Falling away from the Faith (it's possible)
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( Jesus said in John 14:16 that the Holy Spirit will be with us and in us forever - now was Jesus lying or is he like a "bait and switch" car salesman that has "fine print" which He doesn't talk about )
john 14:15-17 "If ye love me, keep my commandments.16And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you."
He also said obey my commandments just before that. thats a promise to those who keep His words, not a conditionless one liner made to argue against His word
Who says not to obey Jesus?
All Christians agree what the true Christian life looks like when Christ is manifesting the fruit of His life in us. The dis-connect comes when people talk about "how is this done".
Works-based belief systems use the Old Covenant mindset to try to effect transformation in Christians. Grace-based belief relies totally on the life and work of Christ in them to transform them by His love and grace towards us.
A very big factor in looking at scripture is the "lens" you use to view the scripture.
In the Old Covenant " you had to do or else"..If you do this..then I God will do that.." = conditional on the person performing
New Covenant = Jesus has done it for you which empowers you to "do"
Let's take a look at a common scripture with these 2 mindsets.
Jesus said.." If you love Me, you will keep My commandments"
Old Covenant mindset = conditional on the person "doing"..
So they would read it this way.."IF you love Me you will keep My commandments"..in their mind it's saying.."Keep My commandment and you will prove you love Me."
New Covenant mindset = it's a description of who you are in Christ.
They would see this "Jesus' love is in me so I keep His commandments"..it stems out of relationship and it is not conditional but descriptive of the believer.
1 John 4:18-19 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] We love, because He first loved us.
Then there is more..lol..there seems to be more sometimes eh?..just what are His commandments anyway?..Be perfect as My Father in heaven is perfect?...can we possibly do that?..of course not..that is Moses 2.0
Ahhh..found His commandments in 1 John 3.
1 John 3:23 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.
...the "lens" that we view scriptures greatly affects us. We try to mix the Old Covenant ( before the cross and resurrection ) with the New Covenant and we get a religious mess.
Religious traditions of men, philosophies of men, ..what we were told all our lives in church or in the world etc. ..all influence how we view scripture. Sometimes some of our "sacred cows" can get sacrificed and it's painful.
Colossians 2:8 (NASB)
[SUP]8[/SUP] See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.
Hebrews 2:1. For this reason we must pay much closer attention to what we have heard, so that we do not drift away from it.
2. For if the word spoken through angels proved unalterable, and every transgression and disobedience received a just penalty,
3. how will we escape if we neglect so great a salvation? After it was at the first spoken through the Lord, it was confirmed to us by those who heard,
4. God also testifying with them, both by signs and wonders and by various miracles and by gifts of the Holy Spirit according to His own will. (NASB, 1995)
This passage is very clear, unless the reader does not know that the author of this epistle was a Christian, and that he is including himself, using the pronoun ‘we’, with the Christians to whom he is writing.
The doctrine of conditional security teaches that God cannot fail, but that we can fail Him—and that if we fail Him badly enough, He will not allow us to contaminate heaven with our filthy presence. If the doctrine of OSAS is true, heaven is a suburb of hell!
2. For if the word spoken through angels proved unalterable, and every transgression and disobedience received a just penalty,
3. how will we escape if we neglect so great a salvation? After it was at the first spoken through the Lord, it was confirmed to us by those who heard,
4. God also testifying with them, both by signs and wonders and by various miracles and by gifts of the Holy Spirit according to His own will. (NASB, 1995)
This passage is very clear, unless the reader does not know that the author of this epistle was a Christian, and that he is including himself, using the pronoun ‘we’, with the Christians to whom he is writing.
The doctrine of conditional security teaches that God cannot fail, but that we can fail Him—and that if we fail Him badly enough, He will not allow us to contaminate heaven with our filthy presence. If the doctrine of OSAS is true, heaven is a suburb of hell!
The reason for law is to help people know what sin is and seek God for help.
Only with God can we obey the law.
The foul lie that is spoken is people who claim to know God and walk in sin with no shame.
Paul was very exact, no hint of impurity or reproach should be seen in the body.
