Genesis 3:16 He will rule over you.

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Mar 23, 2016
7,021
1,673
113
#61
That approach is unusual. Many police officers are trained in the "Duluth Model" which teaches that women are never the abusers. The injustice resulting from that is profound.
I used to work for an attorney who practiced family law. We had one client who was in the military ... tall ... in shape. His wife beat him. I don't know how long he had withstood her physical assaults on him but he finally decided it was better for him to get a divorce from her because he was afraid that one time he would respond by hitting her back. I guess he finally had enough.

Tough, too, because they had kids. Sad for kids to be in situations like that ...



 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#64
No. In some cases like this, I just like to help people see the other points of view (when Scripture permits)
And which POV is that? Seemed a rather odd comment to what I said....
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
9,164
1,794
113
#65
I have a lot of clover and I trim it halfway down with the weed wacker. It tends to grow in patches.
Clover mixed with just a bit of early spring dandelions taste great if stirfried with the proper seasoning.
 

Diakonos

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2019
1,381
434
83
31
Anacortes, WA
#67
I haven't come to a conclusion about that yet. One one hand, Jesus refused the Gaul because He felt it necessary to experience all the wrath of God for our sins. If He accepted it, we would have called it "Gaulgotha" haha. Anyways....on the other hand, we are supposed to to "be sober-minded" and not be under the dominion of things that grow from the earth. So I'm still wrestling with it
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#68
The Bible does teach wives submit to their husbands and to follow Sarah's example who obeyed Abraham calling him lord-- which implies a wife's submission should include obedience to her husband. The Bible tells wives to fear/reverence their husbands. The Bible commands husbands to love their wives as Christ loved the church, and to honor the wife as the weaker vessel that their prayers be not hindered.
The feminists have programmed people to associate Biblical teachings on wives submitting to their husbands with violence.
Well since you went there... It would be an opinion to say feminists have caused these issues. But, since I apparently like to pull the pin and see what happens in the BDF, I'd render a different opinion. My opinion is that many Christian men have a horrific misunderstanding of what "submit"means. And many women have suffered much abuse because of it.


Domestic violence is a problem for those who experience it, of course. But apparently, there is some data indicating that about 40% of it is female on male, and female on male violence is under reported because what man is going to call the police and tell them his wife is hitting him.
According to the National Domestic Hotline:
3 in 10 women (29%) and 1 in 10 men (10%) in the US have experienced rape, physical violence and/or stalking by a partner



1 in 4 women (24.3%) and 1 in 7 men (13.8%) aged 18 and older in the United States have been the victim of severe physical violence by an intimate partner in their lifetime.


Some of their models of domestic abuse include relatively normal male behaviors and even quoting scripture about the roles of wives in the home, as if it were immoral or abusive to do so.
Not sure what you'd consider normal male behavior. And it could be abusive mentally if submission is used in the wrong context.


The Bible does teach wives submit to their husbands and to follow Sarah's example who obeyed Abraham calling him lord-- which implies a wife's submission should include obedience to her husband. The Bible tells wives to fear/reverence their husbands. The Bible commands husbands to love their wives as Christ loved the church, and to honor the wife as the weaker vessel that their prayers be not hindered.
Again, it depends on the word submission and obedience. Fear? Not a word that should be used, there are better more appropriate translations than that.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#69
Before the tubal ligation performed without anesthesia?
Missing the point. If a woman is not suppose to take meds for suffering in childbirth then men should not use any equipment to do their jobs. We'll all go back to OT living before tractors, trucks and machines. That was the comparison I was making in a tongue in cheek way. But I've been jumped twice already. Which tells me something...
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,489
13,797
113
#70
I haven't come to a conclusion about that yet. One one hand, Jesus refused the Gaul because He felt it necessary to experience all the wrath of God for our sins. If He accepted it, we would have called it "Gaulgotha" haha. Anyways....on the other hand, we are supposed to to "be sober-minded" and not be under the dominion of things that grow from the earth. So I'm still wrestling with it
The word is "gall". Gaul is a region of West-central Europe in the time of the Roman empire. :)
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,188
113
#71
"To the woman He said: “I will sharply increase your pain in childbirth; in pain you will bring forth children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you.” (Genesis 3:16)

We are told that: "Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law" (Galations 3:13) Does this mean that the Husband and wife are to be equal partners in a marriage and that in a Christian marriage the husband does not "rule" over the wife? Or does the women still have to submit herself to her husband in the same way that we are to submit ourself to Christ.

I believe that Jesus went to Calvery to sacrifice Himself for His Bride. In the same way the Husband should die to self and sacrifice himself for his wife in the way that Jesus set an example for us to follow.

Should the women go through natural childbirth and not try to avoid the pain?
well Eve was already pregnant by then so she didnt really have much of a choice.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,188
113
#72
The interesting thing is Eve did not try to abort her first child but he actually ended up killing her second.

I think back then God helped with the childbirth but did warn that it would be painful. Every woman knows this. But women still do it. unfortunatley one cant say to anyone who is foolishly in love with someone that there are actually consequences to having sexual intercourse. when the pill was invented it seemed men thought wow women can all be prostitutes now. um no.
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
#73
The interesting thing is Eve did not try to abort her first child but he actually ended up killing her second.

