Gay and confused

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Dec 24, 2014
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#61
Do you question how homosexuality is represented in scripture. It is never portrayed as anything but sin.
What I'm saying is we need to use our heads when concerning this. If you love and are sexually attracted to women, would you have sex with a man just because????? That makes no sense whatsoever! So what would make a person gay? Maybe just like you, they were made that way. But because people go to these buildings called "churches" that feed on the fears of the people through violence and lawlessness, they are taught lies for the profit and gain of their various leaders.
 
Dec 24, 2014
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#62
does that new creature have a nature that loves sin and perversion?

i simply believe that the those things that lead to death are no part of the regenerated man He has made of me.
if i still consider myself to be the man that chased after these things - if i build again what is destroyed - i have denied the new creation.

He told the woman caught in adultery to go and sin no more.

let those things be shaken, and let them be removed!
Will you live forever? If not, then I suggest worrying and identfying your own sin(s) instead of condemn others of the wrongs you see in them. New means new. I'm not concerned with "gay" as for me, it was left in the grave.

There re are no "gay" dead men.
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
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#63
What I'm saying is we need to use our heads when concerning this. If you love and are sexually attracted to women, would you have sex with a man just because????? That makes no sense whatsoever! So what would make a person gay? Maybe just like you, they were made that way. But because people go to these buildings called "churches" that feed on the fears of the people through violence and lawlessness, they are taught lies for the profit and gain of their various leaders.
No. Defending homosexuality is a rationalization process by which people attempt to normalize deviant choices that cannot be justified through any psychological exercise. This is simply an attempt to placate a conscience that cannot harmonize the thing one desires and the moral limitations that prohibit the behavior. Homosexuality is not a biological issue, it is a sin issue. It is not socially acceptable behavior, it is a social and moral disgrace. Homosexuality is not an illness nor is it some type of genetic abnormality. It is certainly not engineered biologically at birth. Homosexuals are NOT born gay. This is nothing more than an attempt to appeal to the scientific community and call them as a witness against the defense of scripture to defend this perverted behavior. Homosexuality is a learned behavior and a matter of choice, not a predilection. There is no "pride" in it, nor should it be afforded any measure of dignity. Homosexuality is SIN and in the end it will destroy all who engage in it or stand in its defense. Attempting to explain it away scientifically is simply an attempt to excuse the behavior and marginalize it's shame.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
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#64
Did I miss something here? Did the OP state that he has repented of his sin of sodomy? It really doesn't matter who accepts him and who rejects him. What matters is has he been reconciled to God?

Sit down and read Romans chapter 1 and let me know where the OP stands. Then he can move forward. If he or anyone loves sodomy more than Christ he has very poor prospects for the future.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#65
if homosexual intercourse is a sin (Leviticus) and you staunchly advocate the validity of this teaching, why do you not also advocate the validity of; stoning adulteresses to death (Leviticus); excluding the unclean for a period of time -- unclean being women after childbirth, women on their periods, anyone who touches the skin of a dead pig -- (Leviticus); stoning people caught in the act of gay sex (Leviticus); killing anyone caught worshipping another god other than Yahweh (Leviticus)?
maintaining that perversion is still wicked is not tantamount to enforcing the penalty of the law on the redeemed.
adultery is still a sin. corpses and all dead flesh are still not clean things. idolatry is still abominable. recognizing what is good and what is evil according to Jah's judgement is not carrying out the just condemnation of it by our own hands. judgement is reserved to Him and discernment and understanding are His gifts to us, so that we may walk in His ways and have the righteousness He clothes us with.

He does more than just cover over our lawlessness. He puts in us a new heart with His law inscribed on it.
if we would have a new heart, the old heart must be removed. to cling to that old heart of stone is like ditching the life preserver and trying to drown yourself, batting away the hand that's trying to lift you out of the sea.
 
