Falling away from the Faith (it's possible)

[valiant]

Nice try. But the scriptures are clear. They ESCAPED. Not an illusion of escape. They really did escape.

Yes, they escaped the corruption that is in the world by lust. In other words they became clean living. I have seen many nominal Christians who have done exactly that. But they went back to wallowing in the mire eventually. Their heart had never been right. It was all external.

But they allowed false teachers to once again speak into their lives, and they were led astray. Away from the faith. Allowed for the lusts of the flesh - as the passage indicates (verse 18)

And why? Because they had never been saved by God. They had tried to save themselves.

 

[Chris1975]

Yes, they escaped the corruption that is in the world by lust. In other words they became clean living. I have seen many nominal Christians who have done exactly that. But they went back to wallowing in the mire eventually. Their heart had never been right. It was all external.




And why? Because they had never been saved by God. They had tried to save themselves.

You making all of this up?

 

[valiant]

Maybe the osaseers should get together and agree first before replying. Save this going forward for the screen dumps.

so that's what you do? You don't exegete honestly, you agree together on a passage. It figures.

 

[Rockrz]

Because they had never been saved by God

Not according to Jesus..

Mark 4:13-20
And he said unto them, Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables?
The sower soweth the word.
And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.
And these are they likewise which are sown on stony ground; who, when they have heard the word, immediately receive it with gladness; (this guy received God's promises)
And have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended.
And these are they which are sown among thorns; such as hear the word,
And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things ENTERING IN, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.
And these are they which are sown on good ground; such as hear the word, and receive it, and bring forth fruit, some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some an hundred.


God's Word tells us that the Kingdom of God works on seedtime and harvest... satan's game is to choke the Word which is another way of saying he is always trying to talk us out of believing God's promises just like he tried to do to Jesus.

Seedtime and Harvest

Scriptures that speak of sowing and reaping - Genesis 8:22, Mark 4:26, Matthew 13:24, Galatians 6:7-8, Romans 5:14-21, Isaiah 3:10-11, Romans 2:7, Matthew 3:10, Matthew 7:17-20, Hebrews 6:8, Matthew 7:19, John 15:1-15, Galatians 6:7,8 demonstrates how seedtime harvest causes things to produce after it's own kind whether it's good producing good, or evil producing evil.


Genesis 8:22
While the earth remains, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease.

Mark 4:26
So is the kingdom of God, as if a man should cast seed into the ground

Matthew 13:24
The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.

Galatians 6:7,8
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man sows, that shall he also reap.
For he that sows to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that sows to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

Romans 5:14-21 demonstrates how seedtime harvest causes things to produce after it's own kind whether it's good producing good, or evil producing evil.

Romans 5:14-21
Nevertheless death reigned from Adam (God says Adam died) to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
But not as the offense, so also is the free gift. For if through the offense of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offenses unto justification.
For if by one man's offense death reigned by one (talkin 'bout Adam); much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
Therefore as by the offense of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Moreover the law entered, that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Isaiah 3:10-11
Say ye to the righteous, that it shall be well with him: for they shall eat the fruit of their doings.
Woe unto the wicked! it shall be ill with him: for the reward of his hands shall be given him

Companion scripture for Isaiah 3:10-11 found in the New Testament:


Romans 2:7
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life:
But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth (God’s Word), but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that does evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
But glory, honor, and peace, to every man that works good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
For there is no respect of persons with God.


Matthew 3:10
And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which brings not forth good fruit is cut down, and cast into the fire.

Matthew 7:17-20
Even so every good tree brings forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree brings forth evil fruit.
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Every tree that brings not forth good fruit is cut down, and cast into the fire.
Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Hebrews 6:8
But that which bears thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

Matthew 7:19
Every tree that brings not forth good fruit is cut down, and cast into the fire.

John 15:1-15

I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
Every branch in me that bears not fruit he takes away: and every branch that bears fruit, he purges it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abides in me, and I in him, the same brings forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.
If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.
This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knows not what his lord does: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.

Galatians 6:7,8
For he that sows to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that sows to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man sows, that shall he also reap.

 

[valiant]

Originally Posted by valiant

Yes, they escaped the corruption that is in the world by lust. In other words they became clean living. I have seen many nominal Christians who have done exactly that. But they went back to wallowing in the mire eventually. Their heart had never been right. It was all external.

