examples of speaking in tongues - need verification and explanations, please
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okay...IF we actually see WHERE in the Law it was written that God would 'speak' to the Jews with other tongues and other lips, will you stop and consider it?
it doesn't mean glossolalia, it doesn't mean tongues of angels.
it doesn't even mean God was literally speaking through Babylonians in Chaldea or Akkadian or whatever - it means it was a punishment...they'd be 'spoken to' through captivity and deprivation, separation from the Land of Israel BECAUSE of their not listening to Him as they should have....His speaking to them in that way was Him TEACHING them to repent and OBEY.
it's clearly written in the LAW, about God using gentiles (with their foreign languages) to PUNISH and chastise the Jews. He did it repeatedly.
the prophecy in the Law warned them that because they would not listen to Him, He would subjugate them (speak to them; get through to them) under gentiles - the Babylonians.
when they ended up beseiged by Neb's army and taken captive brutally, and by people who spoke a strange language, it would be the SIGN they should have have recalled from the prophecy they IGNORED (Isaiah - whom they killed).
the Babylonians spoke a known, human language* (see below):
here's the warning IN THE LAW in c. 725BC that they were going to Babylon:
Isaiah 28:11
New International Version (©2011)
Very well then, with foreign lips and strange tongues God will speak to this people
New Living Translation (©2007)
So now God will have to speak to his people through foreign oppressors who speak a strange language!
English Standard Version (©2001)
For by people of strange lips and with a foreign tongue the LORD will speak to this people,
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
Indeed, He will speak to this people Through stammering lips and a foreign tongue,
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
Holman Christian Standard Bible (©2009)
So He will speak to this people with stammering speech and in a foreign language.
International Standard Version (©2012)
Very well, then, through the mouths of foreigners and foreign languages the LORD will speak to this people
NET Bible (©2006)
For with mocking lips and a foreign tongue he will speak to these people.
GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
The LORD will speak to these people. He will mock them by speaking in a foreign language.
King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
American King James Version
For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
American Standard Version
Nay, but by men of'strange lips and with another tongue will he speak to this people;
Douay-Rheims Bible
For with the speech of lips, and with another tongue he will speak to this people.
Darby Bible Translation
For with stammering lips and a strange tongue will he speak to this people;
English Revised Version
Nay, but by men of strange lips and with another tongue will he speak to this people:
Webster's Bible Translation
For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
World English Bible
But he will speak to this nation with stammering lips and in another language;
Young's Literal Translation
For by scorned lip, and by another tongue, Doth He speak unto this people.
.....
Isaiah 28
10For precept must be on precept, precept on precept; line on line, line on line; here a little, and there a little: 11For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. 12To whom he said, This is the rest with which you may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
1 Corinthians 14:21
In the Law it is written: "With other tongues and through the lips of foreigners I will speak to this people, but even then they will not listen to me, says the Lord."
.....
OKAY? is it clear what God meant by "speaking to the Jews with people with stammering lips?"
NOT GLOSSOLALIA! not in 2013.
and here's the PROMISE about when they would be released from captivity to those Babylonians (who were spoken of in the Law that Paul referred to):
Isaiah 33:19
You will see those arrogant people no more, people whose speech is obscure, whose language is strange and incomprehensible.
*
Language in Babylon (take your pick):
Akkadian (lišānum akkadītum, ak.kADû) (also Accadian, Assyro-Babylonian)[1] is an extinct Semitic language (part of the greater Afroasiatic language family) that was spoken in ancient Mesopotamia. The earliest attested Semitic language,[2] it used the cuneiform writing system, which was originally used to write ancient Sumerian, an unrelated language isolate. The name of the language is derived from the city of Akkad, a major center of Semitic Mesopotamian civilization, during the Akkadian Empire (ca. 2334–2154 BC), although the language predates the founding of Akkad.