Dec 24, 2014
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#66
No. Defending homosexuality is a rationalization process by which people attempt to normalize deviant choices that cannot be justified through any psychological exercise. This is simply an attempt to placate a conscience that cannot harmonize the thing one desires and the moral limitations that prohibit the behavior. Homosexuality is not a biological issue, it is a sin issue. It is not socially acceptable behavior, it is a social and moral disgrace. Homosexuality is not an illness nor is it some type of genetic abnormality. It is certainly not engineered biologically at birth. Homosexuals are NOT born gay. This is nothing more than an attempt to appeal to the scientific community and call them as a witness against the defense of scripture to defend this perverted behavior. Homosexuality is a learned behavior and a matter of choice, not a predilection. There is no "pride" in it, nor should it be afforded any measure of dignity. Homosexuality is SIN and in the end it will destroy all who engage in it or stand in its defense. Attempting to explain it away scientifically is simply an attempt to excuse the behavior and marginalize it's shame.
Just answer the question, please and stop hiding from the light of the truth! You are sexually attracted to women, correct? If so, then did that start from the bible, or was it already in you? Did you "choose" to be straight after deep consideration of both sexes? Again the problem is not being gay, but the division and profit off of it. Count it as a loss for Christ!
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
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#68
Just answer the question, please and stop hiding from the light of the truth! You are sexually attracted to women, correct? If so, then did that start from the bible, or was it already in you? Did you "choose" to be straight after deep consideration of both sexes? Again the problem is not being gay, but the division and profit off of it. Count it as a loss for Christ!
The biological, psychological, and physiological attraction between men and women is what scripture calls normal and yes, this is designed by God and is according to created function. Biological attraction between men with men or women with women is not designed by God, it is not natural and is condemned in scripture as a perversion of the created function of sexual attraction.
 
May 3, 2013
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#69
Friend, you Keep giving examples of Pre-Salvation examples. How long did it take them to get saved or did they hang out with Jesus and His disciples FOR YEARS LOOKING TO BE VALIDATED WHILE KEEPING THEIR SIN?

The ONLY thing this man has started this thread for was to COMPLAIN about this Pastor for revoking his membership and not embracing this man's lifestyle.

It's a LIFESTYLE of sin that sends us to Hell and your examples are of those that were instantly saved when faced with The Word of God made flesh.

Not YEARS of looking for validation for his "Lifestyle" from Christians with no sign of coming here or to that Church to be CHANGED ... Years, Brother, Years.


I've said enough -- HE SAID IT ALL in The Word of God.
Let´s suppose a person stops their sexual sins. Will they stop those others?

Am I saved (if saved) for deeds, works, self-righteousness, etc.? Hmm! Surely not.

I do know Pastors whose self-righteousness was a lie when I search inside their HDDs, when giving them PC technical service.

Is it the only sin we see repugnant? Prostitution is repugnant, lying / cheating on and being cheated on, is also repugnant, mostly when it is suffered and witnessed 1st hand.

And I have learnt, the most a thing is disliked, the most of it I had inside to deal with to remove from my life.

Was any of you abused by homosexuals?

Was any here involved in it, any stage or age his/her life?

The judmental approach he also perceived on a forum (here) won´t make it easy to find his healing, I guess.

Yes! Cast your stones over me.
 
Dec 24, 2014
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#70
exactly, lose it!


:D


For whoever wants to save their life will lose it, but whoever loses their life for me will find it.
(Matthew 16:25)
Have you "lost yours" in the sense you are trying to use it!?
 
Oct 30, 2014
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#71
No. Defending homosexuality is a rationalization process by which people attempt to normalize deviant choices that cannot be justified through any psychological exercise.
Homosexuality, though I disagree that it even requires justification, can be justificed biologically and psychologically through numerous studies, observations and experiments. What you really mean to say is that it cannot be justified through any psychological exercise strictly carried out within a Christian paradigm of thought.

