Exactly when and what triggered the ceasing of the gifts of the Spirit?

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P

Powemm

Guest
I have ask God and myself some serious questions when testing the spirits presenting anything to me.

What are the "fruits" of His spirit?
Love , joy , peace, patience, kindness, and long suffering..

Then I ask
Is this "of God, His spirit"

Since His seed is in us..
The more we are yielding to God" why wouldn't" spiritual gifts become "more fruitful" since we are "in christ"..?
Ceasing? I have a hard time believing God would deny His Son at any time ..
Ceasing means stopping , separating, division, eliminating..
It is a word of death not life ..

Another thing I must ask myself is ... If such gifts were in fact "ceased" .. Why wouldn't the fruits if the spirit have not been ceased with them? Those are gifts as well..

This makes me want to lay every vision Hes ever given me out there... Put it like a lamp on a table ...
I'm proclaiming what God is giving me.. Why would we ever deny that?
WOW!
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
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The gifts of the Holy Spirit and spiritual ministeries are promised right throughout the whole of the Age of Grace right up until 'the great and awesome day of the Lord' as Joel makes clear. Acts 2v16-21,38,39, (with Joel 2v28-32), 1Cor 12v7-11, Eph 4v7-16. The only reason Christians reject their present day operations is simply because, like the Israelites of old, through unbelief and disobedience they limit the Holy One of Israel! Psalm 78v41, Hebrews 3v1-4v16
rubbish.
all of it. go back and read JOEL again, and then go read what Peter said..


THIS IS THAT. < that's what he said. period. you weren't there.

he didn't say this is like that, or this is that but will stop and restart, nothing like that.

how some of you dare to claim whatever you are doing is REMOTELY like the miracles and wonders Jesus performed and the Spirit poured out is just beyond my comprehension.

what DEGRADATION of God's Glory as revealed in the Scriptures for that time!

you think Pentecost didn't happen? or that it's ONE 2000 year long pouring out?

ohmystars...mmmm.....:(



this shows me several things -

1) people do not read their Bibles, though they say they do. certainly without understanding if they do.
2) i know they are getting this from extra-biblical material and weird denominations
3) this may be the most narcissistic generation the Church has ever seen!

NO ONE HAS MADE THESE CLAIMS (LIKE MONTANUS) UNTIL THE PENTECOSTAL FIRST WAVE.

just look at this remark which is typical of this kind of vulgarity:

The only reason Christians reject their present day operations is simply because, like the Israelites of old, through unbelief and disobedience they limit the Holy One of Israel! Psalm 78v41, Hebrews 3v1-4v16
JB:

since YOU do not limit the Holy One of Israel, let's see PROOF that you are doing EXACTLY what the Books of Acts describes.

load some video.

anything.

.................

oh.....you can't, and you never will.

perpetual infancy.

if only ppl who do these things and make these claims had any idea what they are really doing, my God....the repentance and crying and pleading for forgiveness would be something to see.

if only you knew what you are claiming.
if only you knew what is coming, and is already here.

Matthew 7
True and False Prophets

15“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

True and False Disciples

21“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

The Wise and Foolish Builders

24“Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. 26But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. 27The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.”
 
Last edited:
J

J-Kay

Guest
I have been baptized in the Holy Spirit and God has used me with gifts.
I do not go looking for the experience, I am open to His nudging when
He shows me or gives me a message. I try the spirit because I know the
deceitful one would have us err if it would do harm to a person or church.
I personally have had God lay something on my heart while in Worship in
Church and would wait and question Him before acting upon it. I do know
of one occasion personally when He spoke to me there was someone in the
Service who felt they were hanging on at the end of their rope. He wanted
them to know He was there for them. I with a nervous voice, gave the word.
Later that evening I received a phone call from a person who knew the one
it was meant for, and the man it was meant for ended up becoming a missionary.
He was ready to quit. God knew, I didn't . That was my first real experience.
I get images from God when praying for someone. I only know He is always
there to use a willing vessel and it is my desire the wicked one would not deceive.
Yes, the gifts are in operation. But, the enemy is fighting this today with the watered
down gospel, and the focus is on prosperity and growth in numbers. Every Word
given should be tested. And if a prophetess comes to you, and tells you....Thus saith
the Lord, please do not act upon it until you have tested and tried the spirit. Get
someone whom you can trust, share with them and pray if it is a major event in your
life. Praise God for the gifts of the Spirit. Amen

 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
if Paul rebuked the corinthians for MISUSING THE REAL GIFTS i just shiver to think what is going to happen to all those who are playing with this counterfeit stuff.

i wonder what this might look like:

Mark 13:22
For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.

maybe Jesus didn't mean it.
 