And why? Because they had never been saved by God. They had tried to save themselves.

You making all of this up?

no, but you seem to be, and you add to scripture to try to make it say what you say.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

"Moral reformation" is a term used to describe someone who cleans themselves up (on the outside) but there is no regeneration on this inside. We see this all the time with people who are "religious, but not right with God." That is not impossible according to the Bible.

IE Pharisees..Clean on the outside, Filthy on the inside.

 

[valiant]

Because they had never been saved by God

Not according to Jesus..

Mark 4:13-20
And he said unto them, Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables?
The sower soweth the word.
And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.
And these are they likewise which are sown on stony ground; who, when they have heard the word, immediately receive it with gladness; (this guy received God's promises)
And have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended.

No they receive the word sown, not God's promises. But THEY HAVE NO ROOT IN THEMSELVES. That is why they fail.

And these are they which are sown among thorns; such as hear the word,

And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things ENTERING IN, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.

Yes they enter in and the word is choked making sure that it does not bring forth fruit, it becomes unfruitful. It is that kind of land,

And these are they which are sown on good ground; such as hear the word, and receive it, and bring forth fruit, some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some an hundred.

see they are sown on GOOD GROUND. They alone are the ground that produces genuine fruit i.e. represent believers.

God's Word tells us that the Kingdom of God works on seedtime and harvest... satan's game is to choke the Word which is another way of saying he is always trying to talk us out of believing God's promises just like he tried to do to Jesus.

And he succeeds on three out of four grounds.

Seedtime and Harvest

Scriptures that speak of sowing and reaping - Genesis 8:22, Mark 4:26, Matthew 13:24, Galatians 6:7-8, Romans 5:14-21, Isaiah 3:10-11, Romans 2:7, Matthew 3:10, Matthew 7:17-20, Hebrews 6:8, Matthew 7:19, John 15:1-15, Galatians 6:7,8 demonstrates how seedtime harvest causes things to produce after it's own kind whether it's good producing good, or evil producing evil.

yes after their own Kind, good land never produces bad fruit, bad land never produces good fruit.

Mark 4:26 So is the kingdom of God, as if a man should cast seed into the ground

which produces only good fruit.

Matthew 13:24

The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.

He sows GOOD SEED, the enemy sows bad seed.

Galatians 6:7,8
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man sows, that shall he also reap.
For he that sows to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that sows to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

well? every man sows what he wants. The Christian sows to the Spirit and reaps eternal life.

Romans 5:14-21 demonstrates how seedtime harvest causes things to produce after it's own kind whether it's good producing good, or evil producing evil.

Believers produce good, unbelievers produce evil.

Romans 5:14-21
Nevertheless death reigned from Adam (God says Adam died) to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

all sinned, all died.

But not as the offense, so also is the free gift. For if through the offense of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offenses unto justification.
For if by one man's offense death reigned by one (talkin 'bout Adam); much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
Therefore as by the offense of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Moreover the law entered, that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

The free gift came to those who God saved, believers. the rest were condemned, unbelievers..

Isaiah 3:10-11
Say ye to the righteous, that it shall be well with him: for they shall eat the fruit of their doings.
Woe unto the wicked! it shall be ill with him: for the reward of his hands shall be given him

The righteous are believers. The wicked are unbeliever. You miss the whole point.

 

[Rockrz]

they receive the word sown, not God's promises

God's Word CONTAINS His promises... Mark 4:13-20 applies to any and all of God's promises and demonstrates exactly how the devil chokes the Word out of someone's life so they no longer bare fruit even if they once did.

And he succeeds on three out of four grounds.

And... we decide what kind of ground we are going to be.

We will allow satan to sow tares into our lives that causes us to turn away from the Lord as our first love???

Matthew 13:24
The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.

yes after their own Kind, good land never produces bad fruit, bad land never produces good fruit.

Matthew 13:24
The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.

We decide what is allowed to grow in our lives and what isn't.

The Christian sows to the Spirit and reaps eternal life.

And... sometimes Christians backslide after getting born again and some people claim they were never saved in the first place which is a lie

They did get saved, satan played them and deceived them in to walking after the flesh getting them back in to living a sinful lifestyle.

Now they must confess and forsake their sin and return to their first love.

Some probably think they've never sinned after getting saved but others have and they need to be taught what to do after falling away so we can win them back.

