Galatian Conundrums

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FollowtheShepherd

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That's not really different.
Peter says he was chosen that Gentiles heard through him. Paul says he was appointed to evangelize Gentiles and Peter to Jews. Yet Paul habitually went to Jews first as he traveled - no contradiction, no imaginary "different Gospels" just different primary ministries.
Except Paul said:

Galatians 2:7-8, “In fact, they saw that I had been entrusted with the gospel for the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been entrusted with the gospel for the circumcised. For the one who worked through Peter by making him an apostle to the circumcised also worked through me by sending me to the Gentiles.”

I would suggest a deep study of what Gal 2 really says:

Galatians 2:4-14, " 4 Yet because of false brothers secretly brought in—who slipped in to spy out our freedom that we have in Christ Jesus, so that they might bring us into slavery— 5 to them we did not yield in submission even for a moment, so that the truth of the gospel might be preserved for you. 6 And from those who seemed to be influential (what they were makes no difference to me; God shows no partiality)—those, I say, who seemed influential added nothing to me. 7 On the contrary, when they saw that I had been entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been entrusted with the gospel to the circumcised 8 (for he who worked through Peter for his apostolic ministry to the circumcised worked also through me for mine to the Gentiles), 9 and when James and Cephas and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given to me, they gave the right hand of fellowship to Barnabas and me, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised. 10 Only, they asked us to remember the poor, the very thing I was eager to do. 11 But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned. 12 For before certain men came from James, he was eating with the Gentiles; but when they came he drew back and separated himself, fearing the circumcision party. 13 And the rest of the Jews acted hypocritically along with him, so that even Barnabas was led astray by their hypocrisy. 14 But when I saw that their conduct was not in step with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas before them all, “If you, though a Jew, live like a Gentile and not like a Jew, how can you force the Gentiles to live like Jews?”

and figure out wwho Paul is talking about when he says "those who seemed influential" and "when James and Cephas and John, who seemed to be pillars"

Galatians 2:2-9, " 2 I went up because of a revelation and set before them (though privately before those who seemed influential) the gospel that I proclaim among the Gentiles, in order to make sure I was not running or had not run in vain. 3 But even Titus, who was with me, was not forced to be circumcised, though he was a Greek. 4 Yet because of false brothers secretly brought in—who slipped in to spy out our freedom that we have in Christ Jesus, so that they might bring us into slavery— 5 to them we did not yield in submission even for a moment, so that the truth of the gospel might be preserved for you. 6 And from those who seemed to be influential (what they were makes no difference to me; God shows no partiality)—those, I say, who seemed influential added nothing to me. 7 On the contrary, when they saw that I had been entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been entrusted with the gospel to the circumcised 8 (for he who worked through Peter for his apostolic ministry to the circumcised worked also through me for mine to the Gentiles), 9 and when James and Cephas and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given to me, they gave the right hand of fellowship to Barnabas and me, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised."

and ask yourself who is King of kings?

John 12:48, “He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day.”

and maybe study revelation 2 also.

Revelation 2:14, "But I have a few things against you: you have some there who hold the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the sons of Israel, so that they might eat food sacrificed to idols and practice sexual immorality."

1 Corinthians 10:23-33, “All things are lawful,” but not all things are helpful. “All things are lawful,” but not all things build up. Let no one seek his own good, but the good of his neighbor. Eat whatever is sold in the meat market without raising any question on the ground of conscience. For “the earth is the Lord’s, and the fullness thereof.” If one of the unbelievers invites you to dinner and you are disposed to go, eat whatever is set before you without raising any question on the ground of conscience. But if someone says to you, “This has been offered in sacrifice,” then do not eat it, for the sake of the one who informed you, and for the sake of conscience— I do not mean your conscience, but his. For why should my liberty be determined by someone else’s conscience? If I partake with thankfulness, why am I denounced because of that for which I give thanks? So, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God. Give no offense to Jews or to Greeks or to the church of God, just as I try to please everyone in everything I do, not seeking my own advantage, but that of many, that they may be saved."

