gays and heaven

[Donkeyfish07]

Noone said it was. The bible clearly says homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom of Heaven. Those are God's words. Not mans.

What the Bible actually says about homosexuals is this.

""If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them." What the Bible says about the Sabbath

"Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people."

My only point is, if you sin at all.....your no better off than a homosexual. I still sin, and I'm no better off than a homosexual.

James 2:10

"For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all."

Homosexuality is one point. Adultery is one point. Stealing is one Point. Bearing false witness is one point. Etc...

None of us can keep the law in it's entirety, if we could do it on our own......we wouldn't need Jesus would we?

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

Yes, it's true the Bible doesn't speak of "being gay" but only of people who commit homosexual acts with relation to homosexuality. It's the commission of homosexual acts the Bible condemns, not the propensity for temptation of a specific sexual sin. In terms of imagery the Bible does not have the category “homosexuality,” but rather “homosexual behavior” or “homosexual acts.” This idea of homosexuality as an “identity” is a modern liberal construction.

i think if they hate the sin they are committing and genuinely try to repent and stop it, even if feeling hopeless for perhaps years, but it's a constant struggle, then i think they will go to heaven. i think pastors who preach homosexuality is ok and use the word of God in such a way that it becomes allowable to be homosexual and those who practice the act remain bound in that sin with no conscience about it, or no signs of hating it, or no signs of even wanting to quit, may need to examine themselves and worry if they are really saved to begin with.

the Holy Spirit would convict them. we all sin, we all struggle with sins specific to us. when we beat one sin, we are convicted and shown another. it's a never-ending process. willful sins, with lack of conviction is a sign of not being saved to begin with. being gay will not prevent entry into heaven in my opinion, if the person struggles with it and in their heart truly battle against it and hate it (even if they indulge in it at times). those who embrace it in their hearts with no repentance may be in danger of losing their souls.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

I'd rather live next to someone who gets an occasional speeding ticket than someone who murders people. While scripture is clear that all are sinners there is a differentiation of consequence and punishment both in this life and for those who perish also the next.

"For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all."

 

[Donkeyfish07]

I'd rather live next to someone who gets an occasional speeding ticket than someone who murders people. While scripture is clear that all are sinners there is a differentiation of consequence and punishment both in this life and for those who perish also the next.

There isn't a categorized list anywhere. Paul is an apostle yet he murdered people before he was saved. All I'm saying is, God's grace can save ANYBODY. Calling homosexuality a sin is one thing, it obviously is....Saying all homosexuals go to hell is another thing. It is not our place to say that God never has mercy on a homosexual ever.

 

[ForthAngel]

Yes, it's true the Bible doesn't speak of "being gay" but only of people who commit homosexual acts with relation to homosexuality. It's the commission of homosexual acts the Bible condemns, not the propensity for temptation of a specific sexual sin. In terms of imagery the Bible does not have the category “homosexuality,” but rather “homosexual behavior” or “homosexual acts.” This idea of homosexuality as an “identity” is a modern liberal construction.

eh. i don't differentiate the two. if someone is gay, chances are they are also committing a homosexual act at some point or another, either outwardly or in their heart. repentance was my main point. either way, their sin is no better or worse than mine. repentance is key and is one of the biggest focuses of Jesus' ministry.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

I alluded to that on page 1: http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/57906-gays-heaven.html#post913713 but you brought specific clarity here in response to my clarification of your previous post. We're on the same page. Our posts are simply providing clarity to each other. Reminds me of Proverbs 27:17.

There isn't a categorized list anywhere. Paul is an apostle yet he murdered people before he was saved. All I'm saying is, God's grace can save ANYBODY. Calling homosexuality a sin is one thing, it obviously is....Saying all homosexuals go to hell is another thing. It is not our place to say that God never has mercy on a homosexual ever.