The mutual influence between Sumerian and Akkadian had led scholars to describe the languages as a sprachbund.[3] Akkadian proper names were first attested in Sumerian texts from ca. the late 29th century BC.[4] From the second half of the third millennium BC (ca. 2500 BC), texts fully written in Akkadian begin to appear. Hundreds of thousands of texts and text fragments have been excavated to date; covering a vast textual tradition of mythological narrative, legal texts, scientific works, correspondence, political and military events, and many other examples. By the second millennium BC, two variant forms of the language were in use in Assyria and Babylonia, known as Assyrian and Babylonian respectively.
Akkadian had been for centuries the lingua franca in Mesopotamia and the Ancient Near East. However, it began to decline around the 8th century BC, being marginalized by Aramaic during the Neo Assyrian Empire. By the Hellenistic period, the language was largely confined to scholars and priests working in temples in Assyria and Babylonia. The last Akkadian cuneiform document dates to the 1st century AD.[5] A fair number of Akkadian loan words survive in the Mesopotamian Neo Aramaic dialects spoken in and around modern Iraq by the indigenous Assyrian (aka Chaldo-Assyrian) Christians of the region, and the giving of Akkadian personal names, along with a number of Akkadian last names and tribal names, is still common amongst Assyrian people.
wiki
.........
so what happened during the life of Christ, and afterwards, in Israel?
a large portion of the Jews rejected Jesus AND His disciples, persecuting them and so on.
they did not OBEY the Messiah (meaning the Father either); again they would not listen (just like before they went to Babylon); some are recorded as mocking at Pentecost!
and no, they were not mocking because the disciples were speaking unknown angelic Assemblies of God gibbering (sorry, but this is SERIOUS STUFF).....
they were mocking because they did not have ears to hear. they didn't believe IN JESUS OR THAT GOD HAD PROMISED HIM COMING.
Jesus had already judged some of them, hadn't He! (He had ascended when Pentecost came):
Matthew 13:14
In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah: "'You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.
...
and, we notice it is very likely (at least reasonable) the permanent residents of Jerusalem (scribes and Pharisees) who were the mockers!
because the Disaspora Jews who were gathered heard in their own languages in which THEY WERE BORN (other nations)...we don't know for certain, but it could very well be that Hebrew was LEFT OUT of the Miracle for PUNISHMENT!
tongues were a SIGN for unbelievers (at that time, that meant JEWS - to that point He was STILL dealing only with Israel)...the languages of gentile nations/gentile anything was a sign for them that they knew well - because they DIDN'T BELIEVE God after he had already given them everything in their OWN languages!
....
look what Paul said about the advantage the Jews had been given, yet it did not profit them who were unfaithful - this principle of them having had favor, yet it profiting them nothing in unbelief can be applied to the unfaithful at Pentecost also.
God’s Righteousness Upheld
1Then what advantage has the Jew? Or what is the value of circumcision? 2Much in every way. To begin with, the Jews were entrusted with the oracles of God. 3What if some were unfaithful? Does their faithlessness nullify the faithfulness of God? 4 By no means!
He poured out His Spirit at Pentecost anyway, JUST LIKE HE PROMISED.
in gentile languages - a SIGN (jews demand/require a sign), and He had already said He would send the Spirit....He told them in Joel!
cont....
it doesn't mean glossolalia, it doesn't mean tongues of angels.
it doesn't even mean God was literally speaking through Babylonians in Chaldea or Akkadian or whatever - it means it was a punishment...they'd be 'spoken to' through captivity and deprivation, separation from the Land of Israel BECAUSE of their not listening to Him as they should have....His speaking to them in that way was Him TEACHING them to repent and OBEY.
it's clearly written in the LAW, about God using gentiles (with their foreign languages) to PUNISH and chastise the Jews. He did it repeatedly.
the prophecy in the Law warned them that because they would not listen to Him, He would subjugate them (speak to them; get through to them) under gentiles - the Babylonians.
when they ended up beseiged by Neb's army and taken captive brutally, and by people who spoke a strange language, it would be the SIGN they should have have recalled from the prophecy they IGNORED (Isaiah - whom they killed).
the Babylonians spoke a known, human language* (see below):
here's the warning IN THE LAW in c. 725BC that they were going to Babylon:
Isaiah 28:11
New International Version (©2011)
Very well then, with foreign lips and strange tongues God will speak to this people
New Living Translation (©2007)
So now God will have to speak to his people through foreign oppressors who speak a strange language!