 

[mailmandan]

God's Word CONTAINS His promises... Mark 4:13-20 applies to any and all of God's promises and demonstrates exactly how the devil chokes the Word out of someone's life so they no longer bare fruit even if they once did.

And... we decide what kind of ground we are going to be.

We will allow satan to sow tares into our lives that causes us to turn away from the Lord as our first love???

Matthew 13:24
The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.

Matthew 13:24
The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.

We decide what is allowed to grow in our lives and what isn't.

And... sometimes Christians backslide after getting born again and some people claim they were never saved in the first place which is a lie

They did get saved, satan played them and deceived them in to walking after the flesh getting them back in to living a sinful lifestyle.

Now they must confess and forsake their sin and return to their first love.

Some probably think they've never sinned after getting saved but others have and they need to be taught what to do after falling away so we can win them back.

Luke 8:13 - But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. The shallow ground hearer is contrasted with that of the "good ground" hearer, who's heart was "good" and "honest." Thus, his heart was "not good," being like the soil to which it corresponds, being "shallow" or "rocky," lacking sufficient depth. People who hear and receive the word with joy (emotional response) and believe (in a shallow way) without a good and honest heart, and having "no root" do not experience real salvation. But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root.." Problem from the start. Temporary shallow belief that was not firmly rooted or established from the start "has no root" represents rocky soil. Then we see the results of this. Temporary shallow belief that has no root, lacks moisture, produces no fruit and withers away is not saving belief.

John has portrayed people as "believing" who are clearly not saved. There is a stage in the progress of belief in Jesus that "falls short of genuine or consummated belief resulting in salvation." See John 2:23-25 (where their "belief" is clearly superficial in nature); John 8:31-59 (where the Jews who were said to have "believed in him" turn out to be slaves to sin [v. 34], indifferent to Jesus’ word [v. 37], children of the devil [v. 44], liars [v. 55], and guilty of setting out to stone the one they have professed to believe in (v. 59). After Jesus’ teaching we read in 6:60 that "many of his disciples . . . said," ‘This is a difficult statement; who can listen to it?’ These are the very so called "disciples" who Jesus says "do not believe" (John 6:64). They also walked with Him no more. They did not continue. If we continue in His word, then we demonstrate that we are TRULY His disciples (John 8:31). Those who fail to continue in His word demonstrate that they are NOT TRULY His disciples.

In regards to the thorny soil, the word was choked out before reaching it's desired goal, making it [unfruitful]. The word is choked and therefore does not produce a renewed spiritual life in the person; "the anxieties of the age and the pleasures of wealth chokes the message. The worries of life and the delusions of wealth have the effect of stifling the word/gospel, such that the person does not bear the fruit of salvation. Neither the stony ground hearer or the thorny ground hearer was fruitful. Put a stop to the growth of the word and it gives no fruit (Bible in Basic English). The potential to eventually become established and produce fruit was there, but the word was choked out before reaching it's desired goal. It (the seed, the word) became unfruitful (produces nothing, proves unfruitful, does not produce fruit, yields nothing), because the growth of the word was choked. In the Complete Jewish Bible we read, Now the seed sown among thorns stands for someone who hears the message, but it is choked by the worries of the world and the deceitful glamor of wealth, so that it produces nothing. *Nothing amounts to nothing and nothing was mentioned about it ever producing something. *In both cases, faith without works is dead.

In CONTRAST, we read in Matthew 13:23 - "And the one on whom seed was sown on the good soil, this is the man who hears the word and understands it; who INDEED BEARS FRUIT and brings forth, some a hundredfold, some sixty, and some thirty." *Only the 4th soil produced crops of any size.* I suppose the question still remains, "can this forth soil eventually become fruitless?" I have to conclude that if this were possible, why didn't Christ include such a scenario before concluding? There is mention of a difference in the size of the crops, but no consequences or warnings are given to the lesser producers. Only the 4th soil was referred to as "good ground" and produced a crop (fruit) and there is NO MENTION OF CHOKING OR WITHERING THEREAFTER.

 

[Rockrz]

There's no such thing as once saved always saved... you obviously have issues with believing Jesus knows what He is talking about... both direct quotes from Him as well as what He said thru the Apostles writings.
I'd repent if I were you... but then again, I ain't you so I'm not liable for you

 

[Rockrz]

So, when you sin we can put you down as having "temporary shallow belief that has no root, lacks moisture, produces no fruit and withers away is not saving belief"... which means you haven't gotten saved yet... according to your reasoning???