I think back then God helped with the childbirth but did warn that it would be painful. Every woman knows this. But women still do it. unfortunatley one cant say to anyone who is foolishly in love with someone that there are actually consequences to having sexual intercourse. when the pill was invented it seemed men thought wow women can all be prostitutes now. um no.

I think the relief in pain of childbirth is the relief or rest we have in Christ. Yoked with him who dwells in the believer.

From the way I understand the name Cain a word meaning; "acquired possession". Named as a hope that Adam and Eve had been given. . . . away back into a relationship with God not seen. Abel a word that gives the idea of vanity seeing the vanity .God teaching them to walk by faith .

It would seem he uses first born that way throughout . And can be applied with the example of Paul and Timothy.

Galatians 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,

Same principle the suffering of faith

Revelation 12 King James Version (KJV) And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
 

Diakonos

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2019
1,381
434
83
31
Anacortes, WA
#76
I figured as much. You seem like a pretty smart cookie.
The Lord is a smart cookie. I don't have to know all the answers, I just need to know the One who does, and what He has said :)
Believe it or not, I'm actually a horrible speller. I have to use spell check a lot time before I post comments. So if its not in the English dictionary...I'm on my own haha
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
9,164
1,794
113
#77
According to the National Domestic Hotline:
3 in 10 women (29%) and 1 in 10 men (10%) in the US have experienced rape, physical violence and/or stalking by a partner


How many men are going to call a hotline and say, "My wife is beating me up?" That does not seem to be a good method for collecting data on this issue.

1 in 4 women (24.3%) and 1 in 7 men (13.8%) aged 18 and older in the United States have been the victim of severe physical violence by an intimate partner in their lifetime.


Is this from the same source? Men may not report abuse as much as women. Men may be less likely to report aggravated sodomy than women are with rape. Men do not like reporting their wives and girlfriends are hitting them. It may be perceived as unmanly, the police may not take them seriously, and there is a good chance if they report a domestic violence incident, the man will be taken off in handcuffs whether he is guilty or not and branded as an abuser.

Not sure what you'd consider normal male behavior. And it could be abusive mentally if submission is used in the wrong context.
No, of course not. I could not find the page with something I'd look up before, but I was about to find this post makes some interesting points about abuse models that are intertwined with radical feminist philosophy. https://dalrock.wordpress.com/2015/10/27/way-ahead-of-you/

Again, it depends on the word submission and obedience. Fear? Not a word that should be used, there are better more appropriate translations than that.

This is from a literal rendering of Ephesians 5:33. We are also to fear God.

The Bible does not teach husbands to be fearsome to their wives.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
9,164
1,794
113
#78
The interesting thing is Eve did not try to abort her first child but he actually ended up killing her second.

I think back then God helped with the childbirth but did warn that it would be painful. Every woman knows this. But women still do it. unfortunatley one cant say to anyone who is foolishly in love with someone that there are actually consequences to having sexual intercourse. when the pill was invented it seemed men thought wow women can all be prostitutes now. um no.
Some of the women seemed to think that, the type that do not accept any money. Some still do.

Porneia refers to prostitution or sex outside of marriage, among other things. In the world, a prostitute who accepted 25 cents per customer might be considered lower class than one who charged $500. What does that say of those who charge nothing at all? That's considered to be a normal thing these days.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
9,164
1,794
113
#79
Missing the point. If a woman is not suppose to take meds for suffering in childbirth then men should not use any equipment to do their jobs. We'll all go back to OT living before tractors, trucks and machines. That was the comparison I was making in a tongue in cheek way. But I've been jumped twice already. Which tells me something...
I am not anti-epidural. But childbirth is a natural thing the human body was designed to do (the female body at least). Getting spayed and neutered isn't.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
9,164
1,794
113
#80
I used to work for an attorney who practiced family law. We had one client who was in the military ... tall ... in shape. His wife beat him. I don't know how long he had withstood her physical assaults on him but he finally decided it was better for him to get a divorce from her because he was afraid that one time he would respond by hitting her back. I guess he finally had enough.

Tough, too, because they had kids. Sad for kids to be in situations like that ...
I read a post from a man on a men's forum whose ex-wife would slap him awake when he was asleep. There are violent men who abuse their wives. But there are violent women, too. Even if a man is bigger and stronger, he has to sleep sometime and there are knives in the kitchen. Our society takes violence against men as a joke. Back in the 1980's, there was a woman who cut her husband, John Wayne Bobbitt. The information the media told about him did not make him out to be a kind husband, but plenty of people treated that like a joke. But people would take women being mutilated that way much more seriously and it would be considered out of line to joke about such things. There are people who say that it is not possible for a woman to rape a man, too. I would imagine it is quite rare. I can understand women thinking that, but I don't get men thinking that unless they are very old and have poor memories.

But now I am participating in the violence discussion. The Bible tells wives to submit to their husbands. That verse should not make 'domestic violect' pop into our heads. The connection with the curse, the man ruling over her might be a bit more connected, but I don't think it meant that Adam was going to beat Eve since she'd eaten of the fruit and offered it to Adam.