Gentiles
- Thread starter just-me
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
I have three sons whom I love equally. but I also have different relationships with each. It would be true that my love for them ends up the same, but I had different roads travelled to getting there. And to be honest, I had different levels of intimacy with each- not the same!.
Here Christ is intimate with one differently than another; the Jews, but ends up telling of the end of the road which includes love for all-equally., as with me and my sons. He never tried to hide it. He came for sinners, to serve them. What He didn't say was I came to serve sinners but will love the Jews just little more." "...but don't worry you all get the keys at least to the Kingdom as a consolation prize."
I would die for each of my sons, but my relationship with each is different. There is no need to suppose lesser love from one to the other based on this different experiential relationship. Christ had always had this overall love to be shared, but God has His timing set forth as He did. Now we are under the "NEW CHURCH", not a "NEW HEART OF GOD" a Church without exclusion, a church in fact now with all- inclusion of all He has loved from the beginning of time. He doesn't love a certain class of men more. He never loved any other class less. But He did experience them differently. It's only human -reasoning and Satan that is suggesting a lesser love based on that conclusion.
If God walked 7 hrs vs. 10 minutes with you would he not know you better after 7 hrs?? Would He not appreciate you even more?? Yes. But appreciating something and loving something equally is all together different.! Did not God know the thoughts of all humans on the planet at the same time? Yes! But this is where we see God as Jesus Christ as well; the Human-God. But He had never lost the God- Human either. So human reasoning does not apply, for our experience will never relate to an equal love and a special connection all at the same time- without waver. The point now is we now all have His all. And we always did. Human reasoning has us thinking well if God loved one more even if it was for a time, isn't that one more important and favored over the other regardless of inclusion-logicaly? But God never said He loved the Jews more, it was they had a special place in His heart.
As the disciples argued with such a human- reasoning spirit when they walked thru Galilee and Judaea wanting to know who ranked higher amongst the servants of God, even in the middle of their ministry, Jesus corrected them. For God never sees the evaluation of men as we do.
. He never saw Gentile or Jew. He saw Jew yet Gentile [etc]. It was only a timing issue. And of coarse there is a list of other communities He brought into the fold as well..even including the Barbarians [An interesting lot, at best]. So, in the Historical timing of God we are not to second guess that. In the 'special'- ness of an experiential moment with one over another, we are not to equate that with favoritism. And we also need to understand Satans authorship of much of our discontent with His all in love from God to us all. To study the greeks x's and o's for the sake of knowledge- that is fine., but I don't need to go too deep to get the point. Otherwise why am I digging so hard?
Here Christ is intimate with one differently than another; the Jews, but ends up telling of the end of the road which includes love for all-equally., as with me and my sons. He never tried to hide it. He came for sinners, to serve them. What He didn't say was I came to serve sinners but will love the Jews just little more." "...but don't worry you all get the keys at least to the Kingdom as a consolation prize."
I would die for each of my sons, but my relationship with each is different. There is no need to suppose lesser love from one to the other based on this different experiential relationship. Christ had always had this overall love to be shared, but God has His timing set forth as He did. Now we are under the "NEW CHURCH", not a "NEW HEART OF GOD" a Church without exclusion, a church in fact now with all- inclusion of all He has loved from the beginning of time. He doesn't love a certain class of men more. He never loved any other class less. But He did experience them differently. It's only human -reasoning and Satan that is suggesting a lesser love based on that conclusion.
If God walked 7 hrs vs. 10 minutes with you would he not know you better after 7 hrs?? Would He not appreciate you even more?? Yes. But appreciating something and loving something equally is all together different.! Did not God know the thoughts of all humans on the planet at the same time? Yes! But this is where we see God as Jesus Christ as well; the Human-God. But He had never lost the God- Human either. So human reasoning does not apply, for our experience will never relate to an equal love and a special connection all at the same time- without waver. The point now is we now all have His all. And we always did. Human reasoning has us thinking well if God loved one more even if it was for a time, isn't that one more important and favored over the other regardless of inclusion-logicaly? But God never said He loved the Jews more, it was they had a special place in His heart.