Odd how the people always leave out holiness, must be because ,they are not holy
Only with God can we obey the law.
The foul lie that is spoken is people who claim to know God and walk in sin with no shame.
Paul was very exact, no hint of impurity or reproach should be seen in the body.
Odd how the people always leave out holiness, must be because ,they are not holy
matthew 6:14-15 "For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: 15But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses."
im not sure who says that, i was simply making the point that in all your explaination of things you consistantly remove the conditions made By Jesus Christ such as you did in that comment. in doing so, you are changing the context
your point " Jesus said the holy spirit will be with us always"
Jesus point " keep my commandments, and I will ask the Father and He will send the spirit of truth to be with you forever"
if a person uses that method we can build support for anything such as
" the bible says we are to put adulterers to death...
leviticus 20:10 "And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death."
one verse theology like any book full of words changes what the message is. Jesus said obey me, keep my words, go teach the world the same things i have taught you, teach them to obey those things."
it doesnt say " go teach the world what i some day will teach you" or " go tell them grace grace" whats written is written for a very imprtant reason, so that jim jones, david koresh, joseph smith and some of the modern day pastors, cant deviate and lead a person astray by using things out of context to convince of things to sell to the masses. its true jesus said the holy spirit would be with "us" forever, He makes clear the condition of that as well, and its His offer seems that was relevant
The reason for law is to help people know what sin is and seek God for help.
Only with God can we obey the law.
The foul lie that is spoken is people who claim to know God and walk in sin with no shame.
Paul was very exact, no hint of impurity or reproach should be seen in the body.
Odd how the people always leave out holiness, must be because ,they are not holy
Only with God can we obey the law.
The foul lie that is spoken is people who claim to know God and walk in sin with no shame.
Paul was very exact, no hint of impurity or reproach should be seen in the body.
Odd how the people always leave out holiness, must be because ,they are not holy
its the differnce in a decieved mind, and one who sees Gods word as something meant to keep us safe.
a warning from God is meant to keep the Lives of His children, some see it as oppressive rule keeping and forbidance of something good, like the serpent taught eve.
" surely Gods word isnt true, He doesnt want you to eat the fruit because it will make you like Him"
" Surely Gods word is true, and is meant to keep us safe from Harm its The father telling us the truth in Love"
"the wages of sin is death"
" repentance is life"
" we will all be judged according to Our works"
" we will all be rewarded for our obedience"
satan changed our perception through a lie, Jesus gave the truth so that by faith our minds eye sees the truth, God is for us, not against us.
Obeying Christ and His word for salvation and obtaining eternal life is "believing on Christ and all that He has done on the cross and resurrection is included in that in the New Covenant". The topic was "Is Jesus a liar when He said that the Holy Spirit will be in us forever." I say He isn't.
Jesus also said that He had many things to tell the disciples but they were not able to bear them yet. Paul "explains" the gospel of the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ. We need the revelation of the Holy Spirit to see the things that Christ has done for us.
John 6:37-39 (NASB)
[SUP]37 [/SUP] "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out.
[SUP]38 [/SUP] "For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.
[SUP]39 [/SUP] "This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day.
Jesus also said that He had many things to tell the disciples but they were not able to bear them yet. Paul "explains" the gospel of the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ. We need the revelation of the Holy Spirit to see the things that Christ has done for us.
John 6:37-39 (NASB)
[SUP]37 [/SUP] "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out.
[SUP]38 [/SUP] "For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.
[SUP]39 [/SUP] "This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day.
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Here is your post:
http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...g-away-faith-its-possible-27.html#post3110729
Hopefully this time you will not obfuscate and you will answer how the sheep was never part of the fold.
The man had 100 sheep; one gets lost, leaving 99 (Luke 15:4).
The man goes and retrieves the one and brings it back to the fold.
How was that one sheep not part of the fold to begin with?
http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...g-away-faith-its-possible-27.html#post3110729
Hopefully this time you will not obfuscate and you will answer how the sheep was never part of the fold.
