examples of speaking in tongues - need verification and explanations, please
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2:49 the doctor/specialist says it is "not language, it's not regular language at least that would activate the frontal lobe".
3:30 narrator says "what is happening to them neurologically looks a lot like what they say is happening to them spiritually"
4:02 narrator "first he's told to pray in English, then he's told to speak in tongues"
....tongues....
the scan shows the frontal lobe active when praying in English; "down in activity" when speaking in tongues.
4:50 doctor: "i think it's very consistent with the kind of experience they say they are having - they're not in charge, it's the voice of God, it's the Spirit of God that's moving through them"
5:00 a new subject with different test....she listens to music then goes "where the Spirit takes her" - she speaks in tongues.
...tongues speaking....
5:38 she says "when i heard about the study, i already knew it was in my spirit....that it was gonna be proven that there's a part of our brain that we have no control over. that when the Holy Spirit is interceding for us, we are out of control."
..tongues gets louder, more intense....
the doctor says he also studied Buddhists who meditate, and Monks who were praying, and found a stark difference from the tongue-speakers.
(we already were told though that the praying activates the frontal lobe. meditation is another thing altogether, so i see no relevance to this)
the doctor says he can tell what happens in the brain, but not why.
he's not prepared to say it has anything to do with God.
the pastor then appears and says he doesn't care if tongues were validated or not.
~
okay:
my comment, which should put this entirely to rest. please indicate to me WHY it doesn't:
"...tongues speaking....
5:38 she says "when i heard about the study, i already knew it was in my spirit....that it was gonna be proven that there's a part of our brain that we have no control over. that when the Holy Spirit is interceding for us, we are out of control."
..tongues gets louder, more intense...."
Romans 8:26
New International Version (©2011)
In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans.
New Living Translation (©2007)
And the Holy Spirit helps us in our weakness. For example, we don't know what God wants us to pray for. But the Holy Spirit prays for us with groanings that cannot be expressed in words.
English Standard Version (©2001)
Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words.
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
In the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words;
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
Holman Christian Standard Bible (©2009)
In the same way the Spirit also joins to help in our weakness, because we do not know what to pray for as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with unspoken groanings.
~
unspoken.
wordless.
no noise.
unexpressed
can not be uttered.
a sigh.
mute sighs.
unspeakable.
.....
stenagmos: a groaning
Original Word: στεναγμός, οῦ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: stenagmos
Phonetic Spelling: (sten-ag-mos')
Short Definition: a groaning
Definition: a groaning, sighing.
Cognate: 4726 stenagmós – groaning (sighing), especially brought on by circumstances creating great pressure. See 4727 (stenazō).
στεναγμός, στεναγμοῦ, ὁ (στενάζω), a groaning, a sigh: Acts 7:34; Romans 8:26; see ἀλάλητος. ((Pindar), Tragg., Plato, Josephus, Plutarch, others; the Sept. for אֲנָחָה, אֲנָקָה, נְאָקָה.)
alalétos: inexpressible
Original Word: ἀλάλητος, ον
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: alalétos
Phonetic Spelling: (al-al'-ay-tos)
Short Definition: unutterable, that baffles words
Definition: unutterable, that baffles words, unexpressed.
ἀλάλητος, (λαλητός from λαλέω; (cf. Winers Grammar, 23)), not to be uttered, not to be expressed in words: στεναγμοί mute sighs, the expression of which is suppressed by grief, Romans 8:26 (others, 'which (from their nature) cannot be uttered'; cf. Meyer at the passage; Winers Grammar, 97 (92)). (Anth. Pal. 5, 4 συνίστορα ἀλαλήτων, i. e. of love-secrets.)
unutterable, inexpressible.
From a (as a negative particle) and a derivative of laleo; unspeakable -- unutterable, which cannot be uttered.
QUESTION:
does the Holy Spirit intercede for us with the tongues-speaking heard in the video?
or does He intercede for us SILENTLY, at the very most, we would be aware of a deep groan or mute sigh.
VIRTUALLY WITHOUT ANY SOUND AT ALL.
please clarify.
G
oh brother.
THIS ISN'T THAT HARD!
really. i'm sorry, but you can not go in and splice out that verse and force it to be some private prayer language.
For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue - This verse is designed to show that the faculty of speaking intelligibly, and to the edification of the church, is of more value than the power of speaking a foreign language.
The reason is, that however valuable may be the endowment [speaking a foreign language] in itself, and however important the truth which he may utter [while speaking a foreign language], yet it is as if he spoke to God only. No one could understand him
Barnes
THIS ISN'T THAT HARD!
really. i'm sorry, but you can not go in and splice out that verse and force it to be some private prayer language.