English Standard Version (©2001)
For by people of strange lips and with a foreign tongue the LORD will speak to this people,
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
Indeed, He will speak to this people Through stammering lips and a foreign tongue,
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
Holman Christian Standard Bible (©2009)
So He will speak to this people with stammering speech and in a foreign language.
International Standard Version (©2012)
Very well, then, through the mouths of foreigners and foreign languages the LORD will speak to this people
NET Bible (©2006)
For with mocking lips and a foreign tongue he will speak to these people.
GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
The LORD will speak to these people. He will mock them by speaking in a foreign language.
King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
American King James Version
For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
American Standard Version
Nay, but by men of'strange lips and with another tongue will he speak to this people;
Douay-Rheims Bible
For with the speech of lips, and with another tongue he will speak to this people.
Darby Bible Translation
For with stammering lips and a strange tongue will he speak to this people;
English Revised Version
Nay, but by men of strange lips and with another tongue will he speak to this people:
Webster's Bible Translation
For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
World English Bible
But he will speak to this nation with stammering lips and in another language;
Young's Literal Translation
For by scorned lip, and by another tongue, Doth He speak unto this people.
.....
Isaiah 28
10For precept must be on precept, precept on precept; line on line, line on line; here a little, and there a little: 11For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. 12To whom he said, This is the rest with which you may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
1 Corinthians 14:21
In the Law it is written: "With other tongues and through the lips of foreigners I will speak to this people, but even then they will not listen to me, says the Lord."
.....
OKAY? is it clear what God meant by "speaking to the Jews with people with stammering lips?"
NOT GLOSSOLALIA! not in 2013.
and here's the PROMISE about when they would be released from captivity to those Babylonians (who were spoken of in the Law that Paul referred to):
Isaiah 33:19
You will see those arrogant people no more, people whose speech is obscure, whose language is strange and incomprehensible.
*
Language in Babylon (take your pick):
Akkadian (lišānum akkadītum, ak.kADû) (also Accadian, Assyro-Babylonian)[1] is an extinct Semitic language (part of the greater Afroasiatic language family) that was spoken in ancient Mesopotamia. The earliest attested Semitic language,[2] it used the cuneiform writing system, which was originally used to write ancient Sumerian, an unrelated language isolate. The name of the language is derived from the city of Akkad, a major center of Semitic Mesopotamian civilization, during the Akkadian Empire (ca. 2334–2154 BC), although the language predates the founding of Akkad.
The mutual influence between Sumerian and Akkadian had led scholars to describe the languages as a sprachbund.[3] Akkadian proper names were first attested in Sumerian texts from ca. the late 29th century BC.[4] From the second half of the third millennium BC (ca. 2500 BC), texts fully written in Akkadian begin to appear. Hundreds of thousands of texts and text fragments have been excavated to date; covering a vast textual tradition of mythological narrative, legal texts, scientific works, correspondence, political and military events, and many other examples. By the second millennium BC, two variant forms of the language were in use in Assyria and Babylonia, known as Assyrian and Babylonian respectively.
Akkadian had been for centuries the lingua franca in Mesopotamia and the Ancient Near East. However, it began to decline around the 8th century BC, being marginalized by Aramaic during the Neo Assyrian Empire. By the Hellenistic period, the language was largely confined to scholars and priests working in temples in Assyria and Babylonia. The last Akkadian cuneiform document dates to the 1st century AD.[5] A fair number of Akkadian loan words survive in the Mesopotamian Neo Aramaic dialects spoken in and around modern Iraq by the indigenous Assyrian (aka Chaldo-Assyrian) Christians of the region, and the giving of Akkadian personal names, along with a number of Akkadian last names and tribal names, is still common amongst Assyrian people.
wiki
.........
so what happened during the life of Christ, and afterwards, in Israel?
a large portion of the Jews rejected Jesus AND His disciples, persecuting them and so on.
they did not OBEY the Messiah (meaning the Father either); again they would not listen (just like before they went to Babylon); some are recorded as mocking at Pentecost!
and no, they were not mocking because the disciples were speaking unknown angelic Assemblies of God gibbering (sorry, but this is SERIOUS STUFF).....
they were mocking because they did not have ears to hear. they didn't believe IN JESUS OR THAT GOD HAD PROMISED HIM COMING.