The man had 100 sheep; one gets lost, leaving 99 (Luke 15:4).
The man goes and retrieves the one and brings it back to the fold.
How was that one sheep not part of the fold to begin with?
That is not true. I believe that the Christian’s security is conditional upon his remaining in the Christian faith. Therefore, I am free to interpret each warning passage, based upon the author’s choice of words and his grammar, and based upon other factors such as the immediate and remote context, to determine exactly what the warning is a warning of—that is, the loss of rewards, the loss of a good standing in the Church, or loss of one’s salvation.
On the other hand, Christians who believe that once a person is saved, they will never lose their salvation are in total bondage to interpret every warning passage within the framework of that doctrine—regardless of the author’s choice of words and his grammar, and regardless of other factors such as the immediate and remote context. The catastrophic consequence of this is seen especially clearly in the interpretations of Hebrew 6:4-10 where the actual meaning of the text is so very clear that Christians who believe that once a person is saved, they will never lose their salvation are forced to break the very basic rules of Greek grammar, or radically ignore the author’s choice of words in the context of first century Christian word usage, or violate the very principles of common sense and thus give us several different interpretations—each one of which proves the others to be ridiculous!
I am completely free to be honest with myself and with each individual passage, and to allow the Holy Spirit to use the knowledge that God has blessed me with regarding Greek grammar and lexicography, regarding the relevant cultures involved, and regarding the principles of hermeneutics, that I might come to the correct understanding of each individual passage.
My favorite book in the New Testament is Paul’s Epistle to the Romans, and to aid me in my understanding and teaching of that epistle, God has blessed me with a hard copy of every English language commentary on the Greek text of Romans that has ever been published—and there are many of them, beginning with Thomas Jacomb’s 392-page commentary on Rom 8:1-4 published in 1672 up through Richard N. Longnecker’s 1,207-page commentary on Romans published in 2016 (Calvin’s commentary, although earlier, was on a Latin translation of the text rather than upon the Greek text). These commentaries on the Greek text of Romans contain a wealth of data that is relevant to the correct interpretation of that epistle. Therefore, I do not casually interpret Paul’s Epistle to the Romans—and I do not casually interpret the other 26 writings that make up the New Testament, but rather I utilize over 1,500 other volumes in my study to help insure that I arrive at the most accurate understanding of the New Testament that is possible for me.
On the other hand, Christians who believe that once a person is saved, they will never lose their salvation are in total bondage to interpret every warning passage within the framework of that doctrine—regardless of the author’s choice of words and his grammar, and regardless of other factors such as the immediate and remote context. The catastrophic consequence of this is seen especially clearly in the interpretations of Hebrew 6:4-10 where the actual meaning of the text is so very clear that Christians who believe that once a person is saved, they will never lose their salvation are forced to break the very basic rules of Greek grammar, or radically ignore the author’s choice of words in the context of first century Christian word usage, or violate the very principles of common sense and thus give us several different interpretations—each one of which proves the others to be ridiculous!
I am completely free to be honest with myself and with each individual passage, and to allow the Holy Spirit to use the knowledge that God has blessed me with regarding Greek grammar and lexicography, regarding the relevant cultures involved, and regarding the principles of hermeneutics, that I might come to the correct understanding of each individual passage.
My favorite book in the New Testament is Paul’s Epistle to the Romans, and to aid me in my understanding and teaching of that epistle, God has blessed me with a hard copy of every English language commentary on the Greek text of Romans that has ever been published—and there are many of them, beginning with Thomas Jacomb’s 392-page commentary on Rom 8:1-4 published in 1672 up through Richard N. Longnecker’s 1,207-page commentary on Romans published in 2016 (Calvin’s commentary, although earlier, was on a Latin translation of the text rather than upon the Greek text). These commentaries on the Greek text of Romans contain a wealth of data that is relevant to the correct interpretation of that epistle. Therefore, I do not casually interpret Paul’s Epistle to the Romans—and I do not casually interpret the other 26 writings that make up the New Testament, but rather I utilize over 1,500 other volumes in my study to help insure that I arrive at the most accurate understanding of the New Testament that is possible for me.
