Free will is an unbiblical concept

[Endoscopy]

I agree there is no Lucifer only Satan.

ROFL
Different names for the same being. Lucifer means light and was his name was changed to Satan after his rebellion along with 1/3 of the angels!!

 

[Endoscopy]

So John 3:16 according to you:
For God so loved the elect that he gave his only begotten that whosoever is chosen by him will believe in him and not perish but have everlasting life

I prefer AMPC. Look at what believe becomes with the added definitions.

John 3 AMPC
16 For God so greatly loved and dearly prized the world that He [even] gave up His only begotten (unique) Son, so that whoever believes in (trusts in, clings to, relies on) Him shall not perish (come to destruction, be lost) but have eternal (everlasting) life

 

[ForestGreenCook]

I refer to the fact that at that time the elders created the creed and allowed the Christians to have diverse opinions outside of it. This is what the elders did and wrote about. You are ignoring this fact. It was devout Christians not ordinary historians. Today we still have all of those issues today in the diverse gospel preaching denominations. Your ego is getting in the way of reality. Keep in mind that you are accusing yourself since you are taking a stand on your private view of what you yourself believe ignoring the many devout Christians believe otherwise. What makes your view so perfect when so many other Christians view what the meaning of the inerrant scriptures say is different from yours.

Suck it up and understand that you are not the only one who can understand what the meaning of the scriptures is. You are a fallible person like the rest of it are. That is why all of the diverse opinions exist that you disregard!!

So, I am trying to understand, do you think that the scriptures do not harmonize because there are diverse gospel preaching?

 

[Endoscopy]

So, I am trying to understand, do you think that the scriptures do not harmonize because there are diverse gospel preaching?

The problem you don't seem to understand is many scriptures are open to interpretation in various ways. Live with it.

 

[UnderGrace]

ROFL
Different names for the same being. Lucifer means light and was his name was changed to Satan after his rebellion along with 1/3 of the angels!!

Here Locutus did a great job summarizing this myth of Lucifer earlier in the thread..............

No such thing as a "Lucifer", it's a made up word from Jerome's Vulgate.

(Isa 14:12 KJV) How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer (heylel), son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

No such thing as a "lucifer" - the reference to satan is bogus and a Christian Mythstake that needs to be thrown out.

Adam Clarke's commentary

"Verse 12.

O Lucifer, son of the morning

The Versions in general agree in this translation, and render heilel as signifying Lucifer, the morning star, whether Jupiter or Venus; as these are both bringers of the morning light, or morning stars,annually in their turn.

And although the context speaks explicitly concerning Nebuchadnezzar, yet this has been, I know not why, applied to the chief of the fallen angels, who is most incongruously denominated Lucifer, (the bringer of light!) an epithet as common to him as those of Satan and Devil. That the Holy Spirit by his prophets should call this arch-enemy of God and man the light-bringer, would be strange indeed.

But the truth is, the text speaks nothing at all concerning Satan nor his fall, nor the occasion of that fall, which many divines have with great confidence deduced from this text.

O how necessary it is to understand the literal meaning of Scripture,that preposterous comments may be prevented! Besides, I doubt much whether our translation be correct. heilel, which we translate Lucifer, comes from yalal, yell, howl, or shriek, and should be translated, "Howl, son of the morning;" and so the Syriachas understood it; and for this meaning Michaelis contends: see his reasons in Parkhurst, under halal.

Verse13.
I will ascend into heaven

I will get the empire of the whole world. I will exalt my throne above the stars of God-above the Israelites, who are here termed the stars of God.
Se the Targum of Jonathan, and R. D. Kimchi. This chapter speaks not of the ambition and fall of Satan, but of the pride, arrogance, and fall of Nebuchadnezzar."

 

[Endoscopy]

5 minute rule
There have always been diverse views on much of scripture. The Apostles Creed was written to define the essential beliefs a Christian must have. Outside of it the early elders stated to agree to disagree. Solo Scriptorum is fine and true but doesn't solve the problem of diverse views of its meaning. Those diverse views cause the different gospel preaching denominations.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

The problem you don't seem to understand is many scriptures are open to interpretation in various ways. Live with it.

