For then shall be great tribulation

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
T

Therapon

Guest
yes, and also what was interesting is that no-one at the time questioned what was meant by the "last trumpet" simply because they were already familiar with the three trumpet blasts......
Many have tried to relate the Last Trumpet of 1 Cor 11:51-52 to the Levitical trumpets while totally ignoring the seven trumpets in Revelation. Poor hermaneutics indeed, you don't go to the Old Testament for the definition of a New Testament figure if there is a New Testament example that fits perfectly.
 
G

Graybeard

Guest
Many have tried to relate the Last Trumpet of 1 Cor 11:51-52 to the Levitical trumpets while totally ignoring the seven trumpets in Revelation. Poor hermaneutics indeed, you don't go to the Old Testament for the definition of a New Testament figure if there is a New Testament example that fits perfectly.
But the people Paul was writing to did not have the book of Revelation so how would they know what Paul was talking about?...besides even you should know that The Bible teaches that in order to know the end you have to go to the beginning.
 
T

Therapon

Guest
But the people Paul was writing to did not have the book of Revelation so how would they know what Paul was talking about?...besides even you should know that The Bible teaches that in order to know the end you have to go to the beginning.
Brother, the believers in Paul's time didn't need to know, but we do. God inspired both books so He was certainly aware that Revelation would be written and what its contents would be.
 
G

Graybeard

Guest
Brother, the believers in Paul's time didn't need to know, but we do. God inspired both books so He was certainly aware that Revelation would be written and what its contents would be.
that's absurd....then Paul would not have addressed them specifically....they knew exactly what he was talking about.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
Many have tried to relate the Last Trumpet of 1 Cor 11:51-52 to the Levitical trumpets while totally ignoring the seven trumpets in Revelation. Poor hermaneutics indeed, you don't go to the Old Testament for the definition of a New Testament figure if there is a New Testament example that fits perfectly.
yet you insist we get into 'Daniel's Levitical' sandals.

to understand something (Daniel 9) all the Gospels speak of in detail, and history itself bears witness to.

Christ came, He Finished the Work He was sent to do: bring salvation to Israel.

the NEW Skins recieved the NEW Wine.

the Old Hard Ones wrote the Talmud down.

and you want the church to call the Pharisees One of TWO Witnesses?








John 12:48

"He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day.


Therapon 12:48
"He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has no one who judges him; the word I spoke is not what will judge him at the last day. My words don't matter, and neither does My Name. I preserve those who reject Me, since they're so Old and Hardened, if I tell them the Truth, they'll explode. So they're good to go.
 
Last edited:

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
Brother, the believers in Paul's time didn't need to know, but we do. God inspired both books so He was certainly aware that Revelation would be written and what its contents would be.
so, inspired, authoritative elected jews (apostles etc) who PENNED the New Testament didn't need to know stuff.

they compiled the NT, by the Holy Spirit, and nobody but you and one other guy got the New Revelation "DOCTRINAL UPDATE" you called it - revealing all new doctrine, and even new SOTERIOLOGY.

new...with you. through you....uh huh. sure.



interesting seeing who agrees with you also....lots of online stuff.
can two walk together except they be agreed?
 
T

Therapon

Guest
that's absurd....then Paul would not have addressed them specifically....they knew exactly what he was talking about.
The Corinthians didn't need to know that Revelation would be written in their future and that there would be seven prophetic trumpets in it. You obviously don't see the unity of Scripture like I do, but I'm not going to debate it. Go in peace.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Feb 17, 2013
1,034
9
0
Zone, zone, zone. don't you just love zone. I used to get zoned out now I just get zoned. ain't that great
 
Feb 17, 2013
1,034
9
0
The last trump that Paul referred to is the trump that signals the end of the church age. Stop avoiding me Therapon. Lets talk okay. you probably have a lot of knowledge that I don't. but , respond to my post please. I'm not trying to defame you. I look for honest and not futile biblical discussion. you are my friend in Christ.
 
