Eternal Security You CANNOT lose your salvation! by David J. Stewart | January 2004

[followjesus]

Hi kevan,

Could you please expound on this and tell us all what THIS means??

John 6:28-29, “Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.” Believe and the work is done, you are saved securely and eternally.

Could you please explain to us all what the word BELIEVE means as Jesus used it, as the Apostles used it and as the first church Fathers used it when the church was new.

Thanks.
Fran

What we do is what we believe. Let me ask you this. If someone you truly believed in said " there is 1,000,000 dollars buried 3 feet down in the center of your back yard." if you believed this, what would that belief lead you to do? of course if you believed it was true, you would go dig where you were told and lay hold of the money, if someone you truly did not believe said it to you, you probably arent going to bother.

saying i believe is different from believing. Just as believing in The One God sent, means you have to believe what He said. very clearly Jesus makes plain as do the apostles saying " i believe" and living as if we do not believe will not save anyone, but rather it will condemn them. Belief in Jesus will save, but it has to be sincere not words alone. His own words

matthew 7:21-27"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but HE THAT DOETH the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22Many WILL SAY to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that WORK INIQUITY.
24Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, AND DOETH THEM, I will liken him unto a WISE man, which built his house upon a rock: 25And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it FELL NOT: for it was founded UPON A ROCK. 26And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and DOETH THEM NOT, shall be likened unto a FOOLISH man, which built his house upon the sand: 27And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and GREAT WAS THE FALL of it."

the thing so many do not wish to hear is that if a person believes that Jesus is the Lord, the One God sent. they will absolutely TREAT Jesus as the LORD and all the word says He is. the word Lord means the authority, the ruler, the governor, the master ect. we are in submission to the Lord thats what the term means, we the subjects, He the King. Paul makes this abundantly clear, but the modern distortions of His writings by popular false doctrines, omit anything that doesnt make a "conditionless gospel" the true Gospel is recorded from matthew 1:1, to the final verse of John. the apostles were simply teaching the gospel as they were commissioned to do including paul, same gospel taken to the world through the apostles including paul no difference in the gospel but now it was freely offered to all regardless of birth, because all had sinned and fallen under condemnation, God sent His only son as savior of the WHOLE WORLD through the gospel which he taught to isreal and isreal then spread to the world. Belief has to be in Jesus, and it has to be sincere, sincere belief will ALWAYS result in actions.

romans 6:15-18 "What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? GOD FORBID. 16Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? 17But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. 18Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

were saved by Gods Grace, not the grace of the world. Gods Grace looks like this

titus 2:11-15 "For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, 12Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; 13Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; 14Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works."

if Grace doesnt teach us to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts in this life, and to live righteously "in this present world" if grace doesnt produce a zealousness to do Gods will which is spoken by Jesus in His ministry......its the grace of the serpent that teaches us to deny Gods word and chase lies.......

 

[Angela53510]

From what I have read in the Bible and studied in theology, there are three historical positions on whether we can lose our salvation.

1. Arminianism They believe you can lose your salvation, if you walk away from God, or show no works that they have been saved, including repentance. This is a centuries old doctrine. You may agree or disagree. But I do not think you can call it a heresy. Methodism,(including the Salvation Army, which comes out of Methodism; most Pentecostals and charismatics believe this.

2. Eternal security - what I call the "Baptist" doctrine, since that is where I first learned of it. (Not saying everyone has to be a Baptist to believe in eternal security, that is just my label!) This is not Calvinism, but it is a doctrine which says, that once you are saved, God is going to keep you in his hands. And that God's love is so amazing, no one will walk away. I tend to this belief system. It is a little newer, but not a heresy. Also it is the viewpoint of the OP, apparently.

3. Calvinism - This is also an historical doctrine, followed by millions of people in the Reformed and Presbyterian churches. There are 5 points, and it includes the fact that God gives us the perseverance to continue to the end, which is quite Biblical. There are extreme Calvinists, called superlapsarianists, and they do not think they can know if they are saved till they die. Which is basically a Catholic doctrine. However, they are considered extremists.

4. Oops. Forgot about the Catholics. A system of works, whereby you are sanctified gradually into Justification. So you cannot ever know if you are saved, until you are "purified" in purgatory. In my opinion, although a billion Catholics may disagree, this is the one heresy, that simply has no Biblical support.

