Free Grace or Faith and Works?

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A man justified before God by:

  • Faith proved outwardly by works of law

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Works alone

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    23

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
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Mat 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

Does this make Jesus a legalist?

Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you. (not think or believe but DO)

We can't overcome in our own power, but if you listen to the devil who is telling us that we shouldn't even try and that it's impossible to overcome you will surely fail.
With Jesus in us ......
“With God all things are possible” Matt 19:26
“I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me” Phil 4:13
“Thanks be to God who always leads us in triumph in Christ” 2 Cor 2:14
“He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing” John 15:5

By faith in Jesus good works are done. Faith and works go hand in hand.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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When you try to separate justification, sanctification and glorification you end up with arguments about faith and works..... When you take all the verses that suit one side and ignore the rest you will believe a lie.
True we are Saved by grace through faith and i think everyone agrees on this point.
Justification is Jesus covering us with His righteousness so that we are seen as pure and without sin. We can not earn this because it is a gift. Sanctification is Jesus working in us by grace, it is also a gift. It is Jesus transforming us into His image so that we become Christ like. Glorification is the transformation of our mortal bodies into a state that can inherit eternal life ( immortality).

Justification leads to sanctification which results in glorification (at the second coming). True faith leads to works of righteousness.

If you just believe is it enough. No - Even the devils believe in what Jesus has done and they believe in that He can save.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Jas 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Jas 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
Jas 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
You HAVE to seperate them, Because they are different thing

We are SAVED because we are JUSTIFIED

Sanctification as we stand has no bearing on our salvation. Because as we stand, we all would be condemned on the spot.


When you mix them, You become like the jews who through pride thought they had to add their WORKS to their FAITH and as such, as paul said, became FOOLS

James in his letter was telling people to test their OWN FAITH. If they are HEARERS of the word but NOT DOERS, If they CLAIM to have faith, But have NO WORKS. Can that faith save them?

No. Why? ITS DEAD.

What does that mean? ITS NOT REAL FAITH. It is Superficial or false faith. Or as James called it. Mere belief (even demons believe)

When it comes to our christian life your right, we can not seperate them

When it comes to our eternal state, we MUST separate them


 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
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i dont agree.
faith only does not improve anyone. someone can proclaim their faith while at the same time get drunk and beat up their wife. unless there are actions to back up your words, they are only words.
I agree.

Once people devalue Christs teaching on the way His people should live and be,
then transformation into the people of God is impossible and the gospel lost.

It is clear to me, being born again is about laying down a different way of being and
interacting with others, based on Jesus and not the world. And it takes effort, dedication,
application, commitment, perseverance.

I would suggest Jesus is a behaviouralist. We behave as we have learnt from past interactions.
Faith in the cross is the foundation, and it means we will strike forward against our inner turmoil
and feelings to build a new way within us guided by His word and the Holy Spirit.

Carrying ones cross is about ignoring the pain and hurt from others and taking the next step
forward. This runs contrary to free gracers, who believe Jesus has saved them despite their
continuing sin, and their sin does not deny the gospel or the value of their faith.
Worse still they arrogantly condemn righteous walkers as hypocrites because they stay
at the gate mocking those who stride forward following the Kingdom.

How the accuser rejoices at their success declaring Christs cross is incapable of conquering
sin and saving Gods people.
 
Mar 14, 2011
72,368
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Mat 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

Does this make Jesus a legalist?

Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you. (not think or believe but DO)

We can't overcome in our own power, but if you listen to the devil who is telling us that we shouldn't even try and that it's impossible to overcome you will surely fail.
With Jesus in us ......
“With God all things are possible” Matt 19:26
“I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me” Phil 4:13
“Thanks be to God who always leads us in triumph in Christ” 2 Cor 2:14
“He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing” John 15:5

By faith in Jesus good works are done. Faith and works go hand in hand.

