9 .
For that matter, because I know a few folks who say this of themselves, what is it saying if we refer to ourselves as a sinner still after receiving the heavenly gift of grace and salvation if we claim we are still a sinner who sins? In light of what 1 John 3:9 tells us.
9 No one born (begotten) of God [deliberately, knowingly, and [a]habitually] practices sin, for God’s nature abides in him [His principle of life, the divine sperm, remains permanently within him]; and he cannot practice sinning because he is born (begotten) of God.
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
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Why is freedom so important? Because without the liberty to reject God, neither could we choose Him—and without choice, love would be utterly impossible.

If we don't have freedom to reject we don't have freedom to accept which makes us robots.
 
Feb 29, 2020
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If we say we have no sin we are deceived and the truth is not in us.

NOTE GENIUS....THE TRUTH IS NOT IN US
It takes no genius to figure out that the scripture you cling to, while dismissing the other, says:

1 John 1:7-9 KJV
[7] But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. [8] If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. [9] If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Let me break it down for you my man;

A. The blood of Christ atones for sin.

B. If we say we have no need of Christ’s atonement, saying we have no sin, we deceive ourselves.

C. If we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us.

I have confessed my sins and Christ took my sins away. Now I walk worthy of this unspeakable gift and fulfill the scripture which you cannot wrap around your carnal head:

He that is born of God does not commit sin.
 
Feb 29, 2020
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Yawn..............! Have you matured to the point to quit lying and admit you sin?
That’s what I thought.

You vainly preach that maturity is a process by which you eventually walk faithful with the Lord.

But in all your years you still can’t hear your Saviour’s voice and do what he tells you to do:

Luke 6:29-30 KJV
[29] And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloke forbid not to take thy coat also. [30] Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.

And you are the poster child for these verses:

Luke 6:46,49 KJV
[46] And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? ...[49] But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.

Your OSAS is worthless and produces lukewarm Christians who have to offer vain lip service to the Lord while ignoring his words.

1 John 2:3-4 KJV
[3] And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. [4] He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

IT APPEARS THAT THE LIAR HERE IS YOU!
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
4,671
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The biggest issue comes about with a translation error in Ephesians 2v8. I will show it here: 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,

Whereas the reality is that the verb for SAVED is AORIST. Which cannot be defined as past tense. Here is the Greek original intent:
The verb that is translated "being saved" comes from two verbs: ειμι and σωζω (εστε, "you are", and σεσωσμενοι, "being saved"). When a biblical author chooses this compound way of describing things, he almost always has a more continuous process in view. So I think the "being saved" translation is closer to the Greek text.

So the correct translations should be: For by grace you are being saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
You really have a knack for wrenching verses out from their context...

for, just three verses earlier, verse 5 says this:

"even being dead in the trespasses, did make us to live together [G4806 - synezōopoiēsen - made [us] alive together-with] with the Christ, (by grace ye are [present indicative active] having been saved [*PERFECT TENSE, participle, middle or passive - V-RPM/P-NMP (<--"perfect tense" represented by the "R" here)] )"

https://biblehub.com/text/ephesians/2-5.htm [see the last word in the chart at bottom, at link, and its accompanying " V-RPM/P-NMP " (i.e. "perfect tense"/"R")]



*Perfect Tense -

"ACTION COMPLETED at a SPECIFIC POINT of TIME in PAST (●) with results CONTINUING into the PRESENT (▬►). In certain contexts the results are PERMANENT."
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
1,417
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Imputed righteousness is the righteousness of Jesus credited to the Christian, enabling the Christian to be justified; imparted righteousness is what God does in Christ by the power of the Holy Spirit after justification, working in the Christian to enable and empower the process of sanctification.
I can not stand Justified without the imputed righteousness of Jesus,
Rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
Act_17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
Act_2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Luk 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
4,671
980
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2 Timothy 3:5 -

"Having a form of godliness, but denying the POWER thereof: from such turn away."



Romans 5:9 -

"Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through [/BY MEANS OF] him."
 
Feb 29, 2020
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Imputed righteousness is the righteousness of Jesus credited to the Christian
No.

It’s imputed to the unbeliever upon him believing.

ITS NOT A PERPETUAL IMPUTATION.

1 John 2:29 KJV
If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.
 

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2017
3,610
1,857
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If your faith and trust is not placed in Christ and His Finished Work at Calvary Cross, i.e, “The Blood of Jesus,” you become a self righteous hypocrite! Why? Because you get to take care of you without the help of the Holy Spirit. Without your faith and trust in the Sacrifice you remove yourself from the Lord. Gal. 1:6

The Bible says that Christ and Him Crucified is the power and the wisdom Of God. Without your faith and trust placed and maintained exclusively in Christ and Him Crucified, there will only be a worldly wisdom, even though you use scriptures!
I've never seen this as a for/against situation. An either/or. If anything plagues the body of Christ in this day it's our inability to discuss things rationally. How far we are from a radiant & ready bride!

I've never made an argument for a works-based salvation because I don't believe that. Nor do I believe that Satan can snatch me from Jesus' hand. Yet I have offended some Christians who seem to see me as a threat to a "OSAS" doctrine. I always thought I agreed with OSAS. Here, on THIS forum I have witnessed an un-Christian nastiness breakthrough regarding this doctrine, regularly. Some are disallowing the whole council of scripture to support an extremist view of the doctrine. Your thread has flushed this out again. Thank you.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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It takes no genius to figure out that the scripture you cling to, while dismissing the other, says:

1 John 1:7-9 KJV
[7] But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. [8] If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. [9] If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Let me break it down for you my man;

A. The blood of Christ atones for sin.

B. If we say we have no need of Christ’s atonement, saying we have no sin, we deceive ourselves.

C. If we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us.

I have confessed my sins and Christ took my sins away. Now I walk worthy of this unspeakable gift and fulfill the scripture which you cannot wrap around your carnal head:

He that is born of God does not commit sin.
Yawn....make no mistake pal....you are the one denying all scriptures and the context of said verses!
 
Dec 12, 2013
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No.

It’s imputed to the unbeliever upon him believing.

ITS NOT A PERPETUAL IMPUTATION.

1 John 2:29 KJV
If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.
More rejection of truth I see....and you obviously have no understanding of what justified means.....nor the faith of Christ!

being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus;
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,462
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That’s what I thought.

You vainly preach that maturity is a process by which you eventually walk faithful with the Lord.

But in all your years you still can’t hear your Saviour’s voice and do what he tells you to do:

Luke 6:29-30 KJV
[29] And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloke forbid not to take thy coat also. [30] Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.

And you are the poster child for these verses:

Luke 6:46,49 KJV
[46] And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? ...[49] But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.

Your OSAS is worthless and produces lukewarm Christians who have to offer vain lip service to the Lord while ignoring his words.

1 John 2:3-4 KJV
[3] And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. [4] He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

IT APPEARS THAT THE LIAR HERE IS YOU!
Keep walking blind......see how that works out for you.....!!
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
7,782
3,725
113
No.

It’s imputed to the unbeliever upon him believing.

ITS NOT A PERPETUAL IMPUTATION.

1 John 2:29 KJV
If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.
same man, same letter, " if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father...."

might want to try reading the Bible as a whole and not just plucking out verses to prop up your " i do not sin " lie....
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,462
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same man, same letter, " if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father...."

might want to try reading the Bible as a whole and not just plucking out verses to prop up your " i do not sin " lie....
Good luck with that....one of the biggest twisters and deniers of the truth I have seen on this site!
 

soggykitten

Well-known member
Jul 3, 2020
1,352
765
113
Man, the level of viciousness and gracelessness is getting deep, let me tell ya.