Jan 8, 2013
114
7
0
The church will always face tribulation in this life but the great tribulation coming upon the earth is not for the church but for the Jews and the unsaved and those living in unbelief upon the earth. As far as provisions go for the church living upon the earth presently and for the Tribulation saints during that great time of trouble, God has provided promises through his Son that were made by our Lord in the sermon on the mount in Matthew 5,6,7. We need not be anxious nor take any thought for what we might need because our supply will be from the Father above as it was for Israel in the wilderness, being delivered from Egypt. Phil 4:19
 
W

weakness

Guest
Dear Therapon
I have not read your book or guide. But have somewhat understood by conversations on here. It does not concern me so much different interps or understanding that we all have at times whether perfect or not, unless they get just to far out there. For we all have an incomplete understanding ,for we ,at best, know in part. The old story of the three men looking through a knot hole in a wooden fence of an elephant going by.... one sees the trunk another a giant leg and the other a spindly tail. then proceed to argue vehemently how the others are wrong in what was seen. And of course in our immaturity and lack of knowledge sometimes share with less humility than might be expected by Gods children. But God will reveal even these things to us if we are his children. so no sweat. Severe heresy is of more concern. But the thing that concerns me most is this.By your own confession you admit that God has given you special insight or revelation. The fact that you would take something freely given you by God ( which I sincearly doubt to some degree).(This is my interp slightly altered ,but sill in the spirit of the text)....Acts 8:20 But Peter said unto him,thy money perish with thee,for though hast thought that the gift and revelation of God, freely given you for the body, may be sold for money. Thou hast neither part or lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God, Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thy heart may be forgiven thee. For I perceive though art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity. If God gave me a revelation of who the anti-Christ was,I probably would not say anything unless really told to by God. But if I tried to sell it ,I think I would drop dead before I could pick up the first check!!! If you do have a revelation it is for Gods people. It should be freely given. How dare you try and sell it. For the lord of such a servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of. And shall cut him asunder,and appoint his portion with the hypocrites: and there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. It would be well advised to consider thine own self. For what shall a man profit if he gain the world but loose his own soul. Another thing ,I had a picture in my mind today of vermin fighting over the scrapes that fell from the lords table and thought to myself how sad, this fighting over scraps . But the real importance is that by and through the love,mercy and humility of God he has mad us to sit at the table with him as his children ,not fight over scraps. So much we are missing by our sometimes petty bickering over little, that the real purpose of the gospel and work and love of Jesus Christ is missed or takes second stage . I think we should rebuke ,reprove and exhort each other with all long suffering and patients. quick to hear and slow to speak, considering our selves first,least we fall from our own steadfastness. And that we should remind one another today,while it is called today least we let slip what we have already attained. For we all are members of one body and members of one another.
 
T

Therapon

Guest
Dear Therapon
I have not read your book or guide. But have somewhat understood by conversations on here. It does not concern me so much different interps or understanding that we all have at times whether perfect or not, unless they get just to far out there. For we all have an incomplete understanding ,for we ,at best, know in part. The old story of the three men looking through a knot hole in a wooden fence of an elephant going by.... one sees the trunk another a giant leg and the other a spindly tail. then proceed to argue vehemently how the others are wrong in what was seen. And of course in our immaturity and lack of knowledge sometimes share with less humility than might be expected by Gods children. But God will reveal even these things to us if we are his children. so no sweat. Severe heresy is of more concern. But the thing that concerns me most is this.By your own confession you admit that God has given you special insight or revelation. The fact that you would take something freely given you by God ( which I sincearly doubt to some degree).(This is my interp slightly altered ,but sill in the spirit of the text)....Acts 8:20 But Peter said unto him,thy money perish with thee,for though hast thought that the gift and revelation of God, freely given you for the body, may be sold for money. Thou hast neither part or lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God, Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thy heart may be forgiven thee. For I perceive though art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity. If God gave me a revelation of who the anti-Christ was,I probably would not say anything unless really told to by God. But if I tried to sell it ,I think I would drop dead before I could pick up the first check!!! If you do have a revelation it is for Gods people. It should be freely given. How dare you try and sell it. For the lord of such a servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of. And shall cut him asunder,and appoint his portion with the hypocrites: and there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. It would be well advised to consider thine own self. For what shall a man profit if he gain the world but loose his own soul. Another thing ,I had a picture in my mind today of vermin fighting over the scrapes that fell from the lords table and thought to myself how sad, this fighting over scraps . But the real importance is that by and through the love,mercy and humility of God he has mad us to sit at the table with him as his children ,not fight over scraps. So much we are missing by our sometimes petty bickering over little, that the real purpose of the gospel and work and love of Jesus Christ is missed or takes second stage . I think we should rebuke ,reprove and exhort each other with all long suffering and patients. quick to hear and slow to speak, considering our selves first,least we fall from our own steadfastness. And that we should remind one another today,while it is called today least we let slip what we have already attained. For we all are members of one body and members of one another.
Though Amazon,com sells a few books because that is another way to get the message out, everything in the ministry is also a free download. Just ask Zone or enyone else on this forum how much they paid for the Study Guides or books they downloaded.
 