You cut that verse, making it appear to say something it is not

Here lets finish what Jesus said

20 The young man said to Him, “All these things I have kept [g]from my youth. What do I still lack?”

21 Jesus said to him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”


Notice what Jesus did?

The guy CLAIMED he obeyed all the commands since birth.

Jesus called him out. Trying to expose how wrong he was. And said if he WANTED TO BE PERFECT, God sell and give to the poor

The fact he could not PROVED he had not obeyed the commands since birth, and SHOULD have pointed him to Christ, but it did not, and in pride, he walked away.

 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
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You HAVE to seperate them, Because they are different thing
We are SAVED because we are JUSTIFIED
Sanctification as we stand has no bearing on our salvation. Because as we stand, we all would be condemned on the spot.

When you mix them, You become like the jews who through pride thought they had to add their WORKS to their FAITH and as such, as paul said, became FOOLS
James in his letter was telling people to test their OWN FAITH. If they are HEARERS of the word but NOT DOERS, If they CLAIM to have faith, But have NO WORKS. Can that faith save them?

No. Why? ITS DEAD.
What does that mean? ITS NOT REAL FAITH. It is Superficial or false faith. Or as James called it. Mere belief (even demons believe)
When it comes to our christian life your right, we can not seperate them

When it comes to our eternal state, we MUST separate them
The point of salvation, the cross, Jesus and His teaching is to show us the way we should walk.
He provides the power, the teaching and the change in our hearts.

He declares simply those who love Him, who know Him, obey Him by walking His way.

He is a behaviourist. By walking and fighting through, using the cross as the foundation, we
become His people. But it takes time and effort, and layering in our hearts.

Once you start talking about adding works to salvation etc. you have lost or never had what Christ
means or the Kingdom of heaven is.

Our Father in heaven, hallowed by your name,
Your Kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.

To pray this and walk in rebellion against His will is hypocrisy and a denial of who He is.
There is no compromise over these issues. Only a sinful heart, defeated and lost denies
these realities.

God bless you, and may the Lord bring light into your darkness, to bring healing and
forgiveness where there is none, amen.
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
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You cut that verse, making it appear to say something it is not
Here lets finish what Jesus said

20 The young man said to Him, “All these things I have kept [g]from my youth. What do I still lack?”
21 Jesus said to him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”
Notice what Jesus did?
The guy CLAIMED he obeyed all the commands since birth.
Jesus called him out. Trying to expose how wrong he was. And said if he WANTED TO BE PERFECT, God sell and give to the poor
The fact he could not PROVED he had not obeyed the commands since birth, and SHOULD have pointed him to Christ, but it did not, and in pride, he walked away.
The reason the rich young man walked away, because though he had kept the law, it was just
for himself and not anyone else. If he truly wanted life in God, he needed to give up his security
in wealth and walk in the love of God, which literally was standing in front of him.

He walked away because it was all self centred achieving of salvation without love for others.
All free grace believers want salvation at no cost, and no change, and so are truly lost.
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
1,478
227
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Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Yes they are different but if you have the wrong understanding of sanctification it becomes confusing.
In different branches of christianity Sanctification means different things.
Some focus more on works and other more on grace.

When we are in Christ we are justified (rom 8:1). He covers us. When Jesus is in us we are being sanctified (Rom 8:4).

When we are in Jesus and the Spirit is in us we have no condemnation.
When we are filled with the Spirit we can't help but do good works as a result. When we reject Jesus and the Spirit and walk in the flesh, doing our own will, can you honestly say that Jesus is in you? No. You are not walking in the Spirit and therefore not being Sanctified by Jesus. If you choose to let Jesus in He will by faith work His wonderful transforming power in you (sanctification).


Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Yes they are different but if you have the wrong understanding of sanctification it becomes confusing.
In different branches of christianity Sanctification means different things.
Some focus more on works and other more on grace.

When we are in Christ we are justified (rom 8:1). He covers us. When Jesus is in us we are being sanctified (Rom 8:4).

