F I R M A M E N T U M
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I'm sure he's put a lot of time and energy into adopting his view, which makes it that much more difficult to come to terms that it might've all been wasted time and energy so I can understand why he might do such a thing, i.e. resort to fallacy tactics. After all, I know first hand that wisdom comes best by admitting and learning from mistakes and correcting course, while foolishness is persisting in them.
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Alas, what a mess... 
Let it be known that what follows (whatever I post) is expressly for the purpose of helping others better understand certain words and phrases in scripture from a Flat Earth perspective.
I really don't want to argue or debate the topic.
However, as always/usual, I am willing to try to help others better understand the Flat Earth perspective - based on my understanding of the topic - so that they may make a more knowledgeable examination of it...
Let it be known that what follows (whatever I post) is expressly for the purpose of helping others better understand certain words and phrases in scripture from a Flat Earth perspective.
I really don't want to argue or debate the topic.
However, as always/usual, I am willing to try to help others better understand the Flat Earth perspective - based on my understanding of the topic - so that they may make a more knowledgeable examination of it...
The firmament is not the dome; rather, it is the space under the dome occupied by the first heaven (where birds fly) + the second heaven (where the sun, moon, and stars are).
The dome itself is made of water - or - has water above it.
Scripture says there is water above the firmament.
'outer space' - beyond the dome - is the third heaven.
The 'circle of the earth' (Isaiah 40:22) is referring to the 'circle' that is made by the sun (melting the ice) where the oceans meet the 'ice wall'.
This is the 'circle' that God made on "the face of the deep"...
It is not the whole earth; rather, it is a 'circle' on the earth - which marks the 'habitable' area of the earth.
I believe the shape of the earth is actually square - with the 'circle of the earth' in the center of it.
The dome itself is made of water - or - has water above it.
Scripture says there is water above the firmament.
'outer space' - beyond the dome - is the third heaven.
The 'circle of the earth' (Isaiah 40:22) is referring to the 'circle' that is made by the sun (melting the ice) where the oceans meet the 'ice wall'.
This is the 'circle' that God made on "the face of the deep"...
It is not the whole earth; rather, it is a 'circle' on the earth - which marks the 'habitable' area of the earth.
I believe the shape of the earth is actually square - with the 'circle of the earth' in the center of it.
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One of these days - Lord willing - I will actually get around to watching this...
I'll probably redo this video at some point and tweak it a bit while polishing it up. But it's a fairly good overview of the Earth realm as described in the Scriptures.
Good thoughts. You are correct, the Earth has both pillars and corners, maybe rounded corners, according to the Scriptures. The "Antarctic Basin" or "world pond" in which the continents reside is likely circular because of the nature of the Sun's circuit warming the face of the great deep, which the Bible says is frozen.
I have some different thoughts about the three heavens. I think the birds fly in the first Heaven - the atmosphere - and the Sun, Moon, and planets/wandering stars make their circuits here. (By the way, the wandering stars make spirograph-like movements over the Earth plane, someone plotted them out and it's really amazing)
The second heaven is the realm of the angels, and the third Heaven is where God's throne is. I make this assessment (perhaps incorrectly, as the Bible leaves a lot of room for other thoughts on this) because the OT prophets seem to have been in second Heaven looking up through another firmament layer seeing the Godthrone above them. They did not have the Holy Spirit's protection. Paul was caught up to Third Heaven, having the Holy Spirit.
In this view, Satan's sin involved him wanting to rise above his appointed place - second heaven. His punishment was being cast down into the Earth realm.
I have some different thoughts about the three heavens. I think the birds fly in the first Heaven - the atmosphere - and the Sun, Moon, and planets/wandering stars make their circuits here. (By the way, the wandering stars make spirograph-like movements over the Earth plane, someone plotted them out and it's really amazing)
The second heaven is the realm of the angels, and the third Heaven is where God's throne is. I make this assessment (perhaps incorrectly, as the Bible leaves a lot of room for other thoughts on this) because the OT prophets seem to have been in second Heaven looking up through another firmament layer seeing the Godthrone above them. They did not have the Holy Spirit's protection. Paul was caught up to Third Heaven, having the Holy Spirit.
In this view, Satan's sin involved him wanting to rise above his appointed place - second heaven. His punishment was being cast down into the Earth realm.
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Yes, I have come to see that outer space and the solar system are deceptions intended to distract from God's plan for humanity and to put "Helios"(an image of Lucifer) at the center of our reality. The origins of this deception can be traced back to Babylonian mystery religions and made their way to the West via Pythagoras who is lauded as the first Freemason and through a whole long line of secret societies. The earliest depiction of a globe that I am aware of is on a Jesuit pendant. The first globe itself is from 1492.
I was reading one of the Greeks about a month ago, I forget which one, but he clearly was not a heliocentrist. The idea that people have always believed in the solar system is just a lie. There was a significant enclave of Bible believing Christians about 130 years ago who believed the Earth is a flat realm.
I was reading one of the Greeks about a month ago, I forget which one, but he clearly was not a heliocentrist. The idea that people have always believed in the solar system is just a lie. There was a significant enclave of Bible believing Christians about 130 years ago who believed the Earth is a flat realm.
