Falling away from the Faith (it's possible)
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The writer is writing to Jews considering becoming Christians. They are not yet 'saved'. They are in danger of neglecting the 'salvation' which is on offer. The 'we' is 'we Jews'. It is quite clear really'
But you obviously do not know WHAT osas believe. It is GOD Who saves and keeps us. He cannot fail.
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Wait for the response,
Normally along the lines of your stupid, do you not read the bible, you take verses out of context and so on.
This guy has no interest in enagaging but just imposing and if you disagree then you are all of the above.
I agree with you but hey maybe I'm as stupid as you are and don't actually read the bible either.
Normally along the lines of your stupid, do you not read the bible, you take verses out of context and so on.
This guy has no interest in enagaging but just imposing and if you disagree then you are all of the above.
I agree with you but hey maybe I'm as stupid as you are and don't actually read the bible either.
The two became one. The point this happened was at the cross.
Here it is:
Ephesians 2
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, [SUP]15 [/SUP]having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, [SUP]16 [/SUP]and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. [SUP]17 [/SUP]And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off and to those who were near. [SUP]18 [/SUP]For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, [SUP]20 [/SUP]having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone, [SUP]21 [/SUP]in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, [SUP]22 [/SUP]in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.
Here it is:
Ephesians 2
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, [SUP]15 [/SUP]having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, [SUP]16 [/SUP]and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. [SUP]17 [/SUP]And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off and to those who were near. [SUP]18 [/SUP]For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, [SUP]20 [/SUP]having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone, [SUP]21 [/SUP]in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, [SUP]22 [/SUP]in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.
Hebrews was written to JEWISH CHIRSTIANS. NOT Jews considering becoming Christian.
The Whole point of Hebrews is because they were considering going back to Judaism, the Law.
They WERE saved since they were Chrisstian, but were in danger of going back to the sacrificial system.
The reason Hebrews was written was to show that Jesus is superior to the sacrificial system.
They were Jewish CHRISTIANS, not Jews.
The Whole point of Hebrews is because they were considering going back to Judaism, the Law.
They WERE saved since they were Chrisstian, but were in danger of going back to the sacrificial system.
The reason Hebrews was written was to show that Jesus is superior to the sacrificial system.
They were Jewish CHRISTIANS, not Jews.
Originally Posted by valiant
Jesus talked about the self attached branches in John 2.23-25.
Jesus was the true vine, the true Israel. His followers had become branches of the vine. Those that truly believed were the good branches. Those that had only an outward belief like the ones in John 2.23-25 were the self attached branches. The good branches bore fruit. The self attached branches bore no fruit and were removed and burned. Its simple really.
Which proved the fact that some had never lost trust in the Law. They were nominal Christians not saved Christians.
They were not saved Christians. Many were nominal Christians. As always there were true and nominal.
They were a mixture of real Christians who did truly trust in Christ, and nominal Christians who were turning back in fear. The latter were still Jews at heart. They had never been truly saved by Christ,
They were not saved Christians. Many were nominal Christians. As always there were true and nominal.
They were a mixture of real Christians who did truly trust in Christ, and nominal Christians who were turning back in fear. The latter were still Jews at heart. They had never been truly saved by Christ,
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The history of the Church for the past 2,000 years proves that these claims are maliciously false!
Throughout both the Old and the New Testaments we find God’s chosen people sinning against Him and being utterly destroyed by Him as a consequence. For example,
Heb. 10:23. Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful;
24. and let us consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds,
25. not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more as you see the day drawing near.
Christ or Judgment
26. For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
27. but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES.
28. Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
29. How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?
30. For we know Him who said, “VENGEANCE IS MINE, I WILL REPAY.” And again, “THE LORD WILL JUDGE HIS PEOPLE.”
31. It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God. (NASB, 1995)
Preaching the love and grace of Christ is not enough—God’s people need to be warned about the consequence of falling away from the faith.
Not so! Jesus Christ is the foundation (1 Cor. 3:11)—His life, His teachings, and His death; and not just His teachings when they tickle our ears, but also His teachings when they offend. Never once, in any of the three synoptic gospels, do we find Jesus teaching that faith without works (the English words ‘deeds’ and ‘works’ in our English versions are translations of the same Greek word) will save any man from his sins—and if a man is not saved from his sins, he is not saved but still in his sins! Jesus’ half brother James wrote,
James 2:17. Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.