As the disciples argued with such a human- reasoning spirit when they walked thru Galilee and Judaea wanting to know who ranked higher amongst the servants of God, even in the middle of their ministry, Jesus corrected them. For God never sees the evaluation of men as we do.
. He never saw Gentile or Jew. He saw Jew yet Gentile [etc]. It was only a timing issue. And of coarse there is a list of other communities He brought into the fold as well..even including the Barbarians [An interesting lot, at best]. So, in the Historical timing of God we are not to second guess that. In the 'special'- ness of an experiential moment with one over another, we are not to equate that with favoritism. And we also need to understand Satans authorship of much of our discontent with His all in love from God to us all. To study the greeks x's and o's for the sake of knowledge- that is fine., but I don't need to go too deep to get the point. Otherwise why am I digging so hard?
Baptism didn't begin with John the Baptist. Without “repentance” (the desire to be conformed into the image of God's Word) baptism is only a ritual without the faith in God's Word that instigates repentance, no different in comparison to the hypocritical rituals of the Pharisees in the first century AD. “But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance: John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.” (Matthew 3:7-8 and Mark 1:4)
Repentance is clearly defined as right, and defined clearly in the Old Covenant, when we read the prayer of Solomon in 1 Kings 8:47-50 “Yet if they shall bethink themselves in the land whither they were carried captives, and repent, and make supplication unto thee in the land of them that carried them captives, saying, We have sinned, and have done perversely, we have committed wickedness; And so return unto thee with all their heart, and with all their soul, in the land of their enemies, which led them away captive, and pray unto thee toward their land, which thou gavest unto their fathers, the city which thou hast chosen, and the house which I have built for thy name: Then hear thou their prayer and their supplication in heaven thy dwelling place, and maintain their cause, And forgive thy people that have sinned against thee, and all their transgressions wherein they have transgressed against thee, and give them compassion before them who carried them captive, that they may have compassion on them:”
Baptism began with the descendants of Levi who were elected by God to be the governing priests of the Old Covenant. This duty began with Aaron and His sons who were “baptized” into that elected position. “And this is the thing that thou shalt do unto them to hallow them, to minister unto me in the priest's office: Take one young bullock, and two rams without blemish, And Aaron and his sons thou shalt bring unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and shalt wash them with water.” (Exodus 29:1 and 4)
So the order of baptism for “consecration” (ordained as sacred) began at mount Sinai as Moses received priestly instructions. Aaron and his sons were declared as dedicated and sacred in the eyes of God by this action of immersion in water. This confirms the necessity why Jesus had to be “baptized” by John because the priesthood of the Levities would be transferred to Judah through Christ. “Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him. But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness.” (Matthew 3:13-15)
Repentance is clearly defined as right, and defined clearly in the Old Covenant, when we read the prayer of Solomon in 1 Kings 8:47-50 “Yet if they shall bethink themselves in the land whither they were carried captives, and repent, and make supplication unto thee in the land of them that carried them captives, saying, We have sinned, and have done perversely, we have committed wickedness; And so return unto thee with all their heart, and with all their soul, in the land of their enemies, which led them away captive, and pray unto thee toward their land, which thou gavest unto their fathers, the city which thou hast chosen, and the house which I have built for thy name: Then hear thou their prayer and their supplication in heaven thy dwelling place, and maintain their cause, And forgive thy people that have sinned against thee, and all their transgressions wherein they have transgressed against thee, and give them compassion before them who carried them captive, that they may have compassion on them:”
Baptism began with the descendants of Levi who were elected by God to be the governing priests of the Old Covenant. This duty began with Aaron and His sons who were “baptized” into that elected position. “And this is the thing that thou shalt do unto them to hallow them, to minister unto me in the priest's office: Take one young bullock, and two rams without blemish, And Aaron and his sons thou shalt bring unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and shalt wash them with water.” (Exodus 29:1 and 4)
So the order of baptism for “consecration” (ordained as sacred) began at mount Sinai as Moses received priestly instructions. Aaron and his sons were declared as dedicated and sacred in the eyes of God by this action of immersion in water. This confirms the necessity why Jesus had to be “baptized” by John because the priesthood of the Levities would be transferred to Judah through Christ. “Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him. But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness.” (Matthew 3:13-15)
Continuing with John the Baptist
Now we can better understand Luke when he wrote “The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.” (Luke 16:16) Many people use this scripture to present the false narrative that the law ended with the ministry of John the Baptist, but in truth the Levite priesthood ended with John, for he was of the tribe of Levi, and this holy priesthood was carried into a New Testament through Christ Jesus.