Jesus had already judged some of them, hadn't He! (He had ascended when Pentecost came):
Matthew 13:14
In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah: "'You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.
...
and, we notice it is very likely (at least reasonable) the permanent residents of Jerusalem (scribes and Pharisees) who were the mockers!
because the Disaspora Jews who were gathered heard in their own languages in which THEY WERE BORN (other nations)...we don't know for certain, but it could very well be that Hebrew was LEFT OUT of the Miracle for PUNISHMENT!
tongues were a SIGN for unbelievers (at that time, that meant JEWS - to that point He was STILL dealing only with Israel)...the languages of gentile nations/gentile anything was a sign for them that they knew well - because they DIDN'T BELIEVE God after he had already given them everything in their OWN languages!
....
look what Paul said about the advantage the Jews had been given, yet it did not profit them who were unfaithful - this principle of them having had favor, yet it profiting them nothing in unbelief can be applied to the unfaithful at Pentecost also.
God’s Righteousness Upheld
1Then what advantage has the Jew? Or what is the value of circumcision? 2Much in every way. To begin with, the Jews were entrusted with the oracles of God. 3What if some were unfaithful? Does their faithlessness nullify the faithfulness of God? 4 By no means!
He poured out His Spirit at Pentecost anyway, JUST LIKE HE PROMISED.
in gentile languages - a SIGN (jews demand/require a sign), and He had already said He would send the Spirit....He told them in Joel!
cont....
please just take the time to slowly read this again......as an Historical record. try not to insert ourselves into it:
Acts 2
The Coming of the Holy Spirit
1When the day of Pentecost arrived, they were all together in one place. 2And suddenly there came from heaven a sound like a mighty rushing wind, and it filled the entire house where they were sitting. 3And divided tongues as of fire appeared to them and resteda on each one of them. 4And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance.
5Now there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men from every nation under heaven. 6And at this sound the multitude came together, and they were bewildered, because each one was hearing them speak in his own language. 7And they were amazed and astonished, saying, “Are not all these who are speaking Galileans? 8And how is it that we hear, each of us in his own native language? 9Parthians and Medes and Elamites and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya belonging to Cyrene, and visitors from Rome, 11both Jews and proselytes, Cretans and Arabians—we hear them telling in our own tongues the mighty works of God.” 12And all were amazed and perplexed, saying to one another, “What does this mean?” 13But others mocking said, “They are filled with new wine.”
Peter’s Sermon at Pentecost
14But Peter, standing with the eleven, lifted up his voice and addressed them: “Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and give ear to my words. 15For these people are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only the third hour of the day.b 16But this is what was uttered through the prophet Joel:
17 “‘And in the last days it shall be, God declares,
that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh,
and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
and your young men shall see visions,
and your old men shall dream dreams;
18 even on my male servantsc and female servants
in those days I will pour out my Spirit, and they shall prophesy.
19 And I will show wonders in the heavens above
and signs on the earth below,
blood, and fire, and vapor of smoke;
20 the sun shall be turned to darkness
and the moon to blood,
before the day of the Lord comes, the great and magnificent day.
21 And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.’
22“Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a man attested to you by God with mighty works and wonders and signs that God did through him in your midst, as you yourselves know— 23this Jesus, delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men. 24God raised him up, loosing the pangs of death, because it was not possible for him to be held by it. 25For David says concerning him,
“‘I saw the Lord always before me,
for he is at my right hand that I may not be shaken;
26 therefore my heart was glad, and my tongue rejoiced;
my flesh also will dwell in hope.
27 For you will not abandon my soul to Hades,
or let your Holy One see corruption.
28 You have made known to me the paths of life;
you will make me full of gladness with your presence.’