For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue - This verse is designed to show that the faculty of speaking intelligibly, and to the edification of the church, is of more value than the power of speaking a foreign language.
The reason is, that however valuable may be the endowment [speaking a foreign language] in itself, and however important the truth which he may utter [while speaking a foreign language], yet it is as if he spoke to God only. No one could understand him
Barnes
oh puleeze.
i've posted consistently sincere and probing requests and videos and posted scripture and asked and answered concerns and objections.
FOR 3 YEARS HERE BTW
if i have a laugh now and then or call BS - SUCK IT UP. answer it!
graybeard, poor poor you.
sucked in by Demon Tongue-Stop (Zone apparently) who really has NO INTEREST in being faithful to The Lord, and His Word....
no, i rather spend all my time waiting to 'be deceitful and ridicule'.
that kind of blah blah whining just shows the weakness of your tongues argument and your faith.
and the foolishness of the whole tongues platform.
you got NUTHIN'
go away.
i've posted consistently sincere and probing requests and videos and posted scripture and asked and answered concerns and objections.
FOR 3 YEARS HERE BTW
if i have a laugh now and then or call BS - SUCK IT UP. answer it!
graybeard, poor poor you.
sucked in by Demon Tongue-Stop (Zone apparently) who really has NO INTEREST in being faithful to The Lord, and His Word....
no, i rather spend all my time waiting to 'be deceitful and ridicule'.
that kind of blah blah whining just shows the weakness of your tongues argument and your faith.
and the foolishness of the whole tongues platform.
you got NUTHIN'
go away.
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G
Why do people speak in tongues?
It is for edification of self, just like Doubting Thomas needed edifying of his spiritual condition and Jesus provided that by having Thomas touch him.
Prophesying is for edifying believers. I'm guessing ,that a church that is not going according to God's Word, or, hmm, doubting His Word in their church, maybe, they are not seeing enough miracles, may have this gift surface. I don't know, but, we are to produce fruit and God will cut off the branches that are not producing fruit in our lives.
The being taught to speak in tongues and it is 'learned,' is just hocus pocus hijinks . There is no question that God used tongues in bible times, like prophesy, and, that there is His purpose in doing so, and, as I've said before, a lot of times, people don't even realize that God is using spiritual gifts in them, but, He is, and, we are to have faith that when fruit is being produced and we don't SEE it, like Thomas, we are to STILL believe that God is doing what He says He is doing and that 'doing' is quite simple: bringing glory to Himself through us, as we are MADE to do, working for Him . Eph. 2:10
Just silly to think that tongues is some earthly understanding thing, it's not, it's spiritual and it's ALL God's Spirit working through our spirit which is in Him, we, on Earth, are no longer Earthly body beings, we are spiritual beings in an Earthly body, made to perform our lives through the HOly Spirit, HIS Holy Spirit in us, leading our lives, tongues included, prophecy included, ALL the gifts of the Spirit included, so, that we CAN produce fruits of the Spirit as Gal. 5 says .
It is for edification of self, just like Doubting Thomas needed edifying of his spiritual condition and Jesus provided that by having Thomas touch him.
Prophesying is for edifying believers. I'm guessing ,that a church that is not going according to God's Word, or, hmm, doubting His Word in their church, maybe, they are not seeing enough miracles, may have this gift surface. I don't know, but, we are to produce fruit and God will cut off the branches that are not producing fruit in our lives.
The being taught to speak in tongues and it is 'learned,' is just hocus pocus hijinks . There is no question that God used tongues in bible times, like prophesy, and, that there is His purpose in doing so, and, as I've said before, a lot of times, people don't even realize that God is using spiritual gifts in them, but, He is, and, we are to have faith that when fruit is being produced and we don't SEE it, like Thomas, we are to STILL believe that God is doing what He says He is doing and that 'doing' is quite simple: bringing glory to Himself through us, as we are MADE to do, working for Him .
Eph. 2:10 Just silly to think that tongues is some earthly understanding thing, it's not, it's spiritual and it's ALL God's Spirit working through our spirit which is in Him, we, on Earth, are no longer Earthly body beings, we are spiritual beings in an Earthly body, made to perform our lives through the HOly Spirit, HIS Holy Spirit in us, leading our lives, tongues included, prophecy included, ALL the gifts of the Spirit included, so, that we CAN produce fruits of the Spirit as Gal. 5 says .