 

[tdrew777]

We must sincerely repent - turn from - all sin. But we can not forsake a sin forever by making a decision to repent. Later (thirty seconds later?) we will have to decide anew if we are going to indulge that particular sin. I am not the judge if someone's original repentance was sincere if they later fall into sin. I can not acquit the Lonnie Frisbees because I can not judge them either. We who have believed, who then fall into sin, have an advocate with the Father.

"Homosexuality" is never listed as a sin.
I Cor 6:9 Or know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with men, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

BOTH homosexual behaviors and heterosexual behaviors are listed as sin. There are more heterosexual than homosexual behaviors condemned. In that sense, heterosexuals will be barred from the kingdom of heaven before homosexuals. We are not to be "hetero/homo-sexual" but "spouse-sexual" or eunuch-hearted. (We are in such times as requires me to remind everyone that spouses are opposite gender.) Those who fall from that standard, even in the recesses of our hearts, will be shut out from the Kingdom of Heaven. Thanks be to God that Christ is my righteousness. And my heart-felt goal, my eternal destiny, my sure hope is that I will one day live up to that holy sexual standard.

 

[RickyZ]

The Bible from front to back is a laundry list of things God doesn't want me to do - for my own good mind you. If I as a human do any one of them I've wronged God and need to atone for it. But I have nothing to atone with, save for the loss of my very soul. And so the one and only thing I can do to get back in His good graces is to accept His Son's sacrifice as atonement for ALL that I've done - and will do - against Him as a human.

And that's where it lies. Gay people who in their hearts minds and souls have accepted the sacrifice of Christ will get into 'heaven'.

From there, Jesus says He will judge, then reward or punish us, according to all that we have done and stored up in Him here and now. A Christian who willfully continues to sin will be judged and punished, not by hell but by something very similar. One who fights and against and is remorseful for the sins of their humanity will be rewarded. And one who ignores the word of God and denies such activities as being against God doesn't truly have their hearts minds and souls wrapped around the sacrifice of Christ

 

[schoolofyoungprophet]

What the Bible actually says about homosexuals is this.

""If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them." What the Bible says about the Sabbath

"Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people."

My only point is, if you sin at all.....your no better off than a homosexual. I still sin, and I'm no better off than a homosexual.

James 2:10

"For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all."

Homosexuality is one point. Adultery is one point. Stealing is one Point. Bearing false witness is one point. Etc...

None of us can keep the law in it's entirety, if we could do it on our own......we wouldn't need Jesus would we?

Do u know what regeneration means?

 

[rachelsedge]

I'd rather live next to someone who gets an occasional speeding ticket than someone who murders people. While scripture is clear that all are sinners there is a differentiation of consequence and punishment both in this life and for those who perish also the next.

Yes, but the question isn't "Who would you rather live by?" I think we can all agree that sins have different consequences and "extremes" here on earth, but in God's eyes (as others have said), sin is sin. One sin, no matter how "big" or "small" we might deem it to be, seperates us from God. I don't think that being gay automatically condemns you to hell with no chance of being saved. God says anyone who calls on His name will be saved. Does this mean that their struggles with homosexuality (or being an alcoholic, or porn, or cutting, etc.) will simply disappear? No. There are some temptations that Christians will struggle with for the rest of their life. But I think there is a major difference between "struggling" with something and "practicing" it. Whether or not "practicing" homosexuals who say they are Christians (because one of my friend's brothers is like this) go to heaven is not up to me.

 

[Elizabeth619]

What the Bible actually says about homosexuals is this.

""If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them." What the Bible says about the Sabbath

"Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people."

My only point is, if you sin at all.....your no better off than a homosexual. I still sin, and I'm no better off than a homosexual.

James 2:10

"For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all."

Homosexuality is one point. Adultery is one point. Stealing is one Point. Bearing false witness is one point. Etc...

None of us can keep the law in it's entirety, if we could do it on our own......we wouldn't need Jesus would we?