U

unclefester

Guest
rubbish.
all of it. go back and read JOEL again, and then go read what Peter said..


THIS IS THAT. < that's what he said. period. you weren't there.

he didn't say this is like that, or this is that but will stop and restart, nothing like that.

how some of you dare to claim whatever you are doing is REMOTELY like the miracles and wonders Jesus performed and the Spirit poured out is just beyond my comprehension.

what DEGRADATION of God's Glory as revealed in the Scriptures for that time!

you think Pentecost didn't happen? or that it's ONE 2000 year long pouring out?

ohmystars...mmmm.....:(



this shows me several things -

1) people do not read their Bibles, though they say they do. certainly without understanding if they do.
2) i know they are getting this from extra-biblical material and weird denominations
3) this may be the most narcissistic generation the Church has ever seen!

NO ONE HAS MADE THESE CLAIMS (LIKE MONTANUS) UNTIL THE PENTECOSTAL FIRST WAVE.

just look at this remark which is typical of this kind of vulgarity:



JB:

since YOU do not limit the Holy One of Israel, let's see PROOF that you are doing EXACTLY what the Books of Acts describes.

load some video.

anything.

.................

oh.....you can't, and you never will.

perpetual infancy.

if only ppl who do these things and make these claims had any idea what they are really doing, my God....the repentance and crying and pleading for forgiveness would be something to see.

if only you knew what you are claiming.
if only you knew what is coming, and is already here.

Matthew 7
True and False Prophets

15“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

True and False Disciples

21“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

The Wise and Foolish Builders

24“Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. 26But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. 27The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.”
You forgot one red highlight.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
I have been baptized in the Holy Spirit and God has used me with gifts.
I do not go looking for the experience, I am open to His nudging when
He shows me or gives me a message. I try the spirit because I know the
deceitful one would have us err if it would do harm to a person or church.
I personally have had God lay something on my heart while in Worship in
Church and would wait and question Him before acting upon it. I do know
of one occasion personally when He spoke to me there was someone in the
Service who felt they were hanging on at the end of their rope. He wanted
them to know He was there for them. I with a nervous voice, gave the word.
Later that evening I received a phone call from a person who knew the one
it was meant for, and the man it was meant for ended up becoming a missionary.
He was ready to quit. God knew, I didn't . That was my first real experience.
I get images from God when praying for someone. I only know He is always
there to use a willing vessel and it is my desire the wicked one would not deceive.
Yes, the gifts are in operation. But, the enemy is fighting this today with the watered
down gospel, and the focus is on prosperity and growth in numbers. Every Word
given should be tested. And if a prophetess comes to you, and tells you....Thus saith
the Lord, please do not act upon it until you have tested and tried the spirit. Get
someone whom you can trust, share with them and pray if it is a major event in your
life. Praise God for the gifts of the Spirit. Amen

which denomination do you attend?
 
Apr 14, 2013
4
1
0
Actually there are mentions of "tongues" from the early Church leaders but they were always second-hand accounts and never first-hand.

I for one am 100% against Charismatic Christianity.
Faith Healing, Tongues, Being slain in the spirit is all garbage and has no likeness to Biblical events and most of the time it's either done due to pressure or to get the glory.

It's feelgood Christianity because people these days want to be patted on the back for everything and want to seem like they're receiving gifts so they don't have to have faith like the non-Charismatics because they're being "affirmed" by God.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
Actually there are mentions of "tongues" from the early Church leaders but they were always second-hand accounts and never first-hand.

I for one am 100% against Charismatic Christianity.
Faith Healing, Tongues, Being slain in the spirit is all garbage and has no likeness to Biblical events and most of the time it's either done due to pressure or to get the glory.

It's feelgood Christianity because people these days want to be patted on the back for everything and want to seem like they're receiving gifts so they don't have to have faith like the non-Charismatics because they're being "affirmed" by God.
satan is involved.

1 Timothy 4:1
The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.

2 Peter 2:1
But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
Actually there are mentions of "tongues" from the early Church leaders but they were always second-hand accounts and never first-hand.

