Genesis 1:26 & 27 revisited, the ECHAD of God as ONE.

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101G

Banned
Apr 1, 2021
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#41
Now back to God, and him being the ECHAD of himself to come.

Understand Genesis 1:26 & 27 clearly debunk any notion of God being three person, for what the Lord Jesus said in Matthews 19:4 put that notion of any two or more person at Genesi 1:1 or genesis 1:26 & 27 to rest. for the Lord Jesus cannot lie.

as I have before, the Son of God the Christ, was not at Genesis 1:1, but Jesus was.

now this is the dilemma that is faceing many, what the Lord Jesus said in Matthews 19:4 must be resolved.

if any have any answers, please post them so that we may examine them.

PICJAG,
101G.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
36,116
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#42
... in the making of Man in Genesis 3, he had no blood, only at Genesis 6 did God give blood to the male and the female.
:oops:

I see no verses to support what you are saying here...
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
36,116
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113
#44
in the making of Man in Genesis 3, he had no blood, only at Genesis 6 did God give blood to the male and the female.
:oops:

I see no verses to support what you are saying here...
In fact, the life of the flesh is in the blood.

There is zero evidence that flesh never had blood.
 

101G

Banned
Apr 1, 2021
295
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#45
If I can't quite grasp the technicalities of truth, I can fall back upon the overall "image" or "picture" of truth. Which is how we very basically begin to learn when we're very young. Associating images with concepts. I marvel at that so that there is some level of understanding for each and every believer regardless of their intellectual abilities.

So while I don't know the meaning of every Hebrew word in the old testament, I do know and glean from what the prophets have said.

Isaiah 40:10 Behold, the Lord GOD will come with strong hand, and his arm shall rule for him: behold, his reward is with him, and his work before him.

I remember the teaching that Jesus sat down at the right hand of his father in heaven. So, the above verse is telling me that Jesus is coming and he's bringing his (his reward as well as our own) reward with him, all the heavenly host (his reward) and his work of judgment and wrath yet before him. (Our reward.)

God's strong hand or arm is still part of his body, so I get the concept of a united single unified God.
first thanks for the reply, correct, picture image is good when one can see the object of concern. but God is abstract in nature, untill he took on flesh.

the ARM of GOD is a good example, a picture, a IMAGE of God's POWER. lets examine it.

The arm of flesh vs The Arm of the LORD, “authority”
2 Chronicles 32:7 "Be strong and courageous, be not afraid nor dismayed for the king of Assyria, nor for all the multitude that is with him: for there be more with us than with him: 8 With him is an arm of flesh; but with us is the LORD our God to help us, and to fight our battles. And the people rested themselves upon the words of Hezekiah king of Judah".

one of the failing prompts of the Unitarians, JW belief, and others in Doctrine, is this. they say, "Jesus is not God", and one of there excuses, "he could do nothing of himself", John 8:28 "Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things”.

as the "the ARM of God", he was not authorized to act alone. this is clear as with the Assyrian army, (the ARM of Flesh). no army act alone, or on their own power. not even our, the American Army, just get up and go to war with another country without authorization from the commander in chief, or congress. just as my own arm don't wave unless I authorized it to wave. the head gives direction to the body. this is explained in the understanding of the use of POWER, the G1411 dunamis, and the G1849 exousia. just as the Army can do nothing of their own so do the Lord Jesus, he don't act alone. (he is our EXAMPLE), hence one of the reason why he was in G2758 keno, (to abase, neutralize, or make of none effect). but at his baptism he was authorized with G1849 exousia to act in the NAME of God, who doth the work. as to forgive sin, heal the sick, raise the dead, and so on..... as said, he is our example of how the G1849 exousia works. and that's why we, as 1 John 3:2a which states, "now we're the Sons of God". because we was not, before, sons of God with Power. by default we was the son of the evil one. our Lord Jesus having the NATURE, (see Phil 2:5) of God. yes, HAVING, is BEING IN THE FORM of God, having his nature, he took on our humanity. so that as the "KINSMAN" redeemer in flesh and blood he then could give that BLOOD, which is the LIFE of the flesh, (see Lev 17:11), and redeem man from sin. this is the "OBJECTIVE" of God, his plan, and his will. and “BEING” in that flesh he carried out his plan of salvation for Man. again his "OWN" arm brought salvation unto him, (see Isaiah 63:5). so that answers the “if Christ is God, how come he could do nothing of himself”. another excuse vanquish, and laid to the side. the Lord Jesus is the SHARED Spirit IN FLESH AND BONE, THAT IS A NUMERICIAL DIFFERENCE, meaning in concrete form. this is the reference in 2 Chronicles 32 an "ARM" of Flesh as the ARMY of the invading king of Assyria.

so in conclusion, the ARM of God is God, shared in flesh, as the "ANOTHER" of himself, as man, (the arm of flesh)... (smile), God's army of ONE.. so we can see from the example, our Lord the ordinal Last was the "ARM of FLESH", who did God's will.

now this example answers a whole lot of bibical question, like for example, why the Lord Jesus could do nothing of himself, or why he prayed not "TO" but pray the Father, and not "TO". but in intercessory only. and it also answer why the Father is GREATER... oh so much to learn.