We need the revelation of the Holy Spirit to see the things that Christ has done for us.
the gospel of Grace and truth came through Jesus and His word, along with His death and resurrection.
How does Jesus say plainly we receive the holy ghost?
john 14:15-17 "If ye love me, keep my commandments.16And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you."
simple, cant receive it while omitting the word of Jesus. nor can a person receive it while denying the crucifixion and resurrection and ascention of Jesus to the right Hand of God.
again what did the serpent do to eve? He told her partial truth, ( it did let them know Good and evil and make them like God in that regard) yet omitted the Word of God, convincing Her it wasnt true, and omitting " you will surely die" << Gods word
grace is of no effect if it rewuires ommitance of Jesus Words, all of them. its the Gospel. try finding Grace in the 4 gospels, and accept everything Jesus was teaching, Grace + truth. or "the grace that teaches us to walk by means of the truth titus 2:11-15,
you say paul was teaching the gospel of the grace of christ, why then does He expressly say " anyone who does not consent to sound doctrine, even the words of Our Lord Jesus Christ...is foolish and knows nothing ect? simple because paul taught the same Gospel as Jesus, he calls it grace because " Grace and truth came through Jesus"
the finished work of the cross, is Jesus suffering and dying for sin, the finished work of Gods Word that was given By Jesus Christ....is Jesus walking out of the tomb.
Who is omitting the words of Jesus?
We must rightly divide all scripture including the words of Jesus. If we don't take into context who Jesus is speaking to at the time and what was His purpose - we will go astray.
For example - there are Christians that still think we need to do the law of Moses including the keeping of the Sabbath Jewish day on Friday night to Saturday and the festivals or we are sinning and not obeying Jesus. - because Jesus said "I came not to do away with the law but to fulfill it."
Jesus said to go show yourself to a priest when a guy was healed. Do we do that today? No, of course not.
Jesus said to the rich ruler "to do the commandments in the law of Moses" when the ruler asked what must "he do" to inherit eternal life. Is that what we do today?
No of course not. Jesus gave him the law of Moses to expose the truth that he didn't really keep it because he had broken the very first one.
When someone asks "What must "I do" to be saved. - we give them Paul's answer ( Jesus himself said the same thing about believing in Him many times in His earthly ministry too - this is "obeying the words of Jesus" in context of the New Covenant )
Acts 16:30-31 (NASB)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] and after he brought them out, he said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"
[SUP]31 [/SUP] They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."
So we must interpret the words of Jesus in light of the finished work of Christ or else we will end up in a mess that mixes up the Old Covenant with the New Covenant and create a works-based religion that actually denies the gospel of the grace of God in Christ from operating in our lives like it was meant to.
We must rightly divide all scripture including the words of Jesus. If we don't take into context who Jesus is speaking to at the time and what was His purpose - we will go astray.
For example - there are Christians that still think we need to do the law of Moses including the keeping of the Sabbath Jewish day on Friday night to Saturday and the festivals or we are sinning and not obeying Jesus. - because Jesus said "I came not to do away with the law but to fulfill it."
Jesus said to go show yourself to a priest when a guy was healed. Do we do that today? No, of course not.
Jesus said to the rich ruler "to do the commandments in the law of Moses" when the ruler asked what must "he do" to inherit eternal life. Is that what we do today?
No of course not. Jesus gave him the law of Moses to expose the truth that he didn't really keep it because he had broken the very first one.
When someone asks "What must "I do" to be saved. - we give them Paul's answer ( Jesus himself said the same thing about believing in Him many times in His earthly ministry too - this is "obeying the words of Jesus" in context of the New Covenant )
Acts 16:30-31 (NASB)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] and after he brought them out, he said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"
[SUP]31 [/SUP] They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."
So we must interpret the words of Jesus in light of the finished work of Christ or else we will end up in a mess that mixes up the Old Covenant with the New Covenant and create a works-based religion that actually denies the gospel of the grace of God in Christ from operating in our lives like it was meant to.
