examples of speaking in tongues - need verification and explanations, please

[GreenNnice]

document the part in red please



where does that say He gives us the words to pray?
it says CLEARLY The Holy Spirit makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

That's right, 'with groanings which cannot be uttered,' ohzone. They are words that Spirit sees in our hearts that we do not see, do not understand, but His peace passes all understanding, Phil 4:8 tells us. We ARE speaking those words, it's not us saying them, it is the Spirit interceDing for us , telling us what we OUGHT to say and pray and just because the words are not audible does not mean they are not real. They are fully REAL, the groanings and utterings are His speaking to us what we cannot do on our own ,what He understands that we cannot do on our own, hence, the 'with groanings which cannot be uttered.' God is answering the prayers that we cannot understand how to word, or, even get out of our mouths. He knows. He cares. Cast your prayers on Him because He cares , besides, prayer changes things

God knows our prayers, our things heavy on our heart BEFORE we pray But, the act of praying brings God into our lives to a level that is unseen and we will see His work through us when we pray. God WANTS His people to pray without ceasing and in our human lives there will be trouble but He has overcome the world, by His power. Pray, pray, pray, all the time, and, at times, those prayers will seem tough to even do but God will get us through as we have faith in Him, to pray, which brings our lives to righteousness in Him, believing in Him

 

[peacefulbeliever]

n.p.
i wish you had directly addressed the conflict between her claim, and the common claim made by tongue-speakers that while they are making noise (speaking in tongues) this is when the holy Spirit is interceding.
He Himself said He did so without SOUNDS.
NO WORDS.
INEXPRESSIBLE.

refer back to the text and the greek and any other references needed.

there is a conflict, and tongue-speakers would be asked to answer to why that conflict is there.
the Scriptures are true.

we are dealing DIRECTLY with something the Holy Spirit has said about HIMSELF.
and we have men saying the opposite.

i would like to see this addressed, and i request it, in Christ's Name.
for His Name's Sake.

I addressed Romans 8:26 as much as I could without studying it more. As I said I don't believe that I have ever addressed Romans 8:26 in a topic regarding tongues.

absolutely nothing, in any place in scripture ever suggests God bypasses our thinking or asks us to bypass our thinking.

zone, you just don't get it. . .

but she said she was.
and the video went through production; editing; proofing.
the pentecostal pastor involved or anyone else had the chance to change that part if it was an error.
she said it and she meant it.

all the videos say it.

I really don't care what the videos say or what they show. . .I can only speak from my own experience. . .I don't know what's in any individual's mind to say they are lying or misleading . . . I only speak for myself.

if you don't know what you are saying, and your frontal lobe is inactive, you are not in control.

He didn't say the frontal lobe was INACTIVE. . .it is LESS ACTIVE. . .I am in total control. . If I am speaking in tongues and I have to go to the bathroom. . .I can stop and go to the bathroom.

listen.
i hate these games.
they all said they are self-aware.
they all said they hear themselves.
i've heard all this part already - you have to opn your mouth and move your lips and breath before "God speaks through you"
heard it all.

can we get to the point please?

Yea, I hate these games too. But I'm not the one that started this thread "sincerely" wanting to know. . .right

there are no prophets today.

the prophets in Paul's day who were receiving NEW revelation were subject to one another, to be certain they had no false prophets among them.
their messages needed to match.

simple.

no prophets today.

Simple. A prophet doesn't just foretell something that is going to happen in the future but they can bring words of edification and exhortation to specific believers. So I'll just have to disagree.

well too bad charismatics don't obey that.
they break those commands of Paul's everytime they assemble.

I think that it is SAD that a lot of churches abuse the manifestations of the spirit. . . .

it is not about speaking in tongues.
it is refuting her claim, and the tongue-sepakers claim that when they make their noises it is the Biblical Holy Spirit interceding for them (or others).

Romans shows that is a LIE.

Like I said I will have to look further into this.

"It is not about speaking in tongues". . .the title of the thread is about speaking in tongues.

 

[GreenNnice]

Peaceful believer :
I addressed Romans 8:26 as much as I could without studying it more. As I said I don't believe that I have ever addressed Romans 8:26 in a topic regarding tongues.


zone, you just don't get it. . .


I really don't care what the videos say or what they show. . .I can only speak from my own experience. . .I don't know what's in any individual's mind to say they are lying or misleading . . . I only speak for myself.

He didn't say the frontal lobe was INACTIVE. . .it is LESS ACTIVE. . .I am in total control. . If I am speaking in tongues and I have to go to the bathroom. . .I can stop and go to the bathroom.

Yea, I hate these games too. But I'm not the one that started this thread "sincerely" wanting to know. . .right

Simple. A prophet doesn't just foretell something that is going to happen in the future but they can bring words of edification and exhortation to specific believers. So I'll just have to disagree.