29“Brothers, I may say to you with confidence about the patriarch David that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. 30Being therefore a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that he would set one of his descendants on his throne, 31he foresaw and spoke about the resurrection of the Christ, that he was not abandoned to Hades, nor did his flesh see corruption. 32This Jesus God raised up, and of that we all are witnesses. 33Being therefore exalted at the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this that you yourselves are seeing and hearing. 34For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he himself says,
“‘The Lord said to my Lord,
Sit at my right hand,
35 until I make your enemies your footstool.’
36Let all the house of Israel therefore know for certain that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified.”
37Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” 38And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself.” 40And with many other words he bore witness and continued to exhort them, saying, “Save yourselves from this crooked generation.” 41So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.
The Fellowship of the Believers
42And they devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers. 43And awed came upon every soul, and many wonders and signs were being done through the apostles. 44And all who believed were together and had all things in common. 45And they were selling their possessions and belongings and distributing the proceeds to all, as any had need. 46And day by day, attending the temple together and breaking bread in their homes, they received their food with glad and generous hearts, 47praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to their number day by day those who were being saved.
.....
Peter said THIS IS THAT which Joel spoke of. c 30AD.
he said IT WAS that prophecy fulfilled.
not partially fulfilled, or a sample of, or a gap theory or anything like that.
it was THE PROMISE FULFILLED.
the last days means the last days of the Jewish Nation's exclusive service and personal knowledge of the One True God.
the last days of the old Covenant, the last days of their old ways and systems, the last days of everything!
we have been in the last days since Jesus came the First time.
this has been shown on this forum repeatedly.
17 “‘And in the last days it shall be, God declares,
that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh,
and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
and your young men shall see visions,
and your old men shall dream dreams;
18 even on my male servantsc and female servants
in those days I will pour out my Spirit, and they shall prophesy.
^ this was for and about Israel ONLY.
that's who the promise went to first.
Gentiles were included shortly after (Cornelius et al), and Paul told us in Ephesians the MYSTERY that this was God's Plan from the Beginning!
peoples from every kindred tongue and nation (as Promised to Abraham), would be gathered together in THE CHURCH, which would be the dwelling place of God!
Acts 2
The Coming of the Holy Spirit
1When the day of Pentecost arrived, they were all together in one place. 2And suddenly there came from heaven a sound like a mighty rushing wind, and it filled the entire house where they were sitting. 3And divided tongues as of fire appeared to them and resteda on each one of them. 4And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance.
5Now there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men from every nation under heaven. 6And at this sound the multitude came together, and they were bewildered, because each one was hearing them speak in his own language. 7And they were amazed and astonished, saying, “Are not all these who are speaking Galileans? 8And how is it that we hear, each of us in his own native language? 9Parthians and Medes and Elamites and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya belonging to Cyrene, and visitors from Rome, 11both Jews and proselytes, Cretans and Arabians—we hear them telling in our own tongues the mighty works of God.” 12And all were amazed and perplexed, saying to one another, “What does this mean?” 13But others mocking said, “They are filled with new wine.”
Peter’s Sermon at Pentecost
14But Peter, standing with the eleven, lifted up his voice and addressed them: “Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and give ear to my words. 15For these people are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only the third hour of the day.b 16But this is what was uttered through the prophet Joel:
17 “‘And in the last days it shall be, God declares,
that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh,
and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
and your young men shall see visions,
and your old men shall dream dreams;
18 even on my male servantsc and female servants
in those days I will pour out my Spirit, and they shall prophesy.
19 And I will show wonders in the heavens above
and signs on the earth below,
blood, and fire, and vapor of smoke;
20 the sun shall be turned to darkness
and the moon to blood,
before the day of the Lord comes, the great and magnificent day.
21 And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.’
22“Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a man attested to you by God with mighty works and wonders and signs that God did through him in your midst, as you yourselves know— 23this Jesus, delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men. 24God raised him up, loosing the pangs of death, because it was not possible for him to be held by it. 25For David says concerning him,
“‘I saw the Lord always before me,
for he is at my right hand that I may not be shaken;
26 therefore my heart was glad, and my tongue rejoiced;
my flesh also will dwell in hope.
27 For you will not abandon my soul to Hades,
or let your Holy One see corruption.