As for the assertion that an attempt to normalize deviant behaviours implies the blanket immorality of abnormal behaviour, normality itself is simply an accepted consensus on what is considered typical behaviour, and it has no bearing on a thing's instrinsic moral value unless related to the various circumstances surrounding it. Deviation from normality is not evidence of immorality.

This is simply an attempt to placate a conscience that cannot harmonize the thing one desires and the moral limitations that prohibit the behavior.
There's no cognitive dissonance between my conscience and my opinions on homosexuality. I don't need to placate my conscience on the issue. The only reason a person might suffer cognitive dissonance regarding the issue is if the conscience is conditioned by accepted religious ideals.

Homosexuality is not a biological issue, it is a sin issue.
There certainly are biologial factors. I don't think the biology of homosexulity has to be mutually exclusive against any religious individual's acceptance of the bibilical sinfulness of the behaviour.

It is not socially acceptable behavior, it is a social and moral disgrace.
To you, perhaps. This is again, though an argument from popular opinion, and I can use exactly the same argument in support of homosexuality.

Homosexuality is not an illness nor is it some type of genetic abnormality.
Which scientific research paper did you read that in?

It is certainly not engineered biologically at birth. Homosexuals are NOT born gay.
Geneticists would disagree with you.

This is nothing more than an attempt to appeal to the scientific community and call them as a witness against the defense of scripture to defend this perverted behavior.
Reputable scientists don't attempt such petty and futile endeavours as setting out to attack or disprove the metaphysical by study of the physical world. You might also recognize reputable scientists study these things to find out information about the human body which offers explanations as to the biological reasons for certain hormonal or genetic occurences, not to presuppose conclusions. Facts gleaned from physical experimentation and observation under the scientific method shouldn't make conclusions about metaphysical premises, nor do they in scientific journals. Contrary to your belief, the entire scientific community doesn't revolve around you and your metaphysical beliefs.

Homosexuality is a learned behavior and a matter of choice, not a predilection.
Is heterosexuality?

There is no "pride" in it, nor should it be afforded any measure of dignity.
If you don't afford dignity to others, you don't deserve it afforded to you, but thankfully we live in a society populated by people far more forgiving than that. I have no desire to take away your dignity, even if you are quick to take away someone else's.

Homosexuality is SIN and in the end it will destroy all who engage in it or stand in its defense.
And by that logic your sins (of which we all have many) will destroy you just the same.

Attempting to explain it away scientifically is simply an attempt to excuse the behavior and marginalize it's shame.
''Marginalize its shame''?

Positiing scientific explanations is to posit a scientific explanation. It is an attempt at positing a scientific explanation. Contrary to your opinion, a geneticist doesn't write a paper on the polymorphism evident in the genetic markers of the x-chromosome in gay males to discredit religion, but to relay their scientific discovery. Make of it what you will.
 
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Dec 24, 2014
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#72
The biological, psychological, and physiological attraction between men and women is what scripture calls normal and yes, this is designed by God and is according to created function. Biological attraction between men with men or women with women is not designed by God, it is not natural and is condemned in scripture as a perversion of the created function of sexual attraction.
5 fingers, toes, 2 working arms and legs are "normal" too. If one is born without one or more of these, do you treat him the same as the gay man? All of this stems from faulty teaching, in so much that we do not know what marriage is! It is the Union of the spirit and the flesh. And what God has put together, LET NO MAN TEAR ASUNDER!
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#73
Have you "lost yours" in the sense you are trying to use it!?
i really don't know what you are trying to ask me?

if i was born in the flesh a liar and a thief and adulterer, am i trying to use lies and knavery and fornication to glorify God? am i calling these things "life" at the same time that i take hold of life in Christ?

um, no! good grief, no. i'm not trying to "save" those things i used to call 'life' -- i'm confessing that they are death!
being made a new creation in Him is an actual, literal thing!
taking hold of that, even though my flesh still desires to lie or to steal, do i still consider myself to be a liar or a thief? no! but a new thing that was actually reborn from a body of death. i'm a liar if i say i don't have sin, and i don't have the Truth in me if i think i live in sin any longer.
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
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#74
Homosexuality, though I disagree that it even requires justification, can be justificed biologically and psychologically through numerous studies, observations and experiments. What you really mean to say is that it cannot be justified through any psychological exercise strictly carried out within a Christian paradigm of thought.