You are not going to tell us that you never sin and have achieved perfection while still here on Club Earth, are ya?

If not, then how do you still claim to be a Christian seeing you sin every now and again?

Obviously when one sins they are not being led by the Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ having chosen to not abide in His Word... how do you still claim to be a Christian???

 

[mailmandan]

So, when you sin we can put you down as having "temporary shallow belief that has no root, lacks moisture, produces no fruit and withers away is not saving belief"... which means you haven't gotten saved yet... according to your reasoning???

You are not going to tell us that you never sin and have achieved perfection while still here on Club Earth, are ya?

If not, then how do you still claim to be a Christian seeing you sin every now and again?

Obviously when one sins they are not being led by the Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ having chosen to not abide in His Word... how do you still claim to be a Christian???

As usual, you don't know what you're talking about and everything that I shared with you in post #69 just went right over your head.

 

[Rockrz]

you don't know what you're talking about

I know exactly what Jesus is talking about and you rejected His simple teaching.

Your old carnal mind just cannot grasp what Jesus is talking about... hang in there man... maybe someday you'll get some revelation going but you're gonna have to take God at His word there bud.

It's so easy little children can do it, so we know there's hope for you!

 

[mailmandan]

I know exactly what Jesus is talking about and you rejected His simple teaching.

Your old carnal mind just cannot grasp what Jesus is talking about... hang in there man... maybe someday you'll get some revelation going but you're gonna have to take God at His word there bud.

It's so easy little children can do it, so we know there's hope for you!

That statement is the epitome of irony.

 

[Grace777x70]

Here is a scripture that if we take God at His word - we will all be in trouble.

The bible is the most beautiful book in the world and at the same time - the most dangerous book in the hands of a religious belief system in all it's forms.

Here is a scripture that says that if anyone who has ever sinned against God will be blotted out of the book. This means that all of us have been blotted out of God's book for who has not ever sinned? No one.

Exodus 32:33 (NASB)
[SUP]33 [/SUP] The LORD said to Moses, "Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book.


This is a true statement but it is not the ultimate statement of truth because what Christ did on the cross and resurrection trumps this truth.

Everything in the bible is truly stated but not everything is a statement of ultimate truth.

All scripture must be filtered through the finished work of the Lord Jesus on the cross and resurrection or we end up with a works-based/works-righteousness belief system that is actually denying the Lord Jesus Himself and all that He has already done.

We are as reliant on the Holy Spirit to reveal Christ in the scriptures to us as Mary was reliant on the Holy Spirit to conceive Jesus in her womb.

 

[Chris1975]

Here is a scripture that if we take God at His word - we will all be in trouble.

The bible is the most beautiful book in the world and at the same time - the most dangerous book in the hands of a religious belief system in all it's forms.

Here is a scripture that says that if anyone who has ever sinned against God will be blotted out of the book. This means that all of us have been blotted out of God's book for who has not ever sinned? No one.

Exodus 32:33 (NASB)
[SUP]33 [/SUP] The LORD said to Moses, "Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book.


This is a true statement but it is not the ultimate statement of truth because what Christ did on the cross and resurrection trumps this truth.

Everything in the bible is truly stated but not everything is a statement of ultimate truth.

All scripture must be filtered through the finished work of the Lord Jesus on the cross and resurrection or we end up with a works-based/works-righteousness belief system that is actually denying the Lord Jesus Himself and all that He has already done.

We are as reliant on the Holy Spirit to reveal Christ in the scriptures to us as Mary was reliant on the Holy Spirit to conceive Jesus in her womb.

Exodus 32v33 - is true and is also ultimately true as well. For it refers to those specific people who sinned against Him in the desert. See verse 30, 31, 32 and 34.

Here it is:

[SUP]30 [/SUP]Now it came to pass on the next day that Moses said to the people, “You have committed a great sin. So now I will go up to the Lord; perhaps I can make atonement for your sin.” [SUP]31 [/SUP]Then Moses returned to the Lord and said, “Oh, these people have committed a great sin, and have made for themselves a god of gold! [SUP]32 [/SUP]Yet now, if You will forgive their sin—but if not, I pray, blot me out of Your book which You have written.”