So, probably best if we examine the Scriptures, and determine what they say. I really detest long, closely spaced posts that are little more than rants. And I do believe in eternal security, just not the way this OP and subsequent posts by the OP were written. Again, the OP would be much better to write out himself what he believes, rather than these copy and pastes!

 

[AllenW]

"There is a perverted theology today that mixes faith in Christ with surrendering one's life to God in obedience. This false doctrine is called “Lordship Salvation” and it is evil."

Agreed that salvation is by grace through faith, not by works! 100% correct!

The problem I have with the above statement as it is written is that it makes it seem like surrendering one's life to God is a negative thing, some stringent requirement! Surrendering my life to Christ and letting him be Lord of my life has been the most blessed and joyful and enriching and invigorating experience I could ask for. He is Lord of my life, and I love it! He is the most gentle, kind, loving Father! Lordship is not a string attached onto salvation, but is as much a beautiful part of salvation as is forgiveness and heaven.

I would never listen to MacArthur.
He makes everything so complicated.
Christianity is not complicated.
Salvation is not complicated.
Lordshop controversy is very complicated and it all comes from MacArthur.
In his life it will probably stand out as his most famous piece of junk that he has added to Christianity.

 

[Chester]

From what I have read in the Bible and studied in theology, there are three historical positions on whether we can lose our salvation.

1. Arminianism They believe you can lose your salvation, if you walk away from God, or show no works that they have been saved, including repentance. This is a centuries old doctrine. You may agree or disagree. But I do not think you can call it a heresy. Methodism,(including the Salvation Army, which comes out of Methodism; most Pentecostals and charismatics believe this.

2. Eternal security - what I call the "Baptist" doctrine, since that is where I first learned of it. (Not saying everyone has to be a Baptist to believe in eternal security, that is just my label!) This is not Calvinism, but it is a doctrine which says, that once you are saved, God is going to keep you in his hands. And that God's love is so amazing, no one will walk away. I tend to this belief system. It is a little newer, but not a heresy. Also it is the viewpoint of the OP, apparently.

3. Calvinism - This is also an historical doctrine, followed by millions of people in the Reformed and Presbyterian churches. There are 5 points, and it includes the fact that God gives us the perseverance to continue to the end, which is quite Biblical. There are extreme Calvinists, called superlapsarianists, and they do not think they can know if they are saved till they die. Which is basically a Catholic doctrine. However, they are considered extremists.

4. Oops. Forgot about the Catholics. A system of works, whereby you are sanctified gradually into Justification. So you cannot ever know if you are saved, until you are "purified" in purgatory. In my opinion, although a billion Catholics may disagree, this is the one heresy, that simply has no Biblical support.

So, probably best if we examine the Scriptures, and determine what they say. I really detest long, closely spaced posts that are little more than rants. And I do believe in eternal security, just not the way this OP and subsequent posts by the OP were written. Again, the OP would be much better to write out himself what he believes, rather than these copy and pastes!

Lauren, excellent and informative post - great attitude!

I suppose you would put me in the "Arminian" camp - though I do not agree or answer most things the way an Arminian does - so I don't like the label "Arminian".

 

[FranC]

John 6:29;
"The work of God is this; to believe in the one he has sent."

There are no greater works we can do.
This is it.
Our belief in Jesus Christ by the grace of God is what saves us.
Not how many times we feed the poor.
Not anything else.
Don't add anything to the Gospel.
This is it.

It sounds nice.
But, again, I repeat and ask:

WHAT does BELIEVE mean??

Fran

 

[FranC]

I would never listen to MacArthur.
He makes everything so complicated.
Christianity is not complicated.
Salvation is not complicated.
Lordshop controversy is very complicated and it all comes from MacArthur.
In his life it will probably stand out as his most famous piece of junk that he has added to Christianity.

HELP!

Who is MacArthur and what does he teach?
so many teachers, so little time ---

Fran

 

[Ariel82]

From what I have read in the Bible and studied in theology, there are three historical positions on whether we can lose our salvation.

1. Arminianism They believe you can lose your salvation, if you walk away from God, or show no works that they have been saved, including repentance. This is a centuries old doctrine. You may agree or disagree. But I do not think you can call it a heresy. Methodism,(including the Salvation Army, which comes out of Methodism; most Pentecostals and charismatics believe this.