Not so! The scriptures must harmonize! There are no contradicting scriptures.

 

[notuptome]

Not so! The scriptures must harmonize! There are no contradicting scriptures.

True and it would have been good if Adam had know that little fact. Adam chose to sin while Eve was deceived to sin. Too bad Adam did not know to harmonize scripture and blame Gods sovereignty for his sin.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[ForestGreenCook]

True and it would have been good if Adam had know that little fact. Adam chose to sin while Eve was deceived to sin. Too bad Adam did not know to harmonize scripture and blame Gods sovereignty for his sin.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

You claim that God has given you free choice, and I agree, except for your eternal salvation, so, when you sin, do you blame God?

 

[ForestGreenCook]

The problem you don't seem to understand is many scriptures are open to interpretation in various ways. Live with it.

If they do not harmonize, they are not the true gospel of Jesus Christ.

 

[notuptome]

You claim that God has given you free choice, and I agree, except for your eternal salvation, so, when you sin, do you blame God?

Who cares whether you agree or not? What God has established in His word is what is important. God gave Adam the responsibility to choose. Adam chose sin and God did not prevent Adam from sinning.

You have a responsibility to choose Christ. If you choose sin over Christ you will suffer the consequences. Man cannot abrogate the consequences of sin.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Who cares whether you agree or not? What God has established in His word is what is important. God gave Adam the responsibility to choose. Adam chose sin and God did not prevent Adam from sinning.

You have a responsibility to choose Christ. If you choose sin over Christ you will suffer the consequences. Man cannot abrogate the consequences of sin.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Surly you are not advocating that you do not sin, are you? John 15:16, Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you. Eph 1:4, According as he hath chosen us. The natural man will never choose God until he has been regenerated and born of the Spirit(Eph 2:5).

 

[notuptome]

Surly you are not advocating that you do not sin, are you? John 15:16, Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you. Eph 1:4, According as he hath chosen us. The natural man will never choose God until he has been regenerated and born of the Spirit(Eph 2:5).

That is your contention based on a faulty comprehension of scripture. Correct comprehension is that the Holy Spirit ministers in the unregenerate heart to bring conviction of sin, righteousness and judgment. John 16:8-11.

The rest is just meaningless droning.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Endoscopy]

Here Locutus did a great job summarizing this myth of Lucifer earlier in the thread..............

ROFL
Where do you think the name of Jehovah comes from. The Latin vulgate. In Latin there is no Y but J is pronounced like a Y. There is no W in Latin but a V is pronounced like a W. Therefore in Latin the YHWH is JHVH thus becoming Jehovah. Vowels added between the consonants.

I took Latin in HS for my language requirement.

Not so! The scriptures must harmonize! There are no contradicting scriptures.

You are exceedingly neive in this subject. Historically there has been many disagreements documented starting in the 200s.

Explain the difference between Calvinism and Armenianism. Look up both for scripture references and both have them. Also why are there so many different gospel preaching denominations? They differ over the meaning of the scriptures. How can you explain these absolute facts.

This started by 200. The Roman Creed and its update then the more updated Apostle's Creed and the Nicene creeds, and lastly the Athenasian Creed were created by 400. All of them spell out the definition of a Christian. With everything outside it open to discussion and agree to disagree.

Calvinism vs Arminianism

5 points of Calvinism
Calvinism is known by an acronym: T.U.L.I.P.
1. Total Depravity (also known as Total Inability and Original Sin)
2. Unconditional Election
3. Limited Atonement (also known as Particular Atonement)
4. Irresistible Grace
5. Perseverance of the Saints (also known as Once Saved Always Saved)

5 points of Arminianism

1. Human Free Will
2. Conditional Election
3. Universal Atonement
4.Resistable Grace
5. Fall from Grace


Explain how both of these are backed up by scripture.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

That is your contention based on a faulty comprehension of scripture. Correct comprehension is that the Holy Spirit ministers in the unregenerate heart to bring conviction of sin, righteousness and judgment. John 16:8-11.