I think that it is SAD that a lot of churches abuse the manifestations of the spirit. . . .

Like I said I will have to look further into this.

"It is not about speaking in tongues". . .the title of the thread is about speaking in tongues.

We use the same verse, and, I tell you the truth, I did not know you had posted that verse right ahead of me, we are in one mind on this topic, pb, but, I tell you this truth: Though we are in one mind, we are in one with Christ belieiving, just as others who do not agree with tongues being spoken by God's intercession into our life through His Holy Spirit given, we are to speak in 'Love,' just as 1 Cor. 13 speaks this truth. It's greater than faith and even hope. Love. Our words to each other should be said in Love, with understanding that not everyone is spoken to by God in the same way but STILL has the Father, Son, Holy Spirit with them, leading their live, living in their lives, the three, One

 

[Stephen63]

Sorry I'm a little late, zone, but I will try to do my best with the videos:

Please take note of the specific scope of this thread. t.y.


THIS THREAD IS FOR POSTING REAL EXAMPLES OF PEOPLE TEACHING ABOUT/AND/OR EXERCISING THIS PHENOMENON KNOWN IN SOME DENOMINATIONS AS TONGUES.

I AM SINCERELY SEEKING INPUT ONLY FROM THOSE WHO DO EXPERIENCE AND PRACTICE TONGUES.

COULD YOU PLEASE POST A RESPONSE TO ANY OR EACH VIDEO, EXPLAINING WHY THE TEACHING/PRACTICE SHOWN IN THE VIDEO IS EITHER RIGHT OR WRONG.

This is a sincere request, and only people who actually speak, or have in the past spoken in tongues are qualified to explain what is happening, and to validate or refute what is seen. if you practiced this at one time but no longer do, please participate.

everyone else is invited to post examples or ask questions.

this is a fact finding effort, and is of critical importance in many ways, not the least of which is the division this practice, or the rejection of it, has caused. i do not know if it can be resolved, but practical and civil Q&A is reasonable to request.



..................

example # 1


[video=youtube;vB06DaOGmW8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vB06DaOGmW8[/video]

"

This one is mostly correct. The inaccuracies that I remember are the backslidden or disobedient cannot use the gifts. The Spirit of God will not someone living in sin. The part about the name of the demon I doubt very seriously, but I believe the demon would do that. Satan's job is to kill, steal, and destroy. Satan will use fear, temptations, false doctrine, anything in his arsenal to get us to walk in unbelief or disobedience.

 

[Stephen63]

[video=youtube;hKqyiVuDMeE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKqyiVuDMeE[/video]

Part 4 of 4 Speaking In Tongues: How To Do It, guidance, step by step instructions .

This one is totally inaccurate. If God gives the gifts, why do we need to be taught how to do it? If I were able to give you the gift of fishing, who needs to tell you how afterwards? If any of God's gifts had to be taught, there would've been plenty of Scripture to speak about it. Nothing is listed, except how they should be used to edify the body of Christ. Gifts can be imparted. In the Old Testament Moses did it to the 70 elders. In the Gospels, Jesus breathed upon the disciples and imparted the Holy Spirit to them. Paul tells Timothy how they were imparted unto him by the laying on of hands of the Presbytery. But even then, God's servants cannot do it on their own. They must be led to do so. I can't lay hands on anybody and impart something to them just because I want to. God has to tell me to do it.

 

[Stephen63]

[video=youtube;jzipsG3-S6A]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzipsG3-S6A[/video]

This one is the most accurate. His explanations were very good.

 

[Stephen63]

As far as the gifts ceasing, one can only speculate. Between the book of Malachi and the prophecy of John the Baptist was a cessation of 400 years. There's nothing in Scripture that says it would happen or did happen. I do not know whether the gifts stopped due to unbelief, false teaching, grievous wolves, etc. etc. All I do know is the Scriptures say the signs shall follow them that believe.

I don't believe tongues are a preeminent gift above the others. Paul makes that clear when he tells us that prophecy is to be preferred over tongues.

 

[kenisyes]

my comment, which should put this entirely to rest. please indicate to me WHY it doesn't:

"...tongues speaking....

5:38 she says "when i heard about the study, i already knew it was in my spirit....that it was gonna be proven that there's a part of our brain that we have no control over. that when the Holy Spirit is interceding for us, we are out of control."

..tongues gets louder, more intense...."



does the Holy Spirit intercede for us with the tongues-speaking heard in the video?

or does He intercede for us SILENTLY, at the very most, we would be aware of a deep groan or mute sigh.
VIRTUALLY WITHOUT ANY SOUND AT ALL.


please clarify.