2. Eternal security - what I call the "Baptist" doctrine, since that is where I first learned of it. (Not saying everyone has to be a Baptist to believe in eternal security, that is just my label!) This is not Calvinism, but it is a doctrine which says, that once you are saved, God is going to keep you in his hands. And that God's love is so amazing, no one will walk away. I tend to this belief system. It is a little newer, but not a heresy. Also it is the viewpoint of the OP, apparently.

3. Calvinism - This is also an historical doctrine, followed by millions of people in the Reformed and Presbyterian churches. There are 5 points, and it includes the fact that God gives us the perseverance to continue to the end, which is quite Biblical. There are extreme Calvinists, called superlapsarianists, and they do not think they can know if they are saved till they die. Which is basically a Catholic doctrine. However, they are considered extremists.

4. Oops. Forgot about the Catholics. A system of works, whereby you are sanctified gradually into Justification. So you cannot ever know if you are saved, until you are "purified" in purgatory. In my opinion, although a billion Catholics may disagree, this is the one heresy, that simply has no Biblical support.

So, probably best if we examine the Scriptures, and determine what they say. I really detest long, closely spaced posts that are little more than rants. And I do believe in eternal security, just not the way this OP and subsequent posts by the OP were written. Again, the OP would be much better to write out himself what he believes, rather than these copy and pastes!

Doubtful. I am not sure how much English he knows. All I have seen is cut and paste responses.

However they do answer the questions asked so that's good for this forum.

 

[John146]

but it is a doctrine which says, that once you are saved, God is going to keep you in his hands.

Agree Angela, and I would add, we're not only being kept in His hands...we are His hands. We are an actual part of His body! Praise the Lord!

He could never tell us, "depart from me...I never knew you."

 

[FranC]

From what I have read in the Bible and studied in theology, there are three historical positions on whether we can lose our salvation.

1. Arminianism They believe you can lose your salvation, if you walk away from God, or show no works that they have been saved, including repentance. This is a centuries old doctrine. You may agree or disagree. But I do not think you can call it a heresy. Methodism,(including the Salvation Army, which comes out of Methodism; most Pentecostals and charismatics believe this.

2. Eternal security - what I call the "Baptist" doctrine, since that is where I first learned of it. (Not saying everyone has to be a Baptist to believe in eternal security, that is just my label!) This is not Calvinism, but it is a doctrine which says, that once you are saved, God is going to keep you in his hands. And that God's love is so amazing, no one will walk away. I tend to this belief system. It is a little newer, but not a heresy. Also it is the viewpoint of the OP, apparently.

3. Calvinism - This is also an historical doctrine, followed by millions of people in the Reformed and Presbyterian churches. There are 5 points, and it includes the fact that God gives us the perseverance to continue to the end, which is quite Biblical. There are extreme Calvinists, called superlapsarianists, and they do not think they can know if they are saved till they die. Which is basically a Catholic doctrine. However, they are considered extremists.

4. Oops. Forgot about the Catholics. A system of works, whereby you are sanctified gradually into Justification. So you cannot ever know if you are saved, until you are "purified" in purgatory. In my opinion, although a billion Catholics may disagree, this is the one heresy, that simply has no Biblical support.

So, probably best if we examine the Scriptures, and determine what they say. I really detest long, closely spaced posts that are little more than rants. And I do believe in eternal security, just not the way this OP and subsequent posts by the OP were written. Again, the OP would be much better to write out himself what he believes, rather than these copy and pastes!

Hi Angela,

Not only did you forget about Catholics, you didn't properly represent them.
You've made so many mistakes in your statements that I hate to take the time to fix them:
Just quick:

1. Catholics do not believe that you are saved by works. They believe that you are saved by grace through faith.
Ephesians 2:8

2. They believe that Justification is a work of God. If they baptize babies, how could it NOT be??

3. Sanctification is an ongoing process. Protestants also believe this. We are Justified, we are Sanctified by works through a cooperation between us and God, and in the end, we are Glorified (at death).

4. Purgatory is not a third place where one goes to be purified to KNOW if he is saved.
One knows if he is saved at death if he is in God's grace (friendly with God). IF he needs purgatory for some remaining sin, then that's where he goes until he is purified, as you said.

I'm not Catholic and don't believe in purgatory because it would mean that Christ's sacrifice was not sufficient. However, I do know the doctrine and hate to let mistakes go by.

Fran

 

[PeterJens]

On this front, I always go on the issue of free will.
We are called to Christ and follow, so we can equally reject and walk away.