18. But someone may well say, “You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works.”
19. You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.
20. But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?
21. Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar?
22. You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected;
23. and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “AND ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS,” and he was called the friend of God.
24. You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.
Did Paul disagree? No, and he wrote,
Rom. 3:28. For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.
Apart from the good works that Jesus taught in the synoptic gospels are necessary for salvation? No! But apart from the works of the Law.
The Jesus in the Gospel According to John is the same Jesus as in the synoptic gospels, and His teachings in the Gospel According to John must be interpreted in the full context of His teachings.
The warning passages in Hebrews and throughout the rest of the New Testament are not about “stumbling in this life and getting tripped up,” they are about falling away from the faith.
(All Scriptures are from the NASB, 1995)
Throughout both the Old and the New Testaments we find God’s chosen people sinning against Him and being utterly destroyed by Him as a consequence. For example,
Heb. 10:23. Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful;
24. and let us consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds,
25. not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more as you see the day drawing near.
Christ or Judgment
26. For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
27. but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES.
28. Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
29. How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?
30. For we know Him who said, “VENGEANCE IS MINE, I WILL REPAY.” And again, “THE LORD WILL JUDGE HIS PEOPLE.”
31. It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God. (NASB, 1995)
Preaching the love and grace of Christ is not enough—God’s people need to be warned about the consequence of falling away from the faith.
Not so! Jesus Christ is the foundation (1 Cor. 3:11)—His life, His teachings, and His death; and not just His teachings when they tickle our ears, but also His teachings when they offend. Never once, in any of the three synoptic gospels, do we find Jesus teaching that faith without works (the English words ‘deeds’ and ‘works’ in our English versions are translations of the same Greek word) will save any man from his sins—and if a man is not saved from his sins, he is not saved but still in his sins! Jesus’ half brother James wrote,
James 2:17. Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.
18. But someone may well say, “You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works.”
19. You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.
20. But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?
21. Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar?
22. You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected;
23. and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “AND ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS,” and he was called the friend of God.
24. You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.
Did Paul disagree? No, and he wrote,
Rom. 3:28. For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.
Apart from the good works that Jesus taught in the synoptic gospels are necessary for salvation? No! But apart from the works of the Law.
The Jesus in the Gospel According to John is the same Jesus as in the synoptic gospels, and His teachings in the Gospel According to John must be interpreted in the full context of His teachings.
The warning passages in Hebrews and throughout the rest of the New Testament are not about “stumbling in this life and getting tripped up,” they are about falling away from the faith.
(All Scriptures are from the NASB, 1995)
You know who Truly trusts Christ and who doesn't.
I have no words...
Hebrews was written to Jewish Christians.
Do you think it was easy to be a Christian at that time?
They were being persecuted.
Why would a "nominal Christian" even WANT to be known as one??
So he could be persecuted for NOT believing?
I have no words...
Hebrews was written to Jewish Christians.
Do you think it was easy to be a Christian at that time?
They were being persecuted.
Why would a "nominal Christian" even WANT to be known as one??
So he could be persecuted for NOT believing?
I think the truth is Fran when it comes to the book of Hebrews there are so many interpretations concerning the many warnings within this book and comforts that come with it. Warnings being we can lose salvation and comfort we can't.
We have all looked, delved into those warnings and seek the comfort.
As humans we tend to focus on the warnings and look for the comfort to negate what basically is fear.
Its a bit like when you have an illness, so you go to doctor google.
I have issues with my eyes. When they started I went to an optician who said nothing wrong with my eyes that they could see but I was referred to an eye doctor because of high pressure in the eyes.
So the optician tried to reassure me that my eyes were in good health but the high pressure could lead to glaucoma and blindness.
The issues i had and still have is a floating blind spot in both eyes. I am typing this, now as I am tying this I can't see the I "I in the "I am" at the start of my sentence. Yet if I focus on that I within seconds I can see that I and the floating blind spot moves and I can see the I.
So between the referral and seeing the eye doctor when I went to doctor google and I was convinced it was terminal, I had a brain tumour, or I had critical hypertension and so on.
So when I saw the eye doctor and mentioned it he didn't seemed worried about it. I had 4 hours of him examining my eyes and many tests.
I was diagnosed with an eye issue that could lead to blindness but is treatable but the eye issues I am suffering are not as result.
So with regard to the negative I focused on that.
that installs fear.
I don't think Jesus came to install fear, he came to release us from fear.
There is no love in fear.