I for one am 100% against Charismatic Christianity.
Faith Healing, Tongues, Being slain in the spirit is all garbage and has no likeness to Biblical events and most of the time it's either done due to pressure or to get the glory.

It's feelgood Christianity because people these days want to be patted on the back for everything and want to seem like they're receiving gifts so they don't have to have faith like the non-Charismatics because they're being "affirmed" by God.
try a pop Bible quiz.
see how gifted they are!

Paul said the REAL gifts were "childish" - meaning to maintain infancy...the new church.

if they were told to stop messing around acting ALL THAT over the real gifts he said were for a purpose and only provided the 'partial', what do we have today?

people who have the FULL, COMPLETE revelation under their arms every sunday...and go in and play around with FAKE gifts!

arg
 
P

Powemm

Guest
Yet pride feels good puffing up about it ..
and looky there , it even got a pat on the back with a "like" at the bottom of it ..
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
Yet pride feels good puffing up about it ..
and looky there , it even got a pat on the back with a "like" at the bottom of it ..
are you in a Pentecostal church?
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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When any person is committed to any denomination he cannot be fully devoted to Jesus Christ, Yeshua, nor can he understand the Word fully, for he has accepted the enlistment of another.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
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HERE'S HOW IT HAPPENED (PLANNED, AND WARNED AGAINST IN SCRIPTURE BUT NOBODY CARES OR BELIEVES IT):

Three Waves Planned (actually FOUR)



The Pentecostal Movement

(The First Wave)


The modern classical Pentecostal movement began at the beginning of the 20th century and has its roots in the holiness movement and revivalism of the 2nd Great Awakening in America during the 19th century. See A Brief History of Pentecostalism. Many see it as the revival of Montanism, a second century heresy.

See also Neo-Montanism: Pentecostalism is the ancient heresy of Montanism revived

From Bible.org comes a well written academic article well worth reading: Excited Utterances: A Historical Perspective On Prophesy, Tongues and Other Manifestations of Spiritual Ecstasy (Dr Matthew Allen). Chapter 2 of this article is on the heresy of Montanism.

Modern Pentecostals are distinguished by three main doctrines:

The baptism of the Holy Spirit
The manifestation of speaking in tongues
The manifestation of divine healing.

Speaking in tongues, also known as glossolalia, is seen as proof of the baptism with the Holy Spirit. This is one of the differences between Pentecostal and Charismatic theology. See The Doctrine of Tongues (Harold MacKay) and Speaking in Tongues (Lehman Strauss). This experience of Spirit baptism and its initial evidence in tongue speaking must be earnestly sought by believers. It doesn't just happen; conditions must be met. Consciously, fervently, actively the seeker has to do these things. Often, too, he needs the assistance of others already filled with the Spirit. These must pray for him, lay hands on him before the Spirit will come. These conditions vary, but generally they are: worship, joyous faith, earnest expectation, praise and thanksgiving, obedience, separation from sin, intense desire, baptism, asking of God, etc.

Pentecostals differ from Fundamentalists by placing more emphasis on personal spiritual experience and, in most cases, by allowing women in ministry. For an interesting article from the reformed perspective on Pentecostalism, see Pentecostalism: Its identity, History and influence and Pentecostalism in light of the Word.

The biggest difference between Pentecostal belief and Fundamentals is not in the doctrine of justification, but in the doctrine of sanctification. Increasingly today, through the ministry of people such as Billy Graham, we see many denominations including the Church in Rome finding agreement on the doctrine of justification. However it is the doctrine of sanctification in which there is wide disagreement. Key to Pentecostalism is the concept of the Full Gospel. Pentecostals believe in the concept of The Full gospel which states that the Spirit has baptized every believer into Christ at the time of conversion (Justification), but that Christ has not yet baptized every believer into the Spirit (Pentecost). To enjoy the full gospel, this experience is therefore necessary. This is a misunderstanding of the doctrine of justification.

Pentecostals also do not believe in the perseverance of the saints. That is, they do not believe in the doctrine of Eternal Security. They believe it is possible to lose salvation. They are Arminian in doctrine, rejecting Calvinism.