When we are in Jesus and the Spirit is in us we have no condemnation.
When we are filled with the Spirit we can't help but do good works as a result. When we reject Jesus and the Spirit and walk in the flesh, doing our own will, can you honestly say that Jesus is in you? No. You are not walking in the Spirit and therefore not being Sanctified by Jesus. If you choose to let Jesus in He will by faith work His wonderful transforming power in you (sanctification).


Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Lol

There is no conbdemnation to those who are IN CHRIST

How are we in CHrist?

BY FAITH

What are the characteristics of those who are saved? They Obey (not perfectly)

This does not say one can LOSE salvation or that salvation must be maintained.

YOU can not MAINTAIN YOUR salvation.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
21,189
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Mat 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Jesus showed the rich young ruler how short he falls of keeping even the first commandment (Exodus 20:3) which is the first of the two great commandments (Deuteronomy 6:5; Matthew 22:37). The rich young ruler confidently and (self righteously) declared that he has kept the commandments from his youth up and qualified for heaven under those terms. Yet Jesus knew the man's wealth had become his idolatrous god, which kept him from believing in Jesus unto salvation.

The rich young ruler missed the point that Jesus was making, failed to place his faith in Jesus for salvation, and continued instead to trust in his riches (vs. 21-23). He went away sad because he could not part from his great wealth, not even in exchange for eternal life. If keeping the commandments is the basis or means by which we receive eternal life, then why isn't this remark the pattern for all discussions concerning eternal life? Paul would have said to the jailer who asked, "what must I do to be saved?" by replying in Acts 16:31 - "keep the commandments and you will be saved," yet instead, Paul said - "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.."

Jesus knows the hearts of all men and responds to each individual a little differently because He knows where their need is. He didn't respond to the woman at the well, or to Nicodemus or to the rich young ruler the same way, yet the consistent pattern in scripture is salvation by grace through faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8,9).

Does this make Jesus a legalist?
Jesus is not a legalist, yet I've heard legalists use Matthew 19:17 on numerous occasions to teach salvation by "grace plus law, faith plus works."

Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
So in Hebrews 5:9, who obeys Him? The saved or the lost? I've heard many works-salvationists use this verse to try and support salvation by works. *Only believers have obeyed Him by choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 1:16) in order to become saved, and only believers obey Him after they have been saved through faith by practicing righteousness and not sin and loving his brother (1 John 3:9-10). *In either sense, only believers obey Him.

Unbelievers have not obeyed Him by refusing to believe the gospel (Romans 10:16) and without faith its impossible to please God (Hebrews 11:6), so unbelievers do not obey Him no matter how much "so called" obedience that they attempt to conjure up through the flesh in a vain effort to receive salvation by works. (Matthew 7:22-23) *So in either sense, unbelievers do not obey Him.

2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
Romans 10:16 - But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” We obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel. (Romans 1:16)

Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you. (not think or believe but DO)
John 15:3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me. 5 I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.

We can't overcome in our own power, but if you listen to the devil who is telling us that we shouldn't even try and that it's impossible to overcome you will surely fail.
1 John 5:4 - For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

With Jesus in us ......
“With God all things are possible” Matt 19:26
“I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me” Phil 4:13
“Thanks be to God who always leads us in triumph in Christ” 2 Cor 2:14
“He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing” John 15:5
Amen! Yet none of the verses that you cited above support salvation by works.

By faith in Jesus good works are done. Faith and works go hand in hand.
Faith in Christ is the root of salvation and good works are the fruit. (All genuine believers are fruitful, but not all are equally fruitful) No fruit at all demonstrates there is no root.
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
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Lol
There is no conbdemnation to those who are IN CHRIST
How are we in CHrist?
BY FAITH
What are the characteristics of those who are saved? They Obey (not perfectly)
This does not say one can LOSE salvation or that salvation must be maintained.