Revelation 2:15-16, “So also you have some who hold the teaching of the Nicolaitans. Therefore repent. If not, I will come to you soon and war against them with the sword of my mouth.”

1 Corinthians 8:7-8, "However, not all possess this knowledge. But some, through former association with idols, eat food as really offered to an idol, and their conscience, being weak, is defiled. Food will not commend us to God. We are no worse off if we do not eat, and no better off if we do."

Revelation 2:20, "But I have this against you, that you tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess and is teaching and seducing my servants to practice sexual immorality and to eat food sacrificed to idols."

Revelation 2:2
 

Mii

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Mar 23, 2019
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Alas, the post I was trying to quote disappeared.
It took Christ Himself in direct communication with Paul and Peter to let them see their place in spreading the good news of the Kingdom of God.
Paul would see his ministry toward the gentiles.
Peter would see His ministry toward the Jews.
Peter however in his ministry toward the Jews could not bring Himself into the complete separation from the law.
This is where Christ came to Peter and through Peters dream showed Him that the jews and Gentiles where equal partakers in the Kingdom of God.
Peter was always known as the stubborn apostle. Even with that said it was also clear that for what ever reason Jesus held Him closer than the others.
I believe this is actually of critical importance. It shows the fallibility of humanity and that sometimes even when our heart is in the right place we still need some correction. Pretty neat...shows me also that the Lord will correct when you aren't sure, you are to just WALK and he will direct if you stray in your path, or if he has a new directive.

Like where do you think Peters heart was in Mt 16:22-24? Clearly in error but unintentional error possibly? Probably.
 

Mii

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Acts 15:6-7, “So the apostles and the elders met to consider this statement. After a lengthy debate, Peter stood up and said to them, “Brothers, you know that in the early days God chose me to be the one among you through whom the Gentiles would hear the message of the gospel and believe."
I think if you look a little deeper it's not that unreasonable that both scriptures could be true. The one I quoted and the following one.

I don't want to reach too far but doing something by proxy is still doing it.


For me, confirmation is certainly nice, and I think the confirmation is seen. Without Peter's confirmation of Paul? It wasn't Peter though, I believe it was the Lord working through both of them but it's like "extra cred". Or at least that's where I'm ruminating. I shy away from using humanistic reasoning to allow scriptures to agree but at the same time we are dealing with humans that had to have intervention in order to understand so there is that.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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The Jew and the gentile could always be saved together .

Its not about flesh as if God was respecter of corrupted creation (dead in its trespasses and sin) . Abel who was revealed the mystery of faith he was saved by grace. this is long before God took two nations the Amorites and Hittites Abraham lineage and created one to be used to represent the whole of mankind . Using their flesh as types and shadows to represent faith and unbelief.

As Christians we do not wrestle against flesh and blood and neither are we supported by it. Jesus said of his own Jewish flesh it profits for zero. We walk by faith not by sight.

What's your hope in eulogizing the flesh of nation against another? Find something lost ?
Its remarkable how you show, time after time, you read Paul into everything, even in the OT.

From the time of Moses, Gentiles who worshipped the Lord were first required to circumcise their males, according to passages such as Ex.12:48-49. By doing so, these Gentiles were thereby blessing the nation of Israel (the physical seed of Abraham), and acknowledging their own inferiority as Gentiles.

Read your OT properly, the Lord had called Israel to be His chosen people from the start, and severed them from other people (the Gentiles), as He states in Lev.20:25-26 -

"Ye shall therefore put difference between clean beasts and unclean, and between unclean fowls and clean: and ye shall not make your souls abominable by beast, or by fowl, or by any manner of living thing that creepeth on the ground, which I have separated from you as unclean. And ye shall be holy unto me: for I the LORD am holy, and have severed you from other people, that ye should be mine."