The word "control" and related words are shifting definition as we lay these sentences side by side. Medically, the frontal lobe controls word selection. That is the part that is out of control. The user has complete control over pace, volume, pitch, etc. So the speaker is not "out of control" in the usual sense. The tongues got louder because the people chose to make them louder. It is as much under control as music is to musicians.

A groan IS a sound. Review my original response post about the precise definition of tongues, as I explain it. Tongues are a modification of natural inborn language. This language is groans. the use of the speaking apparatus creates the "words".

 

[jinx]

How's it going today zone?

same old stuff? or did you find something new?

 

[kenisyes]

UMM But I thought we were suppose to test them first,or am I missing something? It doesn't make sense to listen to them in the first place if they are false.

When you first heard even the gospel itself, didn't you test it? moving on with God is always testing, Satan can confuse at any time.

By their fruits you will know them requires waiting for fruit.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

This one is totally inaccurate. If God gives the gifts, why do we need to be taught how to do it? If I were able to give you the gift of fishing, who needs to tell you how afterwards? If any of God's gifts had to be taught, there would've been plenty of Scripture to speak about it. Nothing is listed, except how they should be used to edify the body of Christ. Gifts can be imparted. In the Old Testament Moses did it to the 70 elders. In the Gospels, Jesus breathed upon the disciples and imparted the Holy Spirit to them. Paul tells Timothy how they were imparted unto him by the laying on of hands of the Presbytery. But even then, God's servants cannot do it on their own. They must be led to do so. I can't lay hands on anybody and impart something to them just because I want to. God has to tell me to do it.

The only gift we receive is the gift of holy spirit. In that one gift are nine manifestations. . .one of which is speaking in tongues. We do not know if the apostles taught or further expounded upon the manifestation of speaking in tongues or not. . .either way. . .scripture is silent.

If someone gives me a fishing rod as a gift, but I had never been fishing and therefore never utilized a fishing rod then I would have to be taught. If I had never spoken, I would have to be taught how to speak. If I had never walked, I would have to be taught to walk. If there is ANYTHING you have never done before, you would have to be taught.

Yes, Jesus did impart the gift of holy spirit but they did not manifest it at that time. How do we know for a certainty that Jesus didn't teach the disciples what would fully transpire on the day of Pentecost. He told them to go to Jerusalem and that they would be given power to become witnesses. . .wonder did he further explain to them concerning tongues of fire resting upon each one of them. . .and how they would manifest the gift of holy spirit by speaking in tongues? I wonder if the "tongues of fire" scared the poop out of them. . . It would me if I wasn't expecting it to happen.

Of course, scripture is silent on a lot of things. . so. . to say that no one was taught would be assuming. . .just as if I was to say for a certainty. . .they were taught. WE DON'T KNOW I do know that my experience was being told that I had to utter one sound, then another. . .after a while the sounds began to flow easily from me and developed the more that I spoke. If I hadn't been instructed. . . I would have just sat with my mouth open waiting for God to speak "through" me - like a possession. . . (which I had done!)

 

[Abiding]

id like to add something.....if the devils "job is to kill, steal, and destroy. Satan will use fear, temptations, false doctrine, anything in his arsenal to get us to walk in unbelief or disobedience." as one said...

He can also use same method to get someone to feel the need to speak in tongues
to not feel they are in unbelief or disobedience....especially since this mindset in that
crowd is believed and voiced towards those who dont speak in tongue....proven by
the many times ive heard it said and just read it said.

 

[Abiding]

and to add to that....after the person has been "taught" he or she will
spend the rest of their life prolly defending themselves because they were
trained that to doubt it is to doubt God and be in disobedience and unbelief.
Its quite a "stuck" spot.

 

[Abiding]

and by the look of things from my estimation after spending alot of years
defending yourself it becomes easier to accept other spirituals and false teachers
seem to be defended more my same group. And the bible seems to be less authoritive.

Just what ive observed.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

This one is the most accurate. His explanations were very good.

I think that Paul was more "miffed" about things being done out of order in the church than he was with tongues being in the foreground.

Two types of language: one that someone in the congregation knows. . .or tongues of angels. . .yep

This "corporate ecstasy" is incorrect. . .yep

I do agree with most of what he says except: He (God) loosens your tongue to utter those syllables. . .

I guess Stephen. . .this is just a guess. . . maybe everyone experiences operating the manifestation of tongues in a different way. . .just as everyone's path to salvation occurred under different circumstances. . .does that make sense?

 

[peacefulbeliever]

id like to add something.....if the devils "job is to kill, steal, and destroy. Satan will use fear, temptations, false doctrine, anything in his arsenal to get us to walk in unbelief or disobedience." as one said...

