Free from sin

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#21
If you want to believe you are "in Christ" but also "in sin" at the same time, then that is your choice. But I know that this thinking is in error. :)
Well my physical body is not in Christ or it would be glorified. It does not take a rocket scientist to observe that little fact.

We are positioned in Christ Spiritually. We are in the world and remain in our bodies of flesh until we die or are translated into heaven. The physical body is subject to the weakness of sin and it will not escape until it is converted and glorified together with Christ. This is a state we have not yet attained but look forward to with groaning's like the rest of creation.

Jesus Christ was without sin and went forty days without food or water. If you are without sin as you claim then you should be able to do at least half of what Christ accomplished. Go ahead and test the theory and get back to me.

How would your claim of not sinning serve to draw others to Jesus whereby they might be saved?

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Jan 7, 2015
6,057
78
0
#22
You make it sound as if a believer gains control over the flesh and no longer does the things that are against God's law, and lives a perfect life like Christ, but that is not true, we do still break God's law and we are not perfect in this flesh.

Transgression of the law is sin. Believers can't transgress the law because there is no law for us to transgress, it has been done away with in Christ. We are not under law but under grace. We can not transgress a law that doesn't apply to us... How can you break the speed limit if there is no speed limit?

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
1Jn 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
All unrighteousness is sin, but Christ cleanses us from all unrighteousness=all sin And it's not a law of Moses debate, but it is about us putting to death the deeds of flesh by the power of the Holy Spirit. It is abiding in the fruit of the Spirit, against such there is no law. Here is what must be put to death....

Galatians 5:19-24[SUP]19 [/SUP]Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

And then there is the fruit of the Spirit...


[SUP]22 [/SUP]But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
 
Jan 7, 2015
6,057
78
0
#23
Well my physical body is not in Christ or it would be glorified. It does not take a rocket scientist to observe that little fact.

We are positioned in Christ Spiritually. We are in the world and remain in our bodies of flesh until we die or are translated into heaven. The physical body is subject to the weakness of sin and it will not escape until it is converted and glorified together with Christ. This is a state we have not yet attained but look forward to with groaning's like the rest of creation.

Jesus Christ was without sin and went forty days without food or water. If you are without sin as you claim then you should be able to do at least half of what Christ accomplished. Go ahead and test the theory and get back to me.

How would your claim of not sinning serve to draw others to Jesus whereby they might be saved?

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Again this discussion is not about me. :)
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,713
3,651
113
#26
Yes there is a process, for in Christ we must die daily. But complete freedom is obtainable by the power of Christ who now dwells in us. So to say we do not have, nor can we have complete freedom is to doubt what Jesus said about being free indeed.

John 8:34-36 “Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.[SUP]35 [/SUP]And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
[SUP]36 [/SUP]If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.”

So don’t doubt the power of God in Christ Jesus, but rather believe. Peace
If there is a 'process' this is it...

Galatians 5:17 (KJV) For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

The Lord just isn't into 12 step programs or any steps, It's His work, not ours.
 
Jan 7, 2015
6,057
78
0
#27
If there is a 'process' this is it...

Galatians 5:17 (KJV) For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

The Lord just isn't into 12 step programs or any steps, It's His work, not ours.
Again that's why we must put to death the deeds of the flesh, by the power of God. Did not say it was by our own power, He does the works through us. :)
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,713
3,651
113
#28
Again that's why we must put to death the deeds of the flesh, by the power of God. Did not say it was by our own power, He does the works through us. :)
So which is it..."we must put to death"? or "He does the work through us"?
 
Jan 7, 2015
6,057
78
0
#29
So which is it..."we must put to death"? or "He does the work through us"?
He gives us the power by the Holy Spirit so we might be able to put to death the deeds of the flesh.

John 1:12
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
 
V

Viligant_Warrior

Guest
#30
He gives us the power by the Holy Spirit so we might be able to put to death the deeds of the flesh.
That's not what this verse says ...

John 1:12
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
The word your version translates as power is the Greek exousia (exousia) meaning "the right to exercise [your own] power of choice or authority." We actually get our English word "excuse" from it, as in excusing one's self. That is what some choose to do when the Gospel is revealed to them. But note, one only has this right once he/she believes.
 
Jan 7, 2015
6,057
78
0
#31
That is why we must put to death the lusts of the flesh, that death is shown above in the OP. And look what happens if you put to death the deeds of the body by the power of the Spirit of Life in Christ= You shall Live

Romans 8:13
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
 
V

Viligant_Warrior

Guest
#32
That is why we must put to death the lusts of the flesh, that death is shown above in the OP. And look what happens if you put to death the deeds of the body by the power of the Spirit of Life in Christ= You shall Live

Romans 8:13
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
Yes, but you realize that if you put to death the deeds of the body by the Spirit, that signifies His work, not yours, right?
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,713
3,651
113
#34
That is why we must put to death the lusts of the flesh, that death is shown above in the OP. And look what happens if you put to death the deeds of the body by the power of the Spirit of Life in Christ= You shall Live

Romans 8:13
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
again vss 9-12 is speaking of the Christian who has the Spirit; 13a is a comparative stating what must happen if one doesn't have the Spirit, and 13b states the case again for the Christian who has the Spirit and what happens as a result.
 