PICJAG,
101G.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
14,288
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#46
Who'd of thought this topic would be so controversial on a Christian message board?
Christian message boards are targeted by (1) unbelievers, (2) heretics, (3) cultists, and (4) atheists. So everything becomes controversial.

The OP is trying to refute the Bible doctrine of the triune Godhead. Which is an ancient heresy that has gained a lot of popularity recently.
 

101G

Banned
Apr 1, 2021
295
61
28
#47
:oops:

I see no verses to support what you are saying here...
first thanks for the reply, second, let show it to you. understand Chapter 2 is a detaile account of chapter1.

Genesis 1:9 "And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so."
Genesis 1:10 "And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good."
Genesis 1:11 "And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so."
Genesis 1:12 "And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good."
Genesis 1:13 "And the evening and the morning were the third day."

this is the third DAY, correct..... and on day three trees, and grass, was brought forth correct? NOW THIS,

Genesis 2:4 "These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,"
Genesis 2:5 "And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground."
Genesis 2:6 "But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground."
Genesis 2:7 "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."

here's the UNDERSTANDING, "BEFORE", see it in verse 5 .... BEFORE the plants, BEFORE the grass and herbs grew, God formed MAN, verse 7.

remember in chapter 1 the plants, herbs, and the Grass was made on day #3. and in the detailed account in chapter "BEFORE" the plants, and Herbs, and Grass grew, (which was day 3), before this God Formed Man. remember it had not yet rained, but god caised a MIST to come, and he formed man.

now another Note, as Man was "BEFORE" the Plants and grass, he Man was "BEFORE" the Animals. listen,
Genesis 2:18 "And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him."
Genesis 2:19 "And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof."
Genesis 2:20 "And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him."

NOTICE verse 19, " and every fowl of the air". you been taught that man was made on day 6 right, well let the bible teach you. in verse 19 above, it said, "and every fowl of the air" .... right.... right... lets see when the FOWL of the air was made,

Genesis 1:20 "And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven."
Genesis 1:21 "And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good."
Genesis 1:22 "And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth."
Genesis 1:23 "And the evening and the morning were the fifth day."

inverse 20 and verse 21 EVERY FOWL was made on DAY ....... 5 Uh O and God formed them and brought them unto Adam to see if they was a help meet to him..... well DAY 5 come before DAY 6. so Adam was here before DAY 5 because every winged fowl
was made on DAY 5. what do that tell you?.... you been lied to. please re-read it for yourself.

see, this is why one must read with the Holy Spirit for he will guide us in all TRUTH.

hope this help,
PICJAG,
101G.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
36,116
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113
#48
first thanks for the reply, second, let show it to you. understand Chapter 2 is a detaile account of chapter1.

Genesis 1:9 "And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so."
Genesis 1:10 "And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good."
Genesis 1:11 "And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so."
Genesis 1:12 "And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good."
Genesis 1:13 "And the evening and the morning were the third day."

this is the third DAY, correct..... and on day three trees, and grass, was brought forth correct? NOW THIS,

Genesis 2:4 "These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,"
Genesis 2:5 "And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground."
Genesis 2:6 "But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground."
Genesis 2:7 "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."

here's the UNDERSTANDING, "BEFORE", see it in verse 5 .... BEFORE the plants, BEFORE the grass and herbs grew, God formed MAN, verse 7.

remember in chapter 1 the plants, herbs, and the Grass was made on day #3. and in the detailed account in chapter "BEFORE" the plants, and Herbs, and Grass grew, (which was day 3), before this God Formed Man. remember it had not yet rained, but god caised a MIST to come, and he formed man.

now another Note, as Man was "BEFORE" the Plants and grass, he Man was "BEFORE" the Animals. listen,
Genesis 2:18 "And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him."
Genesis 2:19 "And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof."
Genesis 2:20 "And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him."