To say we cannot walk away seems to deny the principle of love and the calling.

I do hold Christ holds us close based on our calling, but so much of following is
transformation, a walk of communion into relationship.

 

[AllenW]

It sounds nice.
But, again, I repeat and ask:

WHAT does BELIEVE mean??

Fran

Believe me, if I knew, I'd tell ya.
Hahahahahahahahah
Oh, help me, have mercy on me!

Okay, let's get serious.
If you confess with you mouth (speak the words aloud) that Jesus is Lord, and believe (think of it as being true) in your heart that he rose from the dead, you will be saved.

So, salvation comes from speaking with your mouth and believing in your heart.
This is salvation.
It doesn't change.
Nobody can change it.
It's a promise from God.
Whether who think you want to walk away from A promise of God or not, you can't.
Because you aren't big enough.

 

[FranC]

James states that a man is justified by works. James does not say that a man is saved by works. On the matter of justification before whom do our works justify us? Our works never justify us before God.

Grace is sufficient to save us and keep us sealed by the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption. To be presented faultless before the throne of God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

.
You say above:

James says that a man is JUSTIFIED BY WORKS.
But he does NOt say that a man is SAVED BY WORKS.

Could we get our meanings straight here?
What do you think is the difference between being justified and being saved??

It's the same thing. When you are justified, you are MADE RIGHT with God. It is an act totally by God and we have nothing to do with it. We are saved by His good grace THROUGH FAITH.

JUSTIFICATION and SALVATION is the same thing.

Fran

 

[AllenW]

On this front, I always go on the issue of free will.
We are called to Christ and follow, so we can equally reject and walk away.

To say we cannot walk away seems to deny the principle of love and the calling.

I do hold Christ holds us close based on our calling, but so much of following is
transformation, a walk of communion into relationship.

What are you saying?
That you can walk away from Jesus just as easily as you can walk away from your wife?

 

[notuptome]

.
You say above:

James says that a man is JUSTIFIED BY WORKS.
But he does NOt say that a man is SAVED BY WORKS.

Could we get our meanings straight here?
What do you think is the difference between being justified and being saved??

It's the same thing. When you are justified, you are MADE RIGHT with God. It is an act totally by God and we have nothing to do with it. We are saved by His good grace THROUGH FAITH.

JUSTIFICATION and SALVATION is the same thing.

Fran

Herein lies part of the problem. Justification is a legal term and is the part of Gods decree that demands a penalty for sin. Salvation is atonement for sin and satisfaction of the penalty demanded by the law. Salvation is the application of Gods grace to us that the atonement Christ made is given to our account.

2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Saved souls do not stand before the judgment throne of God. We are passed from judgment into eternal life having already been judged and Christ as our Advocate has settled our case before God the Father. Christians stand before the judgment seat of Christ that their works might be judge but the Christian is not judge only the works they have done since salvation.

2Co 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[FranC]

Believe me, if I knew, I'd tell ya.
Hahahahahahahahah
Oh, help me, have mercy on me!

Okay, let's get serious.
If you confess with you mouth (speak the words aloud) that Jesus is Lord, and believe (think of it as being true) in your heart that he rose from the dead, you will be saved.

So, salvation comes from speaking with your mouth and believing in your heart.
This is salvation.
It doesn't change.
Nobody can change it.
It's a promise from God.
Whether who think you want to walk away from A promise of God or not, you can't.
Because you aren't big enough.

OK. What is BELIEF? If I say I must believe in Christ to be saved, what am I really saying?
Here's what Believe means in Greek, since Greek is a much deeper and fuller language than English and there's not one word to describe this, so in my own words...

BELIEVE in the way Jesus and the Apostles meant it means to
Have faith in Jesus
Believe what He says with the heart and not with the mind
Follow Him wherever He may take you
Trust in Him and do what He says
Learn from Him because you believe in Him

To have faith, to follow, to trust, to take to heart.

If we BELIEVE in our Savior, we are saved. But we must do all of the above!
What if someone STOPS believing, is he still saved? Will he still do all of the above? Will he follow Jesus the way Jesus meant us to?

I say no.

In the beatitudes Jesus says we must change and transform ourselves to be members of His Kingdom.
Mathew 5:3-8

Are we members of the Kingdom if we DON'T follow Him and believe in Him?
If we just live our life as if God doesn't even exist?