Within Pentecostalism is a group represented by the United Pentecostal Church. This group denies the Trinity and is often known as Oneness Pentecostalism. For more information see the apologetics index on Oneness Pentecostalism (scroll down to find the section) and also Oneness Pentecostals and their Schizophrenic God byJay N. Forrest

Pentecostal, Charismatic, Third Wave Movements < click
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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The Charismatic Renewal Movement

(The Second Wave)


The Charismatic Renewal movement began in the middle of the 20th century. At this time, Pentecostal doctrines spread into the mainline Protestant and Catholic churches as “charismatic renewal” movements with the aim of renewing the historic churches.

Charismatics differ from Pentecostals in their attitude towards doctrine. In the charismatic movement doctrine is seen as dividing believers. They shun the Biblical teaching on separation and encourage those who have ‘received the baptism’ to remain in their churches and denominations. As well, while Charismatics believe in the doctrine of Tongues, they do not place as much of an emphasis on this doctrine as Pentecostals do. In other words, it is possible to receive the baptism and not speak in tongues. See The Doctrine of Tongues (Harold MacKay) and Speaking in Tongues (Lehman Strauss)

Charismatics teach that you can get more of the Holy Spirit by being filled with the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 5:18). For a discussion on this topic see The filling of the Spirit, (Eph. 5:18) (Mark Swaim) and also The Filling of the Holy Spirit: Is it the Biblical Basis for Christian Maturity? (Arthur F. Temmesfeld, Th.M)

For further information on the charismatic movement, see:

The Line Drawn (MJ Stanford)

The book, Charismatic Chaos by John MacArthur can be read on-line (scroll down to the charismatic chaos section)

Discernment.org

Charismatic Error

Pentecostal, Charismatic, Third Wave Movements < click
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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Signs and Wonders or Neo-charismatic Movement

(The Third Wave)


Church-growth specialist C. Peter Wagner in his book, “The Third Wave of the Holy Spirit” first used the term, “Third Wave Movement.” It originated at Fuller Theological Seminary in 1981 under the classroom ministry of John Wimber, founder of the Association of Vineyard Churches (see Vineyard Christian Fellowship - An Expose). Those associated with this movement do not wish to be labeled “Pentecostal” or “charismatic.” Like the charismatic renewal, the Third Wave Movement is a renewal and revival movement.

Third Wavers are difficult to classify doctrinally because there is a de-emphasis on doctrine. As a result, doctrine can vary widely. See Third Wave Doctrines

The book, Charismatic Chaos by John MacArthur can be read on-line (scroll down to the charismatic chaos section). Chapter 6 of this book deals with The Third Wave (John MacArthur)

From Bible.org comes a well written academic article well worth reading: Excited Utterances: A Historical Perspective On Prophesy, Tongues and Other Manifestations of Spiritual Ecstasy (Dr Matthew Allen)

Below are some characteristics of the Third Wave movement:

1. Those associated with this movement do not wish to be labeled “Pentecostal” or “charismatic.” despite sharing Pentecostal-like experiences and doctrines. They simply wish to be known as evangelicals who are open to the Holy Spirit.

2. They are Gnostics. They believe God can and does communicate outside of the Scripture and directly to His children, giving new revelation that is apart from Scripture. Third Wavers thus deny the sufficiency of Scripture.

3. Five-Fold Ministry is one of the "truths" God is supposedly restoring to the church and is associated with the Latter Rain Movement. This is a system of church government with apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers. See The Faulty Foundation of the Five-Fold Ministry by Robert M. Bowman.

4. In these end times, God is re-establishing the offices of prophet and apostle with the power and authority beyond anything experienced by the Old Testament prophets and the New Testament apostles. For more information, see False Prophets, Pseudo Apostles, and a New Gospel

5. Unity is far more important than doctrine. Unity is built through relationships, not doctrine. Doctrinal differences are set aside. As a result, those riding this wave are able to infiltrate various churches with the goal of influencing the church to accept the vision of the Third Wave which is unity under modern day apostles and prophets.

6. Power Evangelism and Power Encounters. Jesus and the apostles met the needs of people by healing, casting out demons, and even raising the dead. These miracles made people interested in the Good News. This is how we should evangelize today. A Power Encounter happens when the Kingdom of God encounters the Kingdom of Satan. It is here when God shows his power over Satan and people turn to the Lord.

7. Those associated with this movement are not waiting for the return of Christ but for the Church to rise up and usher in the kingdom. The ushering in of the kingdom depends on the church. Instead of looking for the coming Savior, the church is to solve the problems of planet earth. God’s glory now replaces the physical Son of God coming back.