[SUP]33 [/SUP]And the Lord said to Moses, “Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book. <clearly the people who made the god of gold> [SUP]34 [/SUP]Now therefore, go, lead the people to the place of which I have spoken to you. Behold, My Angel shall go before you. Nevertheless, in the day when I visit for punishment, I will visit punishment upon them for their sin.”


The above remains true and is also ultimately true.

I don't know why you keep using this verse. Nothing in the NT covenant, or Jesus Christ's work overrides this statement he made in Exodus 32v33.

 

[Grace777x70]

Obviously you missed the whole point of the post.

One thing to keep in mind is that it is possible to post a "string" of scriptures that are all taken out of context from both the OT and the NT to "prove" a teaching.

I like to use Exodus 32:33 as an example. Let's say I have this "theory" that we must be sinless all of our lives to get to heaven.

I start with the below scripture from Moses and from the start it's not looking good for us......

Exodus 32:33 (NASB)
[SUP]33 [/SUP] The LORD said to Moses, "Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book.

I then can go on to post scriptures from Moses to David to Jesus all about sin and what it does. Then I end up with the book of Revelation 21:8 where it says that all immoral people will be thrown in the lake of fire.

All of these scriptures are true but none of them take into consideration the finished work of Christ and how that Jesus' blood has redeemed sinners.

Jesus' truths trump all those scriptures that were "strung" together to prove my above theory in the first place.

The finished work of Christ is what all other scriptures need to be interpreted through before IMO they can be legitimately used to support a teaching.

Such as Jesus kicks us out of Himself as some try to push on believers. Jesus said that the Holy Spirit will be with us and in us forever. Jesus said that "none that come to me will I lose. Jesus said "no one can pluck them out of My hands nor the Father's hands."

Jesus said " I will never leave nor forsake you".

We all need to answer this one question. Is Jesus a liar? Can we trust Him?

I say Yes!

 

[samuel23]

I think the point is being passed over that in this life God has given us a free will, that is why from cover to cover the bible is full of warnings for us to remain in the faith. Why would God continually warn those in the faith to remain in the faith if it was not even possible for them to get out of the faith? That would be like locking up a child in his room all day, and at the same time warning him not to play in the street. First of all, we have a free will, so in the same way we accepted Christ, we could reject Him. Second, to assume that all humans are of such noble character that not a single person who accepted Christ as Savior would later reject him, is giving way to much confidence to human nature. Probably all of us here could write a list of those who have accepted Christ and fallen away and never looked back. I am sure that some of those people were never really saved, however to make the blanket statement that all of then were never saved is quite a stretch. I know of one particular story of a woman who was saved and produced fruit for years until she met a man that turned her heart from Christ and she chose the man and rejected Christ and became a Muslim. That woman was saved and that woman was lost, and from what I read in the bible she cannot come back, actually she would not want to because the Spirit would no longer deal with her.

 

[PeterJens]

Simple rule if you can get something you can also loose it.

If you become something you can only die, because it is part of you.

Becoming something takes time. When is a child an adult?
The pictures of us vary and only at the end do we really know.

You will not mistake those like Christ, so that is our aim in the Spirit.
And to those elect they can only share and press on. We are never going
to regret those who could do nothing, only those who may have been,
and then we see it is only in the Lords hands.

So what I see is a massive excuse to distort everything, for the failed,
while denying the chosen, which equates to apostacy.

In Christ God holds his own because they love Him.
If one can never lose the faith, then you do not have it to lose.

In relationships some invent something because that is better than zip,
but of course you cannot lose this, because it has no substance.
If I create my own faith, I will be happy because I make the rules.

Ask anyone whose rules do you follow? If it is up to you, you know what this is!!!!

Jesus asks us to follow the Spirit and the law of Christ.

 

[Grace777x70]

Either we believe the gospel of the grace of Christ or we try to establish our own self-righteousness and works-righteousness which is by the same principles as the Jews did that thought they could live by the law of Moses and find life.

It is the elementary principles of this world's belief system. We live by the life of Christ now and it's His fruit that bears in our life.

We are not a new evolution - that is a works-based humanistic worldly belief system that comes from the world's belief system. We are a new creation and it is all by "God's doing".

Get this wrong and we create a religion that is actually exchanging Christ for our own efforts and thus denying Christ and it nullified the grace of God from operating in our lives like it was meant to do.