28 You have made known to me the paths of life;
you will make me full of gladness with your presence.’
29“Brothers, I may say to you with confidence about the patriarch David that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. 30Being therefore a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that he would set one of his descendants on his throne, 31he foresaw and spoke about the resurrection of the Christ, that he was not abandoned to Hades, nor did his flesh see corruption. 32This Jesus God raised up, and of that we all are witnesses. 33Being therefore exalted at the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this that you yourselves are seeing and hearing. 34For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he himself says,
“‘The Lord said to my Lord,
Sit at my right hand,
35 until I make your enemies your footstool.’
36Let all the house of Israel therefore know for certain that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified.”
37Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” 38And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself.” 40And with many other words he bore witness and continued to exhort them, saying, “Save yourselves from this crooked generation.” 41So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.
The Fellowship of the Believers
42And they devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers. 43And awed came upon every soul, and many wonders and signs were being done through the apostles. 44And all who believed were together and had all things in common. 45And they were selling their possessions and belongings and distributing the proceeds to all, as any had need. 46And day by day, attending the temple together and breaking bread in their homes, they received their food with glad and generous hearts, 47praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to their number day by day those who were being saved.
.....
Peter said THIS IS THAT which Joel spoke of. c 30AD.
he said IT WAS that prophecy fulfilled.
not partially fulfilled, or a sample of, or a gap theory or anything like that.
it was THE PROMISE FULFILLED.
the last days means the last days of the Jewish Nation's exclusive service and personal knowledge of the One True God.
the last days of the old Covenant, the last days of their old ways and systems, the last days of everything!
we have been in the last days since Jesus came the First time.
this has been shown on this forum repeatedly.
17 “‘And in the last days it shall be, God declares,
that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh,
and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
and your young men shall see visions,
and your old men shall dream dreams;
18 even on my male servantsc and female servants
in those days I will pour out my Spirit, and they shall prophesy.
^ this was for and about Israel ONLY.
that's who the promise went to first.
Gentiles were included shortly after (Cornelius et al), and Paul told us in Ephesians the MYSTERY that this was God's Plan from the Beginning!
peoples from every kindred tongue and nation (as Promised to Abraham), would be gathered together in THE CHURCH, which would be the dwelling place of God!
okay...i can believe you on that.
and yes i do trust your work.
many people can predict things. i've done it myself.
what i meant to say was: there are no more authorized prophets from God walking around giving new revelation about anything according to his Plan or Will or His Son or His anything.
it's all been revealed.
if we start accepting that there are new prophets, the sufficiency and even the authority, and possibly even the legitimacy of Scripture is immediately in question.
it's self-evident.
if someone says: "God is saying to you today __________" (which i hear continually)....what does that mean about our Bibles?
can they be trusted? i hear that a prophet will never contradict the word of God.
we could cover prophets in another thread, and use the same approach i've been trying here.
post examples of prophets or prophecies, and compare them to the Word.
and show the evidence - verifiable, not 2nd hand or anecdotes - that this was a true prophecy AND that it had relevance for the church her mission, or was in keeping with God's working in the world as we see in Scripture. and MOST IMPORTANTLY that it was directly from God. not "i felt in my spirit; or it seemed like to me; or i felt God was saying...."
so far, every time i try this, i get nowhere.
i dont want to offend you....i am a cessationist.
and yes i do trust your work.
many people can predict things. i've done it myself.
what i meant to say was: there are no more authorized prophets from God walking around giving new revelation about anything according to his Plan or Will or His Son or His anything.
it's all been revealed.
if we start accepting that there are new prophets, the sufficiency and even the authority, and possibly even the legitimacy of Scripture is immediately in question.
it's self-evident.
if someone says: "God is saying to you today __________" (which i hear continually)....what does that mean about our Bibles?
can they be trusted? i hear that a prophet will never contradict the word of God.
we could cover prophets in another thread, and use the same approach i've been trying here.
post examples of prophets or prophecies, and compare them to the Word.
and show the evidence - verifiable, not 2nd hand or anecdotes - that this was a true prophecy AND that it had relevance for the church her mission, or was in keeping with God's working in the world as we see in Scripture. and MOST IMPORTANTLY that it was directly from God. not "i felt in my spirit; or it seemed like to me; or i felt God was saying...."
so far, every time i try this, i get nowhere.
i dont want to offend you....i am a cessationist.