G
Huh? What's so complicated, ohzone? Tongues is a spiritual gift, is it not? What's in violation here? Some speak in tongues TODAY, and, you can believe it's 'learned,' or, not, I don't believe it's learned, it's from His Spirit in you speaking up things, groanings, utterances, etc. I take the Word's words as literal and having happened and do happen and will continue to happen, and, though God does NOT need us to speak in tongues (He doesn't need us to do anything ) , He uses us as pure vessels to do His work . it's not complicated. God is at work, and, those who speak in tongues are doing His work, I believe, IF it's His will for their life. I'm not one to interfere with God's will, I would hope and pray. Are you, ohzone?
you can't even be bothered to make the distinction between the Biblical gift of LANGUAGES (earthly, human gentile known) poured out SUPERNATURALLY for the start of the spread of the Gospel and inclusion of the gentiles......and the Spirit interceding for us.
TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THINGS.
not related. nothing whatsoever to do with the other.
huh?
interfering with GOD' WORK?
what does that have to do with glossolalia?
and what does glossolalia have to do with what happens when the Spirit intercedes with MUTE SIGHS AND DEEP GROANINGS - not words, not sounds, not jabbering, not talking, not sounds?
please address post 207
TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THINGS.
not related. nothing whatsoever to do with the other.
huh?
interfering with GOD' WORK?
what does that have to do with glossolalia?
and what does glossolalia have to do with what happens when the Spirit intercedes with MUTE SIGHS AND DEEP GROANINGS - not words, not sounds, not jabbering, not talking, not sounds?
please address post 207
G
ohzone:
re: post #207 : The Spirit interacts in us any way He wants to, ohzone, it can be silent groanings, or, mute sigh, or, just leading our lives. What do you need, ohzone, to be spiritually following Him? If you don't know, pray, He will tell you, and, HOW He does it, I don't know, great is the mystery of godliness
Anyway, it's a good thread and your disposition in it should be commended, milady . I don't see the usual accustational stuff, this is a civil topic and I just am posting, hopefully, prayerfully, on topic, I have nothing further on it, God bless
Anyway, it's a good thread and your disposition in it should be commended, milady . I don't see the usual accustational stuff, this is a civil topic and I just am posting, hopefully, prayerfully, on topic, I have nothing further on it, God bless
Thank you for your help, zone.
I just thought it was interesting in that the frontal lobe which controls language is active in regular prayer and fell quieter in when praying in tongues. When you pray in your own language a lot of thought is put into what you are going to say, what you are going to pray about but when you pray in tongues there is none of that thought process. . . you just speak. . . .
The woman that said she was "out of control". . .I do not agree with. She knew when she was speaking . . . not what she was speaking but WHEN she was speaking. I dare anyone to just open their mouth and wait for God to speak through them without them knowing, without them moving their mouth, without them moving their tongue. . .all the regular processes of speech. . . Let me know how that comes out.
A prophet which is someone who speaks for God - is in control when they speak for God. The holy spirit does not possess them and MAKE them speak what he wants them to speak
The spirits of prophets are subject to the control of the prophets.The spirit of the prophets in this context is the following. . .2) the spirit, i.e. the vital principal by which the body is animated a) the rational spirit, the power by which the human being feels, thinks, decides b) the soul
are subject to the control of the prophets: 1) to arrange under, to subordinate 2) to subject, put in subjection 3) to subject one's self, obey 4) to submit to one's control 5) to yield to one's admonition or advice 6) to obey, be subject
It's the same when someone speaks in tongues. . .the holy spirit does not possess them and MAKE them speak in tongues. That is why it says: God is not a God of disorder but of peace-- and everything should be done in a fitting and orderly way.
I'm not sure if I have made any claims as to Romans 8:26 but I may have. I'm not absolutely sure if it is in reference to speaking in tongues. I'd have to look at all the places "groaning" is used and then relate it to this passage and surrounding context.
I just thought it was interesting in that the frontal lobe which controls language is active in regular prayer and fell quieter in when praying in tongues. When you pray in your own language a lot of thought is put into what you are going to say, what you are going to pray about but when you pray in tongues there is none of that thought process. . . you just speak. . . .
The woman that said she was "out of control". . .I do not agree with. She knew when she was speaking . . . not what she was speaking but WHEN she was speaking. I dare anyone to just open their mouth and wait for God to speak through them without them knowing, without them moving their mouth, without them moving their tongue. . .all the regular processes of speech. . . Let me know how that comes out.
A prophet which is someone who speaks for God - is in control when they speak for God. The holy spirit does not possess them and MAKE them speak what he wants them to speak
The spirits of prophets are subject to the control of the prophets.The spirit of the prophets in this context is the following. . .2) the spirit, i.e. the vital principal by which the body is animated a) the rational spirit, the power by which the human being feels, thinks, decides b) the soul
are subject to the control of the prophets: 1) to arrange under, to subordinate 2) to subject, put in subjection 3) to subject one's self, obey 4) to submit to one's control 5) to yield to one's admonition or advice 6) to obey, be subject
It's the same when someone speaks in tongues. . .the holy spirit does not possess them and MAKE them speak in tongues. That is why it says: God is not a God of disorder but of peace-- and everything should be done in a fitting and orderly way.