T

Therapon

Guest
During the Christian era, many doctrines have been considered "heresy," but that did not make them false doctrines: believer baptism, communion with both bread and cup being examples. So of course you have to ignore the importance of the day-years and time-times prophecies, because if correct, they doom both Dispensational and Preterist theologies to the dustbin of history.

The day-years and time-times prophecies were fulfilled in just two events:

1. The restoration of the Jewish people to their homeland with the establishment of the new nation of Israel in 1948!
2. The freeing of the city of Jerusalem from Gentile control for the first time in 2573 years on June 6, 1967.

Those are historic realities that cannot be denied and their (to the exact year) fit to the day-year and time-times prophecies is irrefutable!

So despite the many Church doctrines to the contrary, the church is not the only Israel of the Christian era, and the physical seed of Abraham are still part of God’s plan. Over in the holy land right now are millions of people called Jews, many of whom are looking for their Messiah. The Star of David flies over the battlements of Jerusalem and the very existence those historically provable facts prove dual-covenant theology.

You see, God did indeed blind the Jews of the Christian era to the Gospel, Rom 11:8, that is a scriptural given, as is the fact that the Jews are one of God’s Two Witnesses to the Christian era, Rev 11:3-4., Rev 1:20 and Rom 11:24-25. If God blinded the Jews so as to be lost, then He deliberately doomed millions of His chosen people to hell and brroke His everlasting covenant with Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and the prophets. Some may worship that kind of a god, but I don’t.

Of course Zone and the rest of you have to dispute the above, because if correct, all your doctrinal houses of cards collapse down around your ears.


 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

0witnesses of Revelation 11:3-4.
 
T

Therapon

Guest
Though Amazon,com sells a few books because that is another way to get the message out, everything in the ministry is also a free download. Just ask Zone or enyone else on this forum how much they paid for the Study Guides or books they downloaded.
P.S. And I'll ask you one question if I may: How can you be qualified to critique my work if you haven't studied it? Because if you do, with an open heart, you just might find us to be on the same side. <smile>
 
T

Therapon

Guest
The last trump that Paul referred to is the trump that signals the end of the church age. Stop avoiding me Therapon. Lets talk okay. you probably have a lot of knowledge that I don't. but , respond to my post please. I'm not trying to defame you. I look for honest and not futile biblical discussion. you are my friend in Christ.
Sorry brother, I'm trying to answer 50 firecalls, what did I miss?
 
T

Therapon

Guest
The last trump that Paul referred to is the trump that signals the end of the church age. Stop avoiding me Therapon. Lets talk okay. you probably have a lot of knowledge that I don't. but , respond to my post please. I'm not trying to defame you. I look for honest and not futile biblical discussion. you are my friend in Christ.
I believe the last trumpet Paul refers to is not only the end of the Christian era, but the final fulfillment of all biblical prophecy. The very phenomenon of time itself ends then and we will be instantly translated into the eternal kingdom of God. Revelation 10:6-7 are your verses . . .

" . . . there should be time no longer: But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets."

So all prophecy is fulfilled at the last trumpet!
 
P

peterT

Guest
The church will always face tribulation in this life but the great tribulation coming upon the earth is not for the church but for the Jews and the unsaved and those living in unbelief upon the earth.
Where does it say that?

Where does it say the church will not be here for the great tribulation?

Where does it say the tribulation is for the Jews and unbelievers only?
 
A

Anonimous

Guest
I believe the last trumpet Paul refers to is not only the end of the Christian era, but the final fulfillment of all biblical prophecy. The very phenomenon of time itself ends then and we will be instantly translated into the eternal kingdom of God. Revelation 10:6-7 are your verses . . .

" . . . there should be time no longer: But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets."

So all prophecy is fulfilled at the last trumpet!
But, at the last trumpet...there are still seven bowl or vial jusgements. Are these what is called the 'wrath'? Is this where the believers are removed? Prior to the Wrath?
 
P

peterT

Guest
I believe the last trumpet Paul refers to is not only the end of the Christian era, but the final fulfillment of all biblical prophecy. The very phenomenon of time itself ends then and we will be instantly translated into the eternal kingdom of God. Revelation 10:6-7 are your verses . . .

" . . . there should be time no longer: But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets."

So all prophecy is fulfilled at the last trumpet!
The last trumpet It’s not the final fulfilment of ALL biblical prophecy.

For many things are prophesied in the Bible after the last trumpet sounds

marriage of the Lamb.

the battle at Armageddon.

reign with him a thousand years.

And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison.

the devil cast into the lake of fire and brimstone for ever and ever,

a new heaven and a new earth:

the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven,

There shall be time no longer in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, NOT end of ALL biblical prophecy