Wouldn't we now be grieving the Holy Spirit? Could we grieve the Holy Spirit and be saved all at the same time?

Fran

 

[FranC]

What are you saying?
That you can walk away from Jesus just as easily as you can walk away from your wife?

Yes. I agree with @PeterJens.
If you agree that we have free will, then you must agree that we can both accept Christ OR walk away from Him.
If we are not ALLOWED to desert Him if we want to, then what you're saying is that we have lost our free will.

If we've lost our free will, then what kind of love do we offer to God? Love that is worth nothing because it is not free.

Please explain if what you're saying is that it's VERY DIFFICULT to walk away from the love of our Lord,
OR
are you saying it's impossible? Could we at least agree that nothing is impossible? And that it IS possible to abandon God - no matter how difficult it might be.

Fran

 

[FranC]

Herein lies part of the problem. Justification is a legal term and is the part of Gods decree that demands a penalty for sin. Salvation is atonement for sin and satisfaction of the penalty demanded by the law. Salvation is the application of Gods grace to us that the atonement Christ made is given to our account.

2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Saved souls do not stand before the judgment throne of God. We are passed from judgment into eternal life having already been judged and Christ as our Advocate has settled our case before God the Father. Christians stand before the judgment seat of Christ that their works might be judge but the Christian is not judge only the works they have done since salvation.

2Co 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Uptome,

Everything you've said above is correct.

Your first Paragraph is not right, or I've not understood it.

Justification DOES NOT require a penalty. Justification happens when you REPENT of your ways, IOW, you change your mind, you change your direction, you go the OTHER WAY. Before you were headed toward satan, now you turn and head toward God. You repent.

The moment this happens, you are Justified. You are made right with God. The penalty has been paid for you by Christ and is no longer demanded.

Is this what you mean??

Fran

 

[AllenW]

Herein lies part of the problem. Justification is a legal term and is the part of Gods decree that demands a penalty for sin. Salvation is atonement for sin and satisfaction of the penalty demanded by the law. Salvation is the application of Gods grace to us that the atonement Christ made is given to our account.

2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Saved souls do not stand before the judgment throne of God. We are passed from judgment into eternal life having already been judged and Christ as our Advocate has settled our case before God the Father. Christians stand before the judgment seat of Christ that their works might be judge but the Christian is not judge only the works they have done since salvation.

2Co 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

You say saved souls don't stand before the judgment throne of God.
What verse is that?
I'd like to read it.

 

[AllenW]

OK. What is BELIEF? If I say I must believe in Christ to be saved, what am I really saying?
Here's what Believe means in Greek, since Greek is a much deeper and fuller language than English and there's not one word to describe this, so in my own words...

BELIEVE in the way Jesus and the Apostles meant it means to
Have faith in Jesus
Believe what He says with the heart and not with the mind
Follow Him wherever He may take you
Trust in Him and do what He says
Learn from Him because you believe in Him

To have faith, to follow, to trust, to take to heart.

If we BELIEVE in our Savior, we are saved. But we must do all of the above!
What if someone STOPS believing, is he still saved? Will he still do all of the above? Will he follow Jesus the way Jesus meant us to?

I say no.

In the beatitudes Jesus says we must change and transform ourselves to be members of His Kingdom.
Mathew 5:3-8

Are we members of the Kingdom if we DON'T follow Him and believe in Him?
If we just live our life as if God doesn't even exist?

Wouldn't we now be grieving the Holy Spirit? Could we grieve the Holy Spirit and be saved all at the same time?

Fran

Wow!
What are you, a MacArthur disciple?

 

[notuptome]

Uptome,

Everything you've said above is correct.

Your first Paragraph is not right, or I've not understood it.

Justification DOES NOT require a penalty. Justification happens when you REPENT of your ways, IOW, you change your mind, you change your direction, you go the OTHER WAY. Before you were headed toward satan, now you turn and head toward God. You repent.

The moment this happens, you are Justified. You are made right with God. The penalty has been paid for you by Christ and is no longer demanded.

Is this what you mean??

Fran

Justification is legal term. Jesus said He did not come to judge us and we were judged already. We were guilty of the whole law. The atonement of Christ's blood satisfied the demand or the death sentence we were given. Grace made it efficacious for us through no merit of our own. Think of the law of double jeopardy we cannot be convicted for the same crime twice.

For the cause of Christ
Roger