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No I reject your poor understanding of the word of God, you take the word of God and try to make it say what you want it to say that doesn't make it truth it just makes it your truth.
One can grasp anothers understanding of scripture not by how well they know the scriptures but how they use the scriptures, anyone can learn and memorize the scriptures but understanding them requires a deeper level of insight and how one uses them shows ones level of understanding.
You chose to use them to try to prove the earth is flat with great determination for what purpose I don't know you took them out of their original context to make them say something else to fit your intended narrative you then proceed to use them to mock and attack others. So by these fruits my conclusion is that you know the scriptures but have little understanding of them you are no witness of God and do not know of the witness of God because if you did you would have been able to see the many errors in your actions in this thread.
You sir have much to learn before you decide to take on anyone here in a debate you simply are not mature enough and I say as a matter of fact not to put you down but you are quick to attack and mock quick to say you are attacked you are so steadfast that you are right that you are blind to your own error even though many have already given you wise council. Quite frankly you lost this debate the moment you were unable to disprove my point about mass and gravity because in order to keep your flat earth theory alive you have to get rid of mass and gravity yet both exist and function in this reality your own body has mass and gravity and is why you are not floating away right now
One can grasp anothers understanding of scripture not by how well they know the scriptures but how they use the scriptures, anyone can learn and memorize the scriptures but understanding them requires a deeper level of insight and how one uses them shows ones level of understanding.
You chose to use them to try to prove the earth is flat with great determination for what purpose I don't know you took them out of their original context to make them say something else to fit your intended narrative you then proceed to use them to mock and attack others. So by these fruits my conclusion is that you know the scriptures but have little understanding of them you are no witness of God and do not know of the witness of God because if you did you would have been able to see the many errors in your actions in this thread.
You sir have much to learn before you decide to take on anyone here in a debate you simply are not mature enough and I say as a matter of fact not to put you down but you are quick to attack and mock quick to say you are attacked you are so steadfast that you are right that you are blind to your own error even though many have already given you wise council. Quite frankly you lost this debate the moment you were unable to disprove my point about mass and gravity because in order to keep your flat earth theory alive you have to get rid of mass and gravity yet both exist and function in this reality your own body has mass and gravity and is why you are not floating away right now
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You reject my understanding of the word "waters"?
No deeper levels of insight. You must humble yourself like a child, the kingdom of Heaven is of the children of God:
Matthew 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
I disproved it on my first response, but I'll do it again:
1 John 5:9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.
The witness of the Word is Greater, than all the traditions of men:
Mark 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
No deeper levels of insight. You must humble yourself like a child, the kingdom of Heaven is of the children of God:
Matthew 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
I disproved it on my first response, but I'll do it again:
1 John 5:9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.
The witness of the Word is Greater, than all the traditions of men:
Mark 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
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And you see this is a perfect example of you trying to make the word of God say what you want it to say. You and I both know when he spoke of the tradition of men he was not speaking of science and how the universe works he was speaking of the traditions that they practiced back in those days that they did as works. This in no way disporves my point an quite honestly is a very poor attempt to do so. Let me ask you this when you jump do you not fall back to the ground? do you know why that is? it is because of mass and gravity your body has mass and gravity causses you to fall back to the earth that isn't traditions of man it is science in the same way the earth has mass and it is because of it's mass and because of how gravity works that it is not pulled into the sun so do you want to try again or would you like to explain to me how when you jump and fall back to the ground is traditions of man because it is the same concept as my point with earth and it's mass and gravity
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Mark 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
The point is the same, either with jewish traditions or science, you are making the same mistake, "making the word of God of none effect", because of science. You are believing the witnesses of men of science over the witness of the Word.
The Word teaches "waters above the firmament". So your "outter-space" is rebuked already. I don't know if you noticed, this is "Bible Discussion", Im trying to discuss the Word, but you want me to discuss "science"; "matter"; "gravity". That is not what I'm here for, Im sorry. There are plenty of scientific forums out there. Anyways:
There is no problem with mass and gravity, because the Sun has been commanded where to go, so the Sun won't drop down to the earth, because he will not disobey the commandments of the Father, similar to the seas:
Proverbs 8:29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:
Even tho we fall back to the earth, the sun doesn't, because the sun has been commanded his circuit, and to not fall to the earth:
The point is the same, either with jewish traditions or science, you are making the same mistake, "making the word of God of none effect", because of science. You are believing the witnesses of men of science over the witness of the Word.
The Word teaches "waters above the firmament". So your "outter-space" is rebuked already. I don't know if you noticed, this is "Bible Discussion", Im trying to discuss the Word, but you want me to discuss "science"; "matter"; "gravity". That is not what I'm here for, Im sorry. There are plenty of scientific forums out there. Anyways:
There is no problem with mass and gravity, because the Sun has been commanded where to go, so the Sun won't drop down to the earth, because he will not disobey the commandments of the Father, similar to the seas:
Proverbs 8:29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:
Even tho we fall back to the earth, the sun doesn't, because the sun has been commanded his circuit, and to not fall to the earth:
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