Jesus said "I have many things to tell you but you cannot bear them now. But the Holy Spirit when He comes - He will teach you all things and reveal the things of Me and show them unto you."
Meaning - Jesus had many other things to tell us but the disciples couldn't understand them yet - Jesus has used Paul to show what these things are by the Holy Spirit. You do not get these in the 4 gospels. The words spoken to Paul are from Jesus' words and are just as valid.
The proclamation of Christ produces the profession of Christ, but the explanation of Christ is what produces the experience of Christ.
Believers can never fully enjoy the triumph of the gospel and express Christ in this world victoriously until there has been an explanation and exposition of the vivid details of the redemptive work of Christ that has gained a foothold in our renewed minds.
The 4 gospels were eyewitness accounts of the historical events in the life and ministry of our Lord Jesus Christ. Christianity is based on the veracity of these events as having occurred in real time, in all historicity and specificity.
Nevertheless it is the unveiling of the spiritual realities of these events that relates to the believer in Christ. This is found in the revelation that the Lord Jesus Christ gave to the apostle Paul.
The 4 gospels are the proclamation of the gospel. They disclose to us what men saw. Acts of the apostles is the demonstration of the gospel, but it is Paul's letters which give us an explanation of the gospel. It is the Pauline Epistles that are the constitution of this church age.
Paul's epistles explain what happened from the cross, death, burial, quickening and resurrection to the being seated at the right hand of the Father. Without these epistles we would have no idea what Jesus our Lord actually accomplished for us.
Paul was taught by Jesus Christ Himself to explain His gospel = to reveal the mystery that was hidden in God until it was revealed by Christ to Paul. The mystery being Christ Himself and the riches of that glory is that Christ is in us and we are in union with Him as one spirit!
These "explanations" of the mystery of the gospel that Christ is in us - cannot be found openly in the 4 gospels themselves. We need to marry the things Paul said with the words of Jesus in the 4 gospels.
It is in Paul's explanation of the gospel that Christ is in us - the hope of glory where we find the nutrients to walk by the spirit.
Meaning - Jesus had many other things to tell us but the disciples couldn't understand them yet - Jesus has used Paul to show what these things are by the Holy Spirit. You do not get these in the 4 gospels. The words spoken to Paul are from Jesus' words and are just as valid.
The proclamation of Christ produces the profession of Christ, but the explanation of Christ is what produces the experience of Christ.
Believers can never fully enjoy the triumph of the gospel and express Christ in this world victoriously until there has been an explanation and exposition of the vivid details of the redemptive work of Christ that has gained a foothold in our renewed minds.
The 4 gospels were eyewitness accounts of the historical events in the life and ministry of our Lord Jesus Christ. Christianity is based on the veracity of these events as having occurred in real time, in all historicity and specificity.
Nevertheless it is the unveiling of the spiritual realities of these events that relates to the believer in Christ. This is found in the revelation that the Lord Jesus Christ gave to the apostle Paul.
The 4 gospels are the proclamation of the gospel. They disclose to us what men saw. Acts of the apostles is the demonstration of the gospel, but it is Paul's letters which give us an explanation of the gospel. It is the Pauline Epistles that are the constitution of this church age.
Paul's epistles explain what happened from the cross, death, burial, quickening and resurrection to the being seated at the right hand of the Father. Without these epistles we would have no idea what Jesus our Lord actually accomplished for us.
Paul was taught by Jesus Christ Himself to explain His gospel = to reveal the mystery that was hidden in God until it was revealed by Christ to Paul. The mystery being Christ Himself and the riches of that glory is that Christ is in us and we are in union with Him as one spirit!
These "explanations" of the mystery of the gospel that Christ is in us - cannot be found openly in the 4 gospels themselves. We need to marry the things Paul said with the words of Jesus in the 4 gospels.
It is in Paul's explanation of the gospel that Christ is in us - the hope of glory where we find the nutrients to walk by the spirit.
I am glad that you enjoy research, including the Greek grammar and lexicography, the relevant cultures involved, and the principles of hermeneutics, so that you might come to the correct understanding of each individual passage.