As for the assertion that an attempt to normalize deviant behaviours implies the blanket immorality of abnormal behaviour, normality itself is simply an accepted consensus on what is considered typical behaviour, and it has no bearing on a thing's instrinsic moral value unless related to the various circumstances surrounding it. Deviation from normality is not evidence of immorality.



There's no cognitive dissonance between my conscience and my opinions on homosexuality. I don't need to placate my conscience on the issue. The only reason a person might suffer cognitive dissonance regarding the issue is if the conscience is conditioned by accepted religious ideals.



There certainly are biologial factors. I don't think the biology of homosexulity has to be mutually exclusive against any religious individual's acceptance of the bibilical sinfulness of the behaviour.



To you, perhaps. This is again, though an argument from popular opinion, and I can use exactly the same argument in support of homosexuality.



Which scientific research paper did you read that in?



Geneticists would disagree with you.



Reputable scientists don't attempt such petty and futile endeavours as setting out to attack or disprove the metaphysical by study of the physical world. This is conspiracy theory. You might also recognize reputable scientists study these things to find out information about the human body which only offers explanations as to the biological reasons for certain hormonal or genetic occurences. Fats gleaned from physical experimentation and observation under the scientific method fact shouldn't make conclusions about metaphysical premises, nor do they in scientific journals. Contrary to your belief, the entire scientific community doesn't revolve around you and your metaphysical beliefs.



Is heterosexuality?



If you don't afford dignity to others, you don't deserve it afforded to you, but thankfully we live in a society populated by people far more forgiving than that. I have no desire to take away your dignity, even if you are quick to take away someone else's.



And by that logic your sins (of which we all have many) will destroy you just the same.



''Marginalize its shame''?

Positiing scientific explanations is to posit a scientific explanation. It is an attempt at positing a scientific explanation. Contrary to your opinion, a geneticist doesn't write a paper on the polymorphism evident in the genetic markers of the x-chromosome in gay males to discredit religion, but to relay their scientific discovery. Make of it what you will.
What it boils down to is the simple fact that God has condemned it and the scientific community has attempted to justify it biologically. I do not care what scientific "evidence" the collective knowledge of the nine fields of inquiry may claim. The bottom line is that God has said it is sin and he has promised that will hold men accountable for their choices and destroy all who engage in this behavior as well as those who take pleasure in those who do. It simply comes down to which field of epistemology you hold as truth, that of the scientific community or the word of God. I choose the Word of God no matter what claims are made from a human epistemology.
 
C

ChristIsGod

Guest
#75
Hello I have been attending church on an off al my life but recently every Sunday plus bible studies mid week and other weekend convenctions for about 5 years, however I am also gay I "know" what the bible says about this, but I love going to church and reading the bible.

I recently told the pastor I was gay I didn't want to mislead the church, I wanted to be honest so they accepted me for who I am not who they think I am. He told me I could no longer be a member or have any leaderships rolls in the church I understand and accept all that how ever one comment he made upset me and now I never want to go back to church the comment was being gay is no different to people who sleep around. I have never done that, you don't have to be gay to sleep around. my question is this normal reaction, Will I find a church that is wiling to accept me knowing I am gay?



Just in case people read this awfully Fast.... emphasis mine.

WHERE is the desire to live a Biblical Christian life?

Do you see ANY appeal/desire/asking for help to CHANGE?

Do you need to read his Other Posts here over these last 2 yrs - 8+ mo.s? You should!

http://christianchat.com/search.php?searchid=844493


Member - "Servant_of_GOD" - you are Not!

A servant of The Word of God made flesh is a servant of The Word of God that is written!