NOTICE verse 19, " and every fowl of the air". you been taught that man was made on day 6 right, well let the bible teach you. in verse 19 above, it said, "and every fowl of the air" .... right.... right... lets see when the FOWL of the air was made,

Genesis 1:20 "And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven."
Genesis 1:21 "And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good."
Genesis 1:22 "And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth."
Genesis 1:23 "And the evening and the morning were the fifth day."

inverse 20 and verse 21 EVERY FOWL was made on DAY ....... 5 Uh O and God formed them and brought them unto Adam to see if they was a help meet to him..... well DAY 5 come before DAY 6. so Adam was here before DAY 5 because every winged fowl
was made on DAY 5. what do that tell you?.... you been lied to. please re-read it for yourself.

see, this is why one must read with the Holy Spirit for he will guide us in all TRUTH.

hope this help,
PICJAG,
101G.
NONE of that says there was no blood in flesh.

Not a hint, implication, nor insinuation of such a thing.

Nada. Zero. Zilch.
 

101G

Banned
Apr 1, 2021
295
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#49
NONE of that says there was no blood in flesh.

Not a hint, implication, nor insinuation of such a thing.
excuse me, .. let get to your question with the answer, Genesis 2:21 "And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;"
Genesis 2:22 "And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man."
Genesis 2:23 "And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man."

OK, where is the "Blood" of MY Blood?

PICJAG,
101G.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
36,116
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#50
excuse me, .. let get to your question with the answer, Genesis 2:21 "And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;"
Genesis 2:22 "And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man."
Genesis 2:23 "And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man."

OK, where is the "Blood" of MY Blood?

PICJAG,
101G.
Building an argument on silence is generally not considered a good idea.

And there is still: the life of the flesh is in the blood.

That is explicitly stated.

For the life of every creature is its blood: its blood is its life.
 

101G

Banned
Apr 1, 2021
295
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#51
Who'd of thought this topic would be so controversial on a Christian message board?
TRUE, and i agree, but the TIME is right for the TRUTH. so many has been mislead that they seek the TRUTH.

PICJAG,
101G.
 

101G

Banned
Apr 1, 2021
295
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#52
Building an argument on silence is generally not considered a good idea.

And there is still: the life of the flesh is in the blood.

That is explicitly stated.

For the life of every creature is its blood: its blood is its life.
thank you, I AGREE. my question to you, is this, do not BLOOD FORM in the bone? yes, but do it form in an instance or over night? NO, for EVE was not a BABY but a fully Grown WOMAN/ Person, with FLESH and BONE, but Blood has to be form from the BONES correct? well Eve was Given Blood as the Man was for neither had any. that's why Adam said, "bone of my bone, and flesh of my fleh". but he did not say "blood of my blood", for he had none to Give.

thanks for the reply and question.

PICJAG,
101g
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
36,116
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#53
thank you, I AGREE. my question to you, is this, do not BLOOD FORM in the bone? yes, but do it form in an instance or over night? NO, for EVE was not a BABY but a fully Grown WOMAN/ Person, with FLESH and BONE, but Blood has to be form from the BONES correct? well Eve was Given Blood as the Man was for neither had any. that's why Adam said, "bone of my bone, and flesh of my fleh". but he did not say "blood of my blood", for he had none to Give.

thanks for the reply and question.

PICJAG,
101g
There is no Scriptural evidence to support your theory.

You may as well say Adam was formed with no heart.

You know? Since the purpose of the heart is to pump blood.

And the blood carries the oxygen which is necessary to sustain physical life also.

The body’s cells and tissues depend on ongoing supplies of oxygen to carry
out the essential chemical processes that keep the body running smoothly.
 

Platosgal

Active member
Mar 17, 2020
260
167
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#54
My point was that all we are now is sprung forth from the “logos” that is our DNA. We are essentially a Big Bang. I don’t subscribe to evolution but I this this metaphor is interesting. All of the cells and chemicals that make us whole operate unto themselves yet in concert under an unseen frequency maintaining balance. The original egg and sperm, created ALL exclusively.
Pretty Cool!
 

101G

Banned
Apr 1, 2021
295
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#55
There is no Scriptural evidence to support your theory.

You may as well say Adam was formed with no heart.

You know? Since the purpose of the heart is to pump blood.

And the blood carries the oxygen which is necessary to sustain physical life also.
WHY say that? did you not READ? Genesis 1:26 "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."

well what was GOD IMAGE? let the bible tell us, 1 Peter 1:19 "But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:"
1 Peter 1:20 "Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,"

well well well now, the blood was foreordained to come? are we sure, lets the bible speak, Romans 5:14 "Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come."
that word "Figure" there is IMAGE, now Magenta, did the Lord Jesus have blood? Oh so that means he had a HEART to pumb the blood that was made in the Bone, (during the 9 month in the womb), that gave life to the flesh. Oh! what a coincident ... (smile). hey, just having a little fun.... but this is what this topice is all about, to LEARN the TRUTH, and to do that, one must "ASK" question.


did that help?