Jan 7, 2015
6,057
78
0
#35
2 Timothy 1:7
For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

Colossians 1:29 "Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.
 
Jan 7, 2015
6,057
78
0
#36
again vss 9-12 is speaking of the Christian who has the Spirit; 13a is a comparative stating what must happen if one doesn't have the Spirit, and 13b states the case again for the Christian who has the Spirit and what happens as a result.
Well if you do not have the Spirit then your not truly born again from above. And if someone is manifesting the works of the flesh by sinning then that would be a sign of one who is not truly born again of the Holy Spirit, and of one who is not walking according to the Spirit= fruits of the Spirit.
 
Jan 7, 2015
6,057
78
0
#37
Romans 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.


Romans 16:25
Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

1 Corinthians 1:24
But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
John 8:32
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
 
Jun 22, 2015
54
1
0
#38
ITT: Narcigesis and people arguing a futile battle against the narcigete's false doctrine.
 
Nov 26, 2011
3,818
62
0
#39
People keep misinterpreting these scripture about being free from sin and not sinning. It isn't literal if you take certain parts of the bible as literal you will get the wrong interpretation. Yes we are free from sin it no longer hold us in chains not meaning we never sin but that sin no longer owns us Jesus does and his grace is sufficient

And when it is said we don't sin any more it means we strive not to sin not that we don't sin. If anyone actually believes they no longer sin then they need to humble their hearts before God
Your rhetoric completely ignores the notion of "slaves to whom we obey."

Why is that?

Paul matter of factly stated...

Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Paul relates to the reader two choices...

1. Obey unrighteousness.
2. Obey righteousness.

Isn't it obvious that if one is set free from sin then they are no longer obeying it?

For example if a fornicator is set free from the sin of fornication would they not be in a present state of no longer yielding themselves to fornication?


Posts like yours Blain disconnect "grace is sufficient" from "to whom we obey." In other words an implication is made that one can yield themselves to unrighteousness and yet not be condemned because "grace is sufficient." Is that really what you believe? It would appear so.

Correct me if I am wrong but it seems pretty clear to me. Where do you ever defend the notion that "being set free from sin" has any connection to "how we yield ourselves" ?

Paul wrote...

Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Here Paul speaks of people who were previously servants of sin. In other words Paul is speaking of people who previously obeyed sin, people who yielded themselves to sin.

Thank God though, that those whom Paul is speaking of here obeyed from the heart the doctrine of Jesus Christ and were thus set free from this service of sin and instead became servants of righteousness.

This is not hard to understand. The issue is that many people want a Gospel whereby one can perceive they are saved whilst they still disobey God.

Do you disobey God Blain?

Blain, do you yield yourself to unrighteousness or righteousness? Or perhaps you do obey both masters?


Stopping sin is an offense to sinners.

Jesus stated "go and sin no more" did He not? Did not Jesus tell people to go and sin no more? Yet if anyone claims to have don such a thing you would view them as deceived or liars who need to humble themselves?

Is it any wonder that some religious Pharisees could deny the clear testimony of miracles and the pure of teachings of righteousness which was extant in their midst when 2000 years later people deny the equally obviousness of a plain reading of scripture?

It is no wonder at all.
 
Nov 26, 2011
3,818
62
0
#40
Yes, but you realize that if you put to death the deeds of the body by the Spirit, that signifies His work, not yours, right?
It is a cooperative effort because it is not God that puts to death the deeds of the body. Paul is telling the reader to do it.

Rom 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Col 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
Col 3:2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
Col 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
Col 3:4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
Col 3:5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
Col 3:6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
Col 3:7 In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.
Col 3:8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.
Col 3:9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
Col 3:10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

It is we whom have to mortify our members. God does not do it for us. God provides us with the means to do it but we have to do it.

This is why Jesus preached HEAR and DO. Jesus never taught that He would do it for you. Jesus said...

Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
Mat 7:25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

Vigilant ... Are you a doer? Are you building your house on the rock?

Remember Noah has to build the ark himself, God did not build it for him. Was Noah saved by works salvation?

Noah was saved by GRACE THROUGH FAITH.

God provided the leading, the instruction. Noah had genuine faith and put the provision of God into use. Thus Noah built his house upon the rock.

Noah OBEYED God because Noah BELIEVED and TRUSTED God. Obedience, trust and belief go hand in hand. Faith without works is dead because there is no working dynamic present.

2Co 6:1 We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.

We are made the righteousness of God in Him if we are indeed workers together with God. In other words we have to HEAR and DO. If we hear only and refuse to do then the grace of God is received in vain.

2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Joh 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
Joh 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

True righteousness is a result of abiding in the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ and such an abiding necessitates obedience or doing.

Jas 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.


Self deception is rooted in hearing only and a refusal to do.

Noah would have drowned had he not built the ark.