The Epistles of John are talking about a "LIFESTYLE" of sin and so is Paul in these verses ...

1Co 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
1Co 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
1Co 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

If after 5 yrs attending any Church, I told the Pastor that I want to be honest and ACCEPTED though I've lived a life of adultery against my husband and have no plans to stop .... what should he do with me ... keep up my voting-membership? Trust me around other men? Pat me on the back and say, he accepts that because we're all sinners and I can keep my lifestyle of sin?

What is said on this thread and the others that are in his Posting History will affect every person that is "STRUGGLING" with these sins ... and you and others are telling us that this man is saved or that we should condone this LIFESTYLE against ALL that IS WRITTEN in The Word of God written BY The Word of God Made Flesh?!

You are not a Servant of God, you spurn His Word, and now you're the one that needs help by that Word.

We've had others here that have confessed in order to be helped out of a lifestyle of damnable sin --- but this man is not here looking for that - AT ALL! He stated plainly what he's here for and almost got it .... and in previous thread posts as well ... but who looks at Histories when just shooting off replies?



Jude 1:22 And of some have compassion, making a difference:
Jude 1:23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.
 
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oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
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#76
5 fingers, toes, 2 working arms and legs are "normal" too. If one is born without one or more of these, do you treat him the same as the gay man? All of this stems from faulty teaching, in so much that we do not know what marriage is! It is the Union of the spirit and the flesh. And what God has put together, LET NO MAN TEAR ASUNDER!
Obviously you do not care what God and said on this matter. God has NOT joined men or women together in perversion. Man has joined men and women in perversion. Do not attempt to attribute this to God.
 
Oct 30, 2014
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#77
What it boils down to is the simple fact that God has condemned it and the scientific community has attempted to justify it biologically.
This is like saying we try to justify achondroplasia biologically. Biological science doesn't make conclusions about the ethical merits of homosexuality.

I do not care what scientific "evidence" the collective knowledge of the nine fields of inquiry may claim. The bottom line is that God has said it is sin and he has promised that will hold men accountable for their choices and destroy all who engage in this behavior as well as those who take pleasure in those who do.
If you don't care, we don't care.

It simply comes down to which field of epistemology you hold as truth, that of the scientific community or the word of God. I choose the Word of God no matter what claims are made from a human epistemology.
I don't think they're mutually exclusive. Being able to explain the biological reasons for homosexuality has no bearing on my ability not to engage in gay sex.
 
Dec 24, 2014
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#78
i really don't know what you are trying to ask me?

if i was born in the flesh a liar and a thief and adulterer, am i trying to use lies and knavery and fornication to glorify God? am i calling these things "life" at the same time that i take hold of life in Christ?

um, no! good grief, no. i'm not trying to "save" those things i used to call 'life' -- i'm confessing that they are death!
being made a new creation in Him is an actual, literal thing!
taking hold of that, even though my flesh still desires to lie or to steal, do i still consider myself to be a liar or a thief? no! but a new thing that was actually reborn from a body of death. i'm a liar if i say i don't have sin, and i don't have the Truth in me if i think i live in sin any longer.
By separating the gay man for being gay, you show your hate for him in you heart thus making you a murderer. Christ died while you were still a sinner. If a man kills my wife and I FORGIVE him, what written law against killing can harm him? That is the difference between the flesh and the Spirit! You have the power to FORGIVE. After all, we are the law makers.
 
Dec 1, 2014
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#79
Hmmm, this thread started 10 hours ago and after the initial post, its been nothing but fighting between members here with not a single peep out of the originator of this thread.

Is someone laughing at all this bickering? :confused:
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
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#80
This is like saying we try to justify achondroplasia biologically.



If you don't care, we don't care.



I don't think they're mutually exclusive. Being able to explain the biological reasons for homosexuality has no bearing on my ability not to engage in gay sex.
Then you have not learned the lessons of man's violation of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and how this presents two opposing epistemological approaches to how one determines what is true.