PICJAG,
101G.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
36,116
13,439
113
#56
The body's circulatory system also carries nutrients, and is responsible for
WHY say that? did you not READ? Genesis 1:26 "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."

well what was GOD IMAGE? let the bible tell us, 1 Peter 1:19 "But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:"
1 Peter 1:20 "Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,"

well well well now, the blood was foreordained to come? are we sure, lets the bible speak, Romans 5:14 "Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come."
that word "Figure" there is IMAGE, now Magenta, did the Lord Jesus have blood? Oh so that means he had a HEART to pumb the blood that was made in the Bone, (during the 9 month in the womb), that gave life to the flesh. Oh! what a coincident ... (smile). hey, just having a little fun.... but this is what this topice is all about, to LEARN the TRUTH, and to do that, one must "ASK" question.


did that help?

PICJAG,
101G.
Your argument is that Adam and Eve had no blood in their bodies.

Why then, would they have hearts? And how then could their bodies be sustained by blood carrying
oxygen and necessary nutrients to provide the body? Surely you acknowledge they ate food?
 

101G

Banned
Apr 1, 2021
295
61
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#57
The body's circulatory system also carries nutrients, and is responsible for

Your argument is that Adam and Eve had no blood in their body.

Why then, would they have hearts? And how then could their bodies be sustained by blood carrying
oxygen and necessary nutrients to provide the body? Surely you acknowledge they ate food?
did you not understand my previous post? the same reason why the Lord Jesus had Blood, in order to have a heart.

sin was coming, and God already made preparation.

but may I ask you before you get there, did not our Lord Jesus eat and drink and did not have blood in his resurrected body?

see, blood is only tempory, and man did sin, and he gave him blood, scripture, Leviticus 17:11 "For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul."

so do man really need blood to live... in this NATURAL life, yes, but if without SIN?.

but as said, our Lord who was resurrected did not have blood, just as Adam in the beginning did not have blood, listen,
Luke 24:39 "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have."

ok, where is the BLOOD?

just as in the beginning, Genesis 2:23 "And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man."

again I ask, where is the the BLOOD of MY Blood? so that should put an end to that.

PICJAG,
101G.
 

101G

Banned
Apr 1, 2021
295
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#58
Now, may we get back to the topic at hand, as was in Post #41 and it's implication.

PICJAG,
101G.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
30,810
10,119
113
#59
When I looked up the verse in Strong’s Bible “Everlasting Father” was just translated void of father. Was it added to propagate that Jesus is the Father, without Isaiah actually saying it?

Everlasting Father,
אֲבִיעַ֖ד (’ă·ḇî·‘aḏ)
Noun - proper - masculine singular
Strong's Hebrew 5703: 1) perpetuity, for ever, continuing future 1a) ancient (of past time) 1b) for ever (of future time) 1b1) of continuous existence 1c) for ever (of God's existence)
it seems this is a footnote in a Hebrew Bible, which i wasn't able to find the original source of, but this is quoted in a few hermeneutical discussions i found online:
אֲבִיעַד (aviad): phrase consisting of the noun אֲבִי in the construct state, meaning "father of," and עַד, meaning "eternity." Altogether, literally meaning "father of eternity," but understood as "eternal father."
so when you look up Strong's 5703 you're just getting a listing for the root word "ad". in Isaiah 9:6 it's that root word meaning "eternal/eternity" plus a prefix "abi-" that means 'father' --- abi-ad, Everlasting Father

want to point out that i don't know Hebrew. i just know how to look for answers to questions ;)
 

Hungry

Senior Member
Nov 26, 2012
2,636
843
113
#60
it seems this is a footnote in a Hebrew Bible, which i wasn't able to find the original source of, but this is quoted in a few hermeneutical discussions i found online:
אֲבִיעַד (aviad): phrase consisting of the noun אֲבִי in the construct state, meaning "father of," and עַד, meaning "eternity." Altogether, literally meaning "father of eternity," but understood as "eternal father."
so when you look up Strong's 5703 you're just getting a listing for the root word "ad". in Isaiah 9:6 it's that root word meaning "eternal/eternity" plus a prefix "abi-" that means 'father' --- abi-ad, Everlasting Father

want to point out that i don't know Hebrew. i just know how to look for answers to questions ;)
Awesome thanks! Can you deduce from this it is saying, Christ (the child born) is or isn’t Jehovah? That is the question.