8. Individuals can be demonized; that is, a demon can live within a part of the body. Even a Christian can be demonized. A demon cannot inhabit the spirit of a Christian, but a demon can live in the body of a Christian.

9. Kingdom Now; Kingdom-Dominion; Restoration Theology (This is also associated with the House-church and Restoration movements. For more information, see Kingdom Theology. For an excellent article on this subject, well worth reading, see Ten reasons to reject Kingdom-Dominion teaching. Another article to read is Dominion Theology, Kingdom Now Theology, Recontructionism.

10. A favorite Scripture that those associated with this movement like to quote is Isaiah 43:19 “Behold, I will do a new thing.” For more information, see The New Thing.

Gnostics

The Greek word, gnosis means knowledge. In the first century, Gnostics insisted they were genuine, Bible believing Christians. They did not reject the apostles nor their apostolic teaching. They did not reject the Bible. They simply claimed they had an additional source of knowledge or insight that was beyond the knowledge of Scripture. This extra knowledge did not come from the study of God’s Word. It was mystical and came by direct communication from God. These private ‘revelations’ were considered divine authority. Gnostics were thus considered heretics by the early church because of their view of revelation.

Today, God does not give ‘new revelation’ to men. God is not doing ‘a new thing’. All knowledge and experiences, all ‘things’ can be found in the written Scriptures. Any knowledge, experience or ‘thing’ that cannot be found in Scripture is not of God and is not for God’s people. Any revelation that goes beyond or contradicts or adds or takes away from what is revealed in the written Word of God is a counterfeit. Experiences such as being ‘slain in the spirit’ or ‘holy laughter’ or being ‘drunk in the spirit’ are not found in Scripture. This is well known to those who teach these things. As a result, those who teach them do not try to defend their teachings with Scripture. Instead, they look for a ‘new thing’, an experience or revelation that is outside God’s Word. Because these experiences lie outside Scripture, they also lie outside the area where God’s Spirit moves. These experiences thus come from areas where other spirits move, in the occult.

Third Wave Teachers:

C. Peter Wagner

Quotes from C. Peter Wagner
New Apostolic Reformation
THE GOSPEL AND SPIRITUAL WARFARE: A REVIEW OF PETER WAGNER’S CONFRONTING THE POWERS
Welcome the new prophets to head of the church
Apologetics Research
Rick Joyner

Rich Joyner is a Gnostic. The Apologetics Research Resources on Religious Cults, Sects, Religions, Doctrines etc. has written some articles on Third Wave teachers and teachings. This research organization believes Rick Joyner and Morningstar Ministries to be one the most unsound and dangerous teachers around. His error-filled, unorthodox teachings include (but are not limited to) Kingdom Now (or Dominion) theology, extra-biblical revelation, and the denial of the bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ. Rick Joyner is a Third Wave teacher and has written many books including The Final Quest which is about Joyner's vision on what he sees is a civil war now underway in Christendom between those who support the new thing God is doing today (called the "move of God") and those who oppose it. Those who oppose the "move" as seen by Joyner, comprise the hordes of hell. The "move of God" Joyner supports is the Toronto Blessing and similar renewal and revival movements. Oppose this 'new thing God is doing' and you're in trouble. He has declared war on those who oppose the New Thing God is doing. See Rick Joyner, Christian Gnostic: Civil War for details.

Other Third Wave teachers

Other Third Wave teachers include Jack Deere, Ted Haggard, Bill Hamon, Cindy Jacobs, George Ortis Jr. and,Dutch Sheets. Click here for more information.

Unbiblical Doctrines, Teachings and Phenomena of the Third Wave Counterfeit Revival Movement

Quotes from Third Wave leaders

Pentecostal, Charismatic, Third Wave Movements < click
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
The Fourth Wave is connecting ALL THAT TO JUDAISM.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
The Fourth Wave is connecting ALL THAT TO JUDAISM.
apostate Judaism.
all leading to Communitarianism FIRST, then Talmudic Theocracy at the end.
it's already here!
 
P

Powemm

Guest
this is what's so confusing about doctrines.. .. Every doctrine thinks it's right .. Wars break out from it "obviously"

God spoke to Moses and Ezekiel "directly". Why wouldn't he with us as well?
It is a "one on one " relationship .. Am I mistaken about that ?