Nor was Israel's separation voluntary. Instead, because of her separation from "all the people that are upon the face of the earth", Israel found grace in the Lord's sight, as Moses states in Ex.33:16 -

"For wherein shall it be known here that I and thy people have found grace in thy sight? is it not in that thou goest with us? so shall we be separated, I and thy people, from all the people that are upon the face of the earth."

In fact, after the hireling prophet Balaam had been unsuccessfully hired by Balak to curse the nation of Israel, the Lord even inspired Balaam to prophesy that the people of Israel were to dwell alone. Balaam also prophesied that "the people" (Israel) would not be reckoned among the nations, in Num.23:9 -

"For from the top of the rocks I see him, and from the hills I behold him: lo, the people shall dwell alone, and shall not be reckoned among the nations."

Another example of the Gentiles' exclusion from the Lord's earthly ministry, in which a Gentile was only "worthy" of the Lord's consideration because he blessed the nation of Israel, is found in Luke chapter 7. There, a Roman Centurion (a Gentile) sent the Jewish elders to Jesus, asking Him to come and heal a servant who was near death. The only reason this Gentile was even considered worthy was due to the fact that he had blessed the nation of Israel by building them a synagogue, according to Luke7:2-5 -

"And a certain centurion's servant, who was dear unto him, was sick, and ready to die. And when he heard of Jesus, he sent unto him the elders of the Jews, beseeching him that he would come and heal his servant. And when they came to Jesus, they besought him instantly, saying, That he was worthy for whom he should do this: For he loveth our nation, and he hath built us a synagogue."

Since this Gentile had built a synagogue for the Jews, thereby blessing the nation of Israel, the Lord honored the Centurion's request.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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Like where do you think Peters heart was in Mt 16:22-24? Clearly in error but unintentional error possibly? Probably.
You do not need to believe nor understand Jesus's death burial and resurrection, in order to preach the Gospel of the Kingdom.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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He was rejected already by the time of Samuel.

1 Samuel 8:7
And the LORD said to Samuel, "Heed the voice of the people in all that they say to you; for they have not rejected you, but they have rejected Me, that I should not reign over them."
You can't help trolling can't you?

God the Father is distinct from God the Son here.
 

FollowtheShepherd

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Sep 15, 2019
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I think if you look a little deeper it's not that unreasonable that both scriptures could be true. The one I quoted and the following one.

I don't want to reach too far but doing something by proxy is still doing it.


For me, confirmation is certainly nice, and I think the confirmation is seen. Without Peter's confirmation of Paul? It wasn't Peter though, I believe it was the Lord working through both of them but it's like "extra cred". Or at least that's where I'm ruminating. I shy away from using humanistic reasoning to allow scriptures to agree but at the same time we are dealing with humans that had to have intervention in order to understand so there is that.
So how did Jesus send Peter to Jews and Paul to Gentiles, When Jesus sent Peter to Jews and Gentiles?:

Galatians 2:7-8, “In fact, they saw that I had been entrusted with the gospel for the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been entrusted with the gospel for the circumcised. For the one who worked through Peter by making him an apostle to the circumcised also worked through me by sending me to the Gentiles.”

when Jesus sentthem to Jews and Gentiles?

Jesus sent all His disciple to the gentiles including Peter:

Matthew 24:14, “And this Good News of the reign shall be proclaimed in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end shall come.”

Acts 1:6-8, " 6 So when they had come together, they asked him, “Lord, will you at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” 7 He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by his own authority. 8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”

Luke 24:44-49, “44 Then he said to them, “These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you, that everything written about me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.” 45 Then he opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, 46 and said to them, “Thus it is written, that the Christ should suffer and on the third day rise from the dead, 47 and that repentance and forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem. 48 You are witnesses of these things. 49 And behold, I am sending the promise of my Father upon you. But stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on high.”

Acts 15:6-7, “So the apostles and the elders met to consider this statement. After a lengthy debate, Peter stood up and said to them, “Brothers, you know that in the early days God chose me to be the one among you through whom the Gentiles would hear the message of the gospel and believe."