The rest is just meaningless droning.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I do not think that the apostles had an unregenerate heart, and that is who Jesus is talking to.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

ROFL
Where do you think the name of Jehovah comes from. The Latin vulgate. In Latin there is no Y but J is pronounced like a Y. There is no W in Latin but a V is pronounced like a W. Therefore in Latin the YHWH is JHVH thus becoming Jehovah. Vowels added between the consonants.

I took Latin in HS for my language requirement.

You are exceedingly neive in this subject. Historically there has been many disagreements documented starting in the 200s.

Explain the difference between Calvinism and Armenianism. Look up both for scripture references and both have them. Also why are there so many different gospel preaching denominations? They differ over the meaning of the scriptures. How can you explain these absolute facts.

This started by 200. The Roman Creed and its update then the more updated Apostle's Creed and the Nicene creeds, and lastly the Athenasian Creed were created by 400. All of them spell out the definition of a Christian. With everything outside it open to discussion and agree to disagree.

Calvinism vs Arminianism

5 points of Calvinism
Calvinism is known by an acronym: T.U.L.I.P.
1. Total Depravity (also known as Total Inability and Original Sin)
2. Unconditional Election
3. Limited Atonement (also known as Particular Atonement)
4. Irresistible Grace
5. Perseverance of the Saints (also known as Once Saved Always Saved)

5 points of Arminianism

1. Human Free Will
2. Conditional Election
3. Universal Atonement
4.Resistable Grace
5. Fall from Grace


Explain how both of these are backed up by scripture.

While there are many opposing views of the scriptures (false doctrines), there is only one true doctrine of Jesus, and that is the one where all of the scriptures harmonize. That is why we are discussing the scriptures, to see who can harmonize all of the scriptures. If your doctrine has contradicting scriptures, you do not preach the true doctrine of Jesus.

 

[Endoscopy]

I do not think that the apostles had an unregenerate heart, and that is who Jesus is talking to.

Did that include Judas?

 

[garee]

I do not think that the apostles had an unregenerate heart, and that is who Jesus is talking to.

Their new born again hearts were being regenerated all the days of their lives. This revealed the good news in Philippians 1:6

For your fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now; Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ: Philippians 1:6

 

[Cee]

Did you post this thread of your own free will?

 

[ForestGreenCook]

ROFL
Where do you think the name of Jehovah comes from. The Latin vulgate. In Latin there is no Y but J is pronounced like a Y. There is no W in Latin but a V is pronounced like a W. Therefore in Latin the YHWH is JHVH thus becoming Jehovah. Vowels added between the consonants.

I took Latin in HS for my language requirement.

You are exceedingly neive in this subject. Historically there has been many disagreements documented starting in the 200s.

Explain the difference between Calvinism and Armenianism. Look up both for scripture references and both have them. Also why are there so many different gospel preaching denominations? They differ over the meaning of the scriptures. How can you explain these absolute facts.

This started by 200. The Roman Creed and its update then the more updated Apostle's Creed and the Nicene creeds, and lastly the Athenasian Creed were created by 400. All of them spell out the definition of a Christian. With everything outside it open to discussion and agree to disagree.

Calvinism vs Arminianism

5 points of Calvinism
Calvinism is known by an acronym: T.U.L.I.P.
1. Total Depravity (also known as Total Inability and Original Sin)
2. Unconditional Election
3. Limited Atonement (also known as Particular Atonement)
4. Irresistible Grace
5. Perseverance of the Saints (also known as Once Saved Always Saved)

5 points of Arminianism

1. Human Free Will
2. Conditional Election
3. Universal Atonement
4.Resistable Grace
5. Fall from Grace


Explain how both of these are backed up by scripture.

Unless you deny yourself (depending upon your much learning) the Holy Spirit will not reveal truths to you, lest you would take credit for your much learning, instead of giving God credit for revealing truths to you. Both of these are not backed up by scripture.