YOU can not MAINTAIN YOUR salvation.
1 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus .....
4 who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.
Rom 8:1..4

If one lives by the Spirit you are walking the Law of the Spirit.
There are many who claim to know Jesus yet walk knowingly in sin, denying the
very reality they claim to hold dear, though obviously not.

The way of Christ leads us to its fulfilment, being like Jesus.
Abandon the way, you abandon Jesus.
 

GHClarkII

Active member
Mar 20, 2019
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The reason the rich young man walked away, because though he had kept the law, it was just
for himself and not anyone else. If he truly wanted life in God, he needed to give up his security
in wealth and walk in the love of God, which literally was standing in front of him.

He walked away because it was all self centred achieving of salvation without love for others.
All free grace believers want salvation at no cost, and no change, and so are truly lost.
That's a bit of a harsh statement. I believe in free Grace in Christ's work alone. I don't judge myself because there is no condemnation for those in Christ, but that doesn't mean I don't love the Lord and His law. God ordained good works that we should walk in them, not that we should remain in our sin
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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1 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus .....
4 who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.
Rom 8:1..4

If one lives by the Spirit you are walking the Law of the Spirit.
There are many who claim to know Jesus yet walk knowingly in sin, denying the
very reality they claim to hold dear, though obviously not.

The way of Christ leads us to its fulfilment, being like Jesus.
Abandon the way, you abandon Jesus.
Like Demas yet he was still saved eternally.
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
1,478
227
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I think we all believe much the same thing.

Faith, if it is true, leads to good fruits (works). The works are not done to be saved but because Jesus is working in you.

Jas 3:11 Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter?
Jas 3:12 Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh.

Joh_15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
Joh_15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
To say that we are abiding in Christ (justified) and not bringing forth christlike fruit is a contradiction.

1Jn 2:29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.
1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

By 100% Faith alone is my gift of salvation.
But because i believe that Jesus can work in me when I'm in Him i have hope of bearing His fruits. All glory to Him because it is Him working in me. But some have no hope and are content to do nothing because they think that grace is cheap enough and they can sin that grace may abound. Roms 6:1,2.
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
1,478
227
63
judgement is for God who knows all things.
All we need to do is make sure we are in Christ and Christ is in us. The rest will come naturally if this is so.
 

Jimbone

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2014
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Romans 8:7-12
King James Version


7 Because the carnal mind [is] enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

10 And if Christ [be] in you, the body [is] dead because of sin; but the Spirit [is] life because of righteousness.

My view on spiritual rebirth and It's just opinion and hopefully If I'm wrong someone don't let me remain In error but I think the spirit that all men have at Natural birth gives life to the body but upon rebirth GOD gives them a BRAND new spirit that was created by GOD.GOD sealed us AND equipped us with desire AND fruit of the Spirit,JESUS the vine and we,the branches, members of the body receiving sustenance from the VINE displaying spiritual fruit establishing the law,then we should present our bodies a living sacrifice which Is a reasonable thing to do.

I believe before GOD did a work,the old man was alive but after GOD did a work In us the old man died and I don't believe the old man can slowly come back to life.
I believe that once a person believes they cannot stop believing,If a color Is red,how can someone tell you It's now blue when you ALREADY know It's red.

Some things are not clearly written In scripture that a person can see right away but they are received line upon line,precept upon precept,here a little,there a little.
I couldn't agree with you more brother, although I do believe when we are born physically the first time, our spirit is dead, and totally cut off from God. I also believe in and of ourselves in the flesh could NEVER "figure out" what was wrong. We would, will, and do try to compensate for this incompleteness by fleshly means because we have no way at all of ever even knowing about our true condition. This is why direct revelation is NECESSARY. This is why it's "News" at all. Through the Jewish people God told them exactly who, what, when, how, and why He was going to bring about salvation and the only way to "fix" the broken problem in each of us.