I understand what the bible says. However the thread topic was about homosexuality. Not adultery, stealing and so on. If the topic was about other sins I would have touched in that. It wasn't. The OP only mentioned homosexuality.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

It's weird when people reframe what I already said beginning with a but. It makes them look like they are disagreeing with me when they are simply reiterating what I already said.

Yes, but the question isn't "Who would you rather live by?" I think we can all agree that sins have different consequences and "extremes" here on earth, but in God's eyes (as others have said), sin is sin. One sin, no matter how "big" or "small" we might deem it to be, seperates us from God. I don't think that being gay automatically condemns you to hell with no chance of being saved. God says anyone who calls on His name will be saved. Does this mean that their struggles with homosexuality (or being an alcoholic, or porn, or cutting, etc.) will simply disappear? No. There are some temptations that Christians will struggle with for the rest of their life. But I think there is a major difference between "struggling" with something and "practicing" it. Whether or not "practicing" homosexuals who say they are Christians (because one of my friend's brothers is like this) go to heaven is not up to me.

 

[rachelsedge]

It's weird when people reframe what I already said beginning with a but. It makes them look like they are disagreeing with me when they are simply reiterating what I already said.

I think it's because your statement is about what you prefer here on earth (living next to someone who got a speed ticket than someone who murders) when the question is about more about Heaven.

I agree with you. I'd rather live by someone who told their best friend a white lie than a serial killer. But the question isn't about who I'd rather live by. It's asking whether certain sins ultimately keep you from Heaven.

Perhaps I just read your post wrong.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

Posts, not post. Reading the posts a person makes in a thread provides a much better picture as to their position than simply reading the last post and then reframing what they already said in a previous post in response to their last post. Lol... whatever. We're on the same page.

I think it's because your statement is about what you prefer here on earth (living next to someone who got a speed ticket than someone who murders) when the question is about more about Heaven.

I agree with you. I'd rather live by someone who told their best friend a white lie than a serial killer. But the question isn't about who I'd rather live by. It's asking whether certain sins ultimately keep you from Heaven.

Perhaps I just read your post wrong.

 

[HEIsRiSen]

Yes, it's true the Bible doesn't speak of "being gay" but only of people who commit homosexual acts with relation to homosexuality. It's the commission of homosexual acts the Bible condemns, not the propensity for temptation of a specific sexual sin. In terms of imagery the Bible does not have the category “homosexuality,” but rather “homosexual behavior” or “homosexual acts.” This idea of homosexuality as an “identity” is a modern liberal construction.

Well said.

 

[Relena7]

I'm sure most of you noticed, but this entire thread is hugely hypocritical in many ways.
Just saying...

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

I haven't noticed. Perhaps you can enlighten us. How is this entire thread hypocritical in many ways?

I'm sure most of you noticed, but this entire thread is hugely hypocritical in many ways.
Just saying...

 

[rachelsedge]

Posts, not post. Reading the posts a person makes in a thread provides a much better picture as to their position than simply reading the last post and then reframing what they already said in a previous post in response to their last post. Lol... whatever. We're on the same page.

I did read all your posts. I think where I'm being mistaken is that really only the first sentence of my original post was directed at you. The rest was directed at the thread in general, but since I included it in the same paragraph, it seemed I was disagreeing with you.

Ha, but yeah, we're on the same page.

Edited: I agree with you AgeofKnowledge, that being gay isn't your sole identity. People who have temptations to drink aren't automatically labeled an "alcoholic".

 

[Relena7]

I haven't noticed. Perhaps you can enlighten us. How is this entire thread hypocritical in many ways?

You are all focusing so hard on gays and discussing whether or not they can get into heaven. But none of the people involved in this discussion are perfect.

It doesn't seem like our place to judge. We don't know the hearts of every gay person alive.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

My goodness Rachel. Was the original Rachel this assertive? Well... yes she was. And what she received for her assertiveness was to be made part of the very linage of Christ and God's plan of salvation for the entire world! That's quite an accomplishment. You go girl.