I'm not sure if I have made any claims as to Romans 8:26 but I may have. I'm not absolutely sure if it is in reference to speaking in tongues. I'd have to look at all the places "groaning" is used and then relate it to this passage and surrounding context.
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re: post #207 : The Spirit interacts in us any way He wants to, ohzone, it can be silent groanings, or, mute sigh, or, just leading our lives. What do you need, ohzone, to be spiritually following Him? If you don't know, pray, He will tell you, and, HOW He does it, I don't know, great is the mystery of godliness
please clarify
please clarify
i didn't ask about Him INTERACTING.
i asked about what HE HIMSELF recorded in the Bible about when HE INTERCEDES.
please properly address 207 or admit you have no clue what any of it is.
n.p.
i wish you had directly addressed the conflict between her claim, and the common claim made by tongue-speakers that while they are making noise (speaking in tongues) this is when the holy Spirit is interceding.
He Himself said He did so without SOUNDS.
NO WORDS.
INEXPRESSIBLE.
refer back to the text and the greek and any other references needed.
there is a conflict, and tongue-speakers would be asked to answer to why that conflict is there.
the Scriptures are true.
we are dealing DIRECTLY with something the Holy Spirit has said about HIMSELF.
and we have men saying the opposite.
i would like to see this addressed, and i request it, in Christ's Name.
for His Name's Sake.
absolutely nothing, in any place in scripture ever suggests God bypasses our thinking or asks us to bypass our thinking.
but she said she was.
and the video went through production; editing; proofing.
the pentecostal pastor involved or anyone else had the chance to change that part if it was an error.
she said it and she meant it.
all the videos say it.
if you don't know what you are saying, and your frontal lobe is inactive, you are not in control.
listen.
i hate these games.
they all said they are self-aware.
they all said they hear themselves.
i've heard all this part already - you have to opn your mouth and move your lips and breath before "God speaks through you"
heard it all.
can we get to the point please?
there are no prophets today.
the prophets in Paul's day who were receiving NEW revelation were subject to one another, to be certain they had no false prophets among them.
their messages needed to match.
simple.
no prophets today.
well too bad charismatics don't obey that.
they break those commands of Paul's everytime they assemble.
it is not about speaking in tongues.
it is refuting her claim, and the tongue-sepakers claim that when they make their noises it is the Biblical Holy Spirit interceding for them (or others).
Romans shows that is a LIE.
i wish you had directly addressed the conflict between her claim, and the common claim made by tongue-speakers that while they are making noise (speaking in tongues) this is when the holy Spirit is interceding.
He Himself said He did so without SOUNDS.
NO WORDS.
INEXPRESSIBLE.
refer back to the text and the greek and any other references needed.
there is a conflict, and tongue-speakers would be asked to answer to why that conflict is there.
the Scriptures are true.
we are dealing DIRECTLY with something the Holy Spirit has said about HIMSELF.
and we have men saying the opposite.
i would like to see this addressed, and i request it, in Christ's Name.
for His Name's Sake.
absolutely nothing, in any place in scripture ever suggests God bypasses our thinking or asks us to bypass our thinking.
but she said she was.
and the video went through production; editing; proofing.
the pentecostal pastor involved or anyone else had the chance to change that part if it was an error.
she said it and she meant it.
all the videos say it.
if you don't know what you are saying, and your frontal lobe is inactive, you are not in control.
listen.
i hate these games.
they all said they are self-aware.
they all said they hear themselves.
i've heard all this part already - you have to opn your mouth and move your lips and breath before "God speaks through you"
heard it all.
can we get to the point please?
there are no prophets today.
the prophets in Paul's day who were receiving NEW revelation were subject to one another, to be certain they had no false prophets among them.
their messages needed to match.
simple.
no prophets today.
well too bad charismatics don't obey that.
they break those commands of Paul's everytime they assemble.
it is not about speaking in tongues.
it is refuting her claim, and the tongue-sepakers claim that when they make their noises it is the Biblical Holy Spirit interceding for them (or others).
Romans shows that is a LIE.
G
Not 1 Corinthians, Romans, ohzone.
But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it. 26Likewise the Spirit also helps our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27And he that searches the hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because he makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it. 26Likewise the Spirit also helps our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27And he that searches the hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because he makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
Great, then, that is how THAT MAN was interceded by the Spirit. Yes, the Spirit intercedes for us with groanings and sighs--gives us the words to say in our prayers too--- when we don't know what to pray for, just as 1 Cor. says
where does that say He gives us the words to pray?
it says CLEARLY The Holy Spirit makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.