Only Paul says differnt and everyone siddes with Paul not Jesus:

Galatians 2:7-8, “In fact, they saw that I had been entrusted with the gospel for the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been entrusted with the gospel for the circumcised. For the one who worked through Peter by making him an apostle to the circumcised also worked through me by sending me to the Gentiles.”
 

Mii

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You do not need to believe nor understand Jesus's death burial and resurrection, in order to preach the Gospel of the Kingdom.
Who can FULLY understand Yeshua's Death burial and resurrection?
 
Jan 12, 2019
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Who can FULLY understand Yeshua's Death burial and resurrection?
Fully is a word that implies omniscience. The answer will be no, of course.

But do you agree that preaching to the Jews to accept Jesus as their promised Messiah and King, as promised by the OT prophets, does not require any knowledge of Jesus having to die?
 

PS

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Jan 11, 2013
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Fully is a word that implies omniscience. The answer will be no, of course.

But do you agree that preaching to the Jews to accept Jesus as their promised Messiah and King, as promised by the OT prophets, does not require any knowledge of Jesus having to die?
The empty tomb, the angel, and Christ's resurrection should have told any thinking Jew that Jesus was their promised Messiah and King in this life and in the next. Not forgetting the ascension, Moses and Elijah.
 
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The empty tomb, the angel, and Christ's resurrection should have told any thinking Jew that Jesus was their promised Messiah and King in this life and in the next.
Well, when John the Baptist, during the lowest point of his life when he actually sent his disciples to ask Jesus whether he is indeed the promised Messiah, do you recall how Jesus responded to them?
 

PS

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Well, when John the Baptist, during the lowest point of his life when he actually sent his disciples to ask Jesus whether he is indeed the promised Messiah, do you recall how Jesus responded to them?
Tell me. I'm not playing games.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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Tell me. I'm not playing games.
You don't want to read the Bible?

Jesus pointed to the miracles of healing that he had done, as was prophesied by Isaiah.

He did not say to them "Because I would die on the cross for your sins, and be resurrected".
 

PS

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You don't want to read the Bible?

Jesus pointed to the miracles of healing that he had done, as was prophesied by Isaiah.

He did not say to them "Because I would die on the cross for your sins, and be resurrected".
All of which proves Jesus was and is forever more, the promised Messiah in this life and the next.
 

posthuman

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You don't want to read the Bible?

Jesus pointed to the miracles of healing that he had done, as was prophesied by Isaiah.

He did not say to them "Because I would die on the cross for your sins, and be resurrected".
as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up,
that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.
(John 3:14-15)
 

posthuman

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I would suggest a deep study of what Gal 2 really says:
amen

they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship
(Galatians 2:9)

Can two walk together, except they be agreed?
(Amos 3:3)


Well, when John the Baptist, during the lowest point of his life when he actually sent his disciples to ask Jesus whether he is indeed the promised Messiah, do you recall how Jesus responded to them?

"
the dead are raised"
 

PS

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What on earth is there to dislike in the teaching of Paul?

I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, and I have remained faithful. -2 Timothy 4:7

“Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us” (Romans 8:37).

Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead. -1 Peter 1:3-4

But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. -Romans 5:8

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. -Galatians 3:28

The natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. -1 Corinthians 2:14,15

Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh, for the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. -Galatians 5:16,17

Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus according to the commandment of God our Savior, and of Christ Jesus, who is our hope. -1 Timothy 1:1

…yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach. -Colossians 1:22

...if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved ; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. -Colossians 1:22

For by grace you have been saved through faith ; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God ; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. -Ephesians 2:4-9

He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures. -1 Corinthians 15: 1-4

Rejoice with them that do rejoice, and weep with them that weep. -Romans 12:15

The foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men. -1 Corinthians 1:25

You know the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that you through his poverty might be rich. -2 Corinthians 8:9

The day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night, for when they shall say, "Peace and safety” then sudden destruction comes upon them. -1 Thessalonians 5:2-3

In everything give thanks. -1 Thessalonians 5:18