He can also use same method to get someone to feel the need to speak in tongues
to not feel they are in unbelief or disobedience....especially since this mindset in that
crowd is believed and voiced towards those who dont speak in tongue....proven by
the many times ive heard it said and just read it said.

Hey Abiding. . . .I never felt that I HAD to speak in tongues. . I wanted to. I don't question someone's salvation being based upon speaking in tongues or not. . . .

and to add to that....after the person has been "taught" he or she will
spend the rest of their life prolly defending themselves because they were
trained that to doubt it is to doubt God and be in disobedience and unbelief.
Its quite a "stuck" spot.

I don't see it as "I am defending myself" but more as defending what I believe scripture says. . .just as in any other scriptural topic.

 

[Abiding]

The only gift we receive is the gift of holy spirit. In that one gift are nine manifestations. . .one of which is speaking in tongues. We do not know if the apostles taught or further expounded upon the manifestation of speaking in tongues or not. . .either way. . .scripture is silent.

If someone gives me a fishing rod as a gift, but I had never been fishing and therefore never utilized a fishing rod then I would have to be taught. If I had never spoken, I would have to be taught how to speak. If I had never walked, I would have to be taught to walk. If there is ANYTHING you have never done before, you would have to be taught.

Yes, Jesus did impart the gift of holy spirit but they did not manifest it at that time. How do we know for a certainty that Jesus didn't teach the disciples what would fully transpire on the day of Pentecost. He told them to go to Jerusalem and that they would be given power to become witnesses. . .wonder did he further explain to them concerning tongues of fire resting upon each one of them. . .and how they would manifest the gift of holy spirit by speaking in tongues? I wonder if the "tongues of fire" scared the poop out of them. . . It would me if I wasn't expecting it to happen.

Of course, scripture is silent on a lot of things. . so. . to say that no one was taught would be assuming. . .just as if I was to say for a certainty. . .they were taught. WE DON'T KNOW I do know that my experience was being told that I had to utter one sound, then another. . .after a while the sounds began to flow easily from me and developed the more that I spoke. If I hadn't been instructed. . . I would have just sat with my mouth open waiting for God to speak "through" me - like a possession. . . (which I had done!)

I find many things wrong with your fishing example...rather then go into it
noone was taught to speak in tongues....they believed the gospel and poof
they were speaking in tongues.....same at Pentecost poof they spoke in tongues
noone even knew it existed or that it was going to happen.

Your idea Jesus may have taught them is....hmmm...nevermind. there are other
cases in acts....noone was taught!!!

Gifts are NOT taught....crafts are.

 

[Abiding]

Hey Abiding. . . .I never felt that I HAD to speak in tongues. . I wanted to. I don't question someone's salvation being based upon speaking in tongues or not. . . .

I don't see it as "I am defending myself" but more as defending what I believe scripture says. . .just as in any other scriptural topic.

I didnt mean everyone does....but i do mean most do and my point was that there
is a psychology whether on purpose or by accident to get people both to speak in
tongues(one way is to say its proof your saved) the other is that all can (unless your a doubter)
both have been said in this last week several ways i could pull up, that you have to, or, your
1.not as blessed 2 .cant pray as well 3. your doubting Christs will and gifts etc...its a very
very bad bunch of distraction and to me tends to make people both superspiritually oriented
to the point they are unhappy to have a normal week without something supernatural to see
hear or experience.

But no i didnt mean all...just most....id give dozens of examples from cc but that would look bad.

 

[tono77]

This one is the most accurate. His explanations were very good.

I like that in min 5:55 , He confess he would be eager to speak in tongues , and once He would sing in tongues in the flesh, I did the same tried to pray in tongues, So I am not the only one that flasely have tried to speak in tongues, I do believe in this gift with all my heart, but God know , who he give it too, and when. It just not for us to envy it, or learn it.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

I find many things wrong with your fishing example...rather then go into it
noone was taught to speak in tongues....they believed the gospel and poof
they were speaking in tongues.....same at Pentecost poof they spoke in tongues
noone even knew it existed or that it was going to happen.

Your idea Jesus may have taught them is....hmmm...nevermind. there are other
cases in acts....noone was taught!!!

Gifts are NOT taught....crafts are.

You are correct gifts are not taught. . .there is one gift. . .holy spirit. . .and it was given. There are nine manifestations within that one gift that are manifested by the believer. Just as there is the "fruit" of the spirit but nine "fruits" within that "fruit" which the believer manifest.

You are correct we don't know for a certainty if Jesus taught them or at least told them what would happen on Pentecost to prepare them . . . just as we don't know for a certainty that he didn't.

This is just my thoughts on the matter. . .it's okay if you do not believe anyone was taught. . .I'm just saying that we don't know for sure either way.