Then the Creator of all, our very God condescends Himself and steps into His creation to make a way for us to be reconciled to our Father, to Him, and to be the light that exposes our depravity and chases the darkness away. Praise our amazing King!!! Then when He grants us repentance and opens our eyes and hearts we are grafted directly into the source of life and we were created to be, AND now able to produce fruit. I have to testify how powerful our God is to save and CHANGE people to, by nature and so willingly, go and make disciples of all nations. Also He uses each of us differently, for different things, in different time frames.

I personally have to proclaim how the Lord complete changed me by His grace and power, and that's also what I see around me as well. People proclaiming truth and people getting saved, and ALL by His power and for His magnificent glory. :D:D(y)(y)

And I to believe the bible tells us that of all the Father gives Him, He will lose none, so I too believe and trust that ?I cannot lose my salvation, I believe His power, but also can only testify truly of whats in me and don't know about hypothetical situations, or "what if's", only what Gods done to and in my heart/life/family/friends/community, because it is ALL effected by His power through this clown. He is great and uses our weaknesses, our defeats, to showcase His Strength and Total Victory.

There is no name higher than the name Jesus, and I will praise His name the exact same in the sun shine or rain, may His kingdom forever reign, and Your glory always be proclaimed.
Oh, Holy Father, I'm bursting at the seams, You've filled me up so full that it's pouring out in stream, I will shout His praise all my days, oh our Savior who redeems, Jesus our Christ is the very truth of life, He is our mighty King.
And though I know it's not much, and it's all I bring, Lord it's already Yours, but I give you everything.
 
Dec 9, 2011
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I think you are not understanding what I was trying to get across. I am not trying to make an issue or debate about the faith of Jesus versus faith from Jesus.

All I was trying to say was that Ephesians 2:8 says that we are saved by grace through faith. Ephesians 2:8 does not say if this faith is our faith or if it is the faith of Jesus.
Ephesians 2:8
King James Version

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
+++
All I was trying to say was that Ephesians 2:8 says that we are saved by grace through faith. Ephesians 2:8 does not say if this faith is our faith or if it is the faith of Jesus.
GOD saves us by Grace through faith and I think this IS saying that this scripture saying that It Is GODs faith.Faith pleases GOD and this scripture DOES say this Is not from ourselves but It Is a gift,a gift from GOD.

The bible says faith comes by hearing so then If the faith comes and It's not of ourselves then It would have to be from GOD.

Now JESUS DID say,YOUR faith has healed you and this Is my opinion on this, HE was talking about faith so to speak of a man or to believe without seeing with the eyes but the kind of faith that man needs to go on through to salvation Is GODs workmanship.
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
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If you want to remain in ignorance, then by all means stay there....!!!!!

But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost

For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God

And He said to the woman, "Your faith has saved you; go in peace."

For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
I will keep saying that I am saved by grace through faith; you may say you are saved by faith alone! ;)
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
I will keep saying that I am saved by grace through faith; you may say you are saved by faith alone! ;)
It stated as "faith alone" to but it more accurate to state "faith apart from works"...if that helps.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
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My time on this forum has been relatively short, but I've seen a common theme. There seems to be a long standing debate between those who teach free Grace and those who do not, in whatever form that takes. Some think salvation can even be lost and our purchased redemption can be forfeited. I'd really like to see someone defend this idea of faith and works. I'm hoping this can get a good discussion going about the nature of Grace.

May God be the Judge
We are delivered (saved) both by God's sovereign grace eternally and we are delivered (saved) many times as we live our lives here on earth by our good works by obeying God's commandments and repenting when we sometimes yield our bodies to our desires of the things of the world. Each time we repent and God forgives us we have just received a deliverance from those sins and stand in good fellowship again with God.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
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The cross paid sin in full for every human being..thats justification, and it applies to all humanity....Justification by faith or those who believe in him shall not perish.
Read J0hn 6 again. Jesus only died for those that his Father gave him, not all mankind.