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P
yep why do you find that hard to believe, satan imitates god in many ways, i hate what i was then involved in. For me the worst thing was telling people many years ahead the age that they were to die, i have greatly repented of this. The saddest case for me was my best friend from school who i told would die at 39, when we were in our early twenties. He actually reminded me of this when he was 38. He died of cancer at 39.
I pray in sharing this that no fear be created but just an acknowledgement of evil forces out there. But as Christians we are filled with the holy spirit and the enemy has no hold over us.
I pray in sharing this that no fear be created but just an acknowledgement of evil forces out there. But as Christians we are filled with the holy spirit and the enemy has no hold over us.
i have a tough position
im not a cessationists
cant be a charismatic.
hmmm. so lonely
im not a cessationists
cant be a charismatic.
hmmm. so lonely
there's no such thing as a continuationist.
you gotta show the exact same gifts from Acts continuing throughout time without ceasing....else you is a cess........you know
k...ready?
paper scissors rock?
Copied from Post #79: zone. . . Don't know if you saw this but:
Hey zone. . .can you post this video for me. . .I am a dummy when it comes to the computer!!!!
youtube.com/watch?v=NZQBajYnEc
Medical Study proves Holy Spirit praying. .
Thanks.
Hey zone. . .can you post this video for me. . .I am a dummy when it comes to the computer!!!!
youtube.com/watch?v=NZQBajYnEc
Medical Study proves Holy Spirit praying. .
Thanks.
i just clutz my way through.
k...i'll post it then look at it.
ty
[video]youtube.com/watch?v=NZQBajYnEc[/video]
Medical Study proves Holy Spirit praying
CLICK
oops:
This video does not exist.
Sorry about that.
Speaking in Tongues Medical Study proves Holy Spirit praying - YouTube
maybe this peaceful?
edit: it says embedding disabled: watch on YouTube.
Uploaded on Jul 17, 2008
Univ of Penn. study examines people who speak in tongues with MRI which proves the speech center is not working.Keith Barr Minitries - Reaching The Nations for Christ. If you want to know more about speaking in tongues look at my video about speaking in tongues. After several years and over 3,000 comments many of these questions have been answered over and over again in these post. Therefore some of your comments man not be posted. Particularly offensive and remarks with profanity will probably not be posted. For other articles of scientific study on prayer view these links, Univ of Indiana study that prayer works http://newsinfo.iu.edu/news/page/norm... and view this NY Times article http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/07/hea.... It is through the power of the Holy Ghost that we are able to heal the sick. View my other videos of healing testimonies on www.youtube/revkeithbarr.
maybe this peaceful?
edit: it says embedding disabled: watch on YouTube.
Uploaded on Jul 17, 2008
Univ of Penn. study examines people who speak in tongues with MRI which proves the speech center is not working.Keith Barr Minitries - Reaching The Nations for Christ. If you want to know more about speaking in tongues look at my video about speaking in tongues. After several years and over 3,000 comments many of these questions have been answered over and over again in these post. Therefore some of your comments man not be posted. Particularly offensive and remarks with profanity will probably not be posted. For other articles of scientific study on prayer view these links, Univ of Indiana study that prayer works http://newsinfo.iu.edu/news/page/norm... and view this NY Times article http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/07/hea.... It is through the power of the Holy Ghost that we are able to heal the sick. View my other videos of healing testimonies on www.youtube/revkeithbarr.
A
welp, you know my take on that.
there's no such thing as a continuationist.
you gotta show the exact same gifts from Acts continuing throughout time without ceasing....else you is a cess........you know
k...ready?
paper scissors rock?
there's no such thing as a continuationist.
you gotta show the exact same gifts from Acts continuing throughout time without ceasing....else you is a cess........you know
k...ready?
paper scissors rock?
but it can jamb things up since its not a common
understood word where everyone agrees what it means.
its about as clear as the word "preterist"