As for me as a person who has spent most of his life in fear of God, not a healthy fear but a bad fear I have been blinded to his love, a floating blind spot that moves from I can't see your love to one that moves to I can see your love and it repeats itself.
Revelation 3:18
I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see.
Every morning when I wake up and open my eyes I do so in the hope that I can actually see the the world in a physical sense.
But I also say to Jesus give me eye salve that sees you, I say Jesus help me to be like you. Help me to understand how you see me and if I don't get it give me your eye salve that heals my blindness.
We have all looked, delved into those warnings and seek the comfort.
As humans we tend to focus on the warnings and look for the comfort to negate what basically is fear.
Its a bit like when you have an illness, so you go to doctor google.
I have issues with my eyes. When they started I went to an optician who said nothing wrong with my eyes that they could see but I was referred to an eye doctor because of high pressure in the eyes.
So the optician tried to reassure me that my eyes were in good health but the high pressure could lead to glaucoma and blindness.
The issues i had and still have is a floating blind spot in both eyes. I am typing this, now as I am tying this I can't see the I "I in the "I am" at the start of my sentence. Yet if I focus on that I within seconds I can see that I and the floating blind spot moves and I can see the I.
So between the referral and seeing the eye doctor when I went to doctor google and I was convinced it was terminal, I had a brain tumour, or I had critical hypertension and so on.
So when I saw the eye doctor and mentioned it he didn't seemed worried about it. I had 4 hours of him examining my eyes and many tests.
I was diagnosed with an eye issue that could lead to blindness but is treatable but the eye issues I am suffering are not as result.
So with regard to the negative I focused on that.
that installs fear.
I don't think Jesus came to install fear, he came to release us from fear.
There is no love in fear.
As for me as a person who has spent most of his life in fear of God, not a healthy fear but a bad fear I have been blinded to his love, a floating blind spot that moves from I can't see your love to one that moves to I can see your love and it repeats itself.
Revelation 3:18
I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see.
Every morning when I wake up and open my eyes I do so in the hope that I can actually see the the world in a physical sense.
But I also say to Jesus give me eye salve that sees you, I say Jesus help me to be like you. Help me to understand how you see me and if I don't get it give me your eye salve that heals my blindness.
"We have all looked, delved into those warnings and seek the comfort."
Grace + truth= salvation
when we believe the word of God
and were not walking in the faith, those warnoings are meant to keep us safe, to call us back to the comfort
when were walking in the faith, those comforts are there to assure us. its the gospel pattern grace and truth working together. we Know because of Gods word, there is forgiveness. we kNow because of Gods word there are many warnings. we can see them as adams line " condemnation" or as christs line "a call to repentance and salvation" Gods word provides all we need in any circumstance.
Grace + truth= salvation
when we believe the word of God
and were not walking in the faith, those warnoings are meant to keep us safe, to call us back to the comfort
when were walking in the faith, those comforts are there to assure us. its the gospel pattern grace and truth working together. we Know because of Gods word, there is forgiveness. we kNow because of Gods word there are many warnings. we can see them as adams line " condemnation" or as christs line "a call to repentance and salvation" Gods word provides all we need in any circumstance.
I know you believe that a Christian can lose salvation and get kicked out of Christ and thus you "interpret" all warning scriptures in that way.
I believe the scriptures show that to be an anti-Christ belief that has been put into the minds of man by the enemy to put this foul doctrine into the body of Christ. All works-based / works-righteousness believers subscribe to this foul doctrine which explains the need to create and maintain their own righteousness by what they do or don't do.
True biblical belief is of the heart - not in the head or mind. God looks on the heart - man look on the outward appearance.
Getting "saved" is simple but it was not cheap - It cost our Lord His life and blood to redeem us and provide an eternal redemption. Heb. 9:12.
Romans 10:9-10 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
[SUP]10 [/SUP] for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
The process is simple too.
1) we hear the message of Christ - the gospel of our salvation in Him
2) we believe the message from our hearts
3) we were sealed with the Holy Spirit
( Jesus said in John 14:16 that the Holy Spirit will be with us and in us forever - now was Jesus lying or is he like a "bait and switch" car salesman that has "fine print" which He doesn't talk about )
Ephesians 1:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, = 1)
the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, = 2)
you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, = 3)
you were sealed = aorist indicative tense / passive voice = a one time event in the past.
Passive voice = the sealing was not done by us but by an outside force - the Holy Spirit Himself.