Have you had an opportunity to look up the arrabōn? I’d be interested in your findings.
Arrabōn is used 3 times in Scripture:
2 Corinthians 1:21-22 Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God; Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest (arrabōn) of the Spirit in our hearts.
2 Corinthians 5:5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest (arrabōn) of the Spirit.
Ephesians 1:23-14 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest (arrabōn) of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
My understanding of the arrabōn is that it is a down payment, a portion of our inheritance, and once the purchased possession has been fully redeemed (still future), the full inheritance (more of the same) will be received.
Putting aside the fact that you and I are not in agreement concerning whether or not a born again believer can lose his/her salvation, can you answer concerning what is the arrabōn?
I ask in all sincerity and I believe any time you spend in looking into the arrabōn will be a blessing to your soul.
Have you had an opportunity to look up the arrabōn? I’d be interested in your findings.
Arrabōn is used 3 times in Scripture:
2 Corinthians 1:21-22 Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God; Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest (arrabōn) of the Spirit in our hearts.
2 Corinthians 5:5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest (arrabōn) of the Spirit.
Ephesians 1:23-14 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest (arrabōn) of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
My understanding of the arrabōn is that it is a down payment, a portion of our inheritance, and once the purchased possession has been fully redeemed (still future), the full inheritance (more of the same) will be received.
Putting aside the fact that you and I are not in agreement concerning whether or not a born again believer can lose his/her salvation, can you answer concerning what is the arrabōn?
I ask in all sincerity and I believe any time you spend in looking into the arrabōn will be a blessing to your soul.
Hi Bill,
You don't know what legalism is?
It's what Mailmandan and Grace777 fight so much against.
Go figure. I happen to agree with them.
Here's Valiant's last post to which I was referring, but many of his posts are like this:
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
Which proved the fact that some had never lost trust in the Law. They were nominal Christians not saved Christians.
They were not saved Christians. Many were nominal Christians. As always there were true and nominal.
They were a mixture of real Christians who did truly trust in Christ, and nominal Christians who were turning back in fear. The latter were still Jews at heart. They had never been truly saved by Christ,
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
So a legalist knows, all by himself, who is saved and who isn't.
He makes up his own rules as to who is saved.
For instance some will say that if a person didn't go to an altar to receive they have not really proclaimed with their mouth and so are not REALLY SAVED.
Other stuff like this. Maybe they don't worship on the right day, whatever.
GOD IS A BIG GOD. it's not up to US to decde who is saved and how that salvation comes.
It's up to God.
If someone here on these threads believes himself to be a christian, it's not up to anyone of us to declare that he is not.
I'm not saying Valiant necessarily does this, I can't remember all his comments.
Legalism is when we put the Law before God.
Many do this and don't even know it.
Some may call it Phariseeism.
Anyway, that's what I meant.
You don't know what legalism is?
It's what Mailmandan and Grace777 fight so much against.
Go figure. I happen to agree with them.
Here's Valiant's last post to which I was referring, but many of his posts are like this:
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
Which proved the fact that some had never lost trust in the Law. They were nominal Christians not saved Christians.
They were not saved Christians. Many were nominal Christians. As always there were true and nominal.
They were a mixture of real Christians who did truly trust in Christ, and nominal Christians who were turning back in fear. The latter were still Jews at heart. They had never been truly saved by Christ,
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
So a legalist knows, all by himself, who is saved and who isn't.
He makes up his own rules as to who is saved.
For instance some will say that if a person didn't go to an altar to receive they have not really proclaimed with their mouth and so are not REALLY SAVED.
Other stuff like this. Maybe they don't worship on the right day, whatever.
GOD IS A BIG GOD. it's not up to US to decde who is saved and how that salvation comes.
It's up to God.
If someone here on these threads believes himself to be a christian, it's not up to anyone of us to declare that he is not.
I'm not saying Valiant necessarily does this, I can't remember all his comments.
Legalism is when we put the Law before God.
Many do this and don't even know it.
Some may call it Phariseeism.
Anyway, that's what I meant.