Confirming the Levite heritage of John we read of “a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth. Annas and Caiaphas being the high priests, the word of God came unto John the son of Zacharias in the wilderness.” ( Luke 1:5 and 3:2) The relationship of “the course of Abia” can be found in Nehemiah 12:1-4.
In order for Jesus to fulfill the role of the Priesthood that would soon be transferred to His tribe of Judah at the mount of transfiguration, (Matthew 17:1-3) our Savior had to follow suit with the law of “priesthood consecration” thereby following the specifications of His own Father. John was of the tribe of Levi, doing the same thing as Moses did with Aaron and his sons, and baptized Jesus for the Royal Priesthood, and in like manner.
Now we can better understand Luke when he wrote “The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.” (Luke 16:16) Many people use this scripture to present the false narrative that the law ended with the ministry of John the Baptist, but in truth the Levite priesthood ended with John, for he was of the tribe of Levi, and this holy priesthood was carried into a New Testament through Christ Jesus.
Confirming the Levite heritage of John we read of “a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth. Annas and Caiaphas being the high priests, the word of God came unto John the son of Zacharias in the wilderness.” ( Luke 1:5 and 3:2) The relationship of “the course of Abia” can be found in Nehemiah 12:1-4.
In order for Jesus to fulfill the role of the Priesthood that would soon be transferred to His tribe of Judah at the mount of transfiguration, (Matthew 17:1-3) our Savior had to follow suit with the law of “priesthood consecration” thereby following the specifications of His own Father. John was of the tribe of Levi, doing the same thing as Moses did with Aaron and his sons, and baptized Jesus for the Royal Priesthood, and in like manner.
Continuing with Gentiles being added to the Kingdom of God through true spiritual baptizm.
Now those of us who believe in Christ, and trust the good news of the gospel of God through Christ are “baptized” into the Kingdom of God as a member of His “Royal Priesthood in Christ Jesus. “But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light; (1 Peter 2:9)
Baptism by the washing of water is also mentioned in Leviticus chapters 13 through 15 as a cleansing by water and the shedding of blood. This is related to curing leprosy, (a metaphor of corruption) before the priest becomes involved, and purity after His work is fulfilled/completed.
“A glorious high throne from the beginning is the place of our sanctuary. O Lord, the hope of Israel,” (Jeremiah 17:12-13a) *The word “hope” in verse 13 is “mikveh” which (in short) means abiding, gathering together in hope with a plentiful collection of water. “For we are saved by hope:” (Romans 8:24a)
“And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spake unto the women which resorted thither. And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul. And when she was baptized, and her household, she besought us, saying, If ye have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house, and abide there. And she constrained us.” (Acts 16:13-15)
To Jewish onlookers, Lydia's immersion at the side of the river was a “*mikvah,” a gathering together by the water, based on the covenant of immersion for the Priesthood, first beginning with the tribe of Levi, and finalized (fulfilled) by Jesus Christ, our descendant from the tribe of Judah.
Now those of us who believe in Christ, and trust the good news of the gospel of God through Christ are “baptized” into the Kingdom of God as a member of His “Royal Priesthood in Christ Jesus. “But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light; (1 Peter 2:9)
Baptism by the washing of water is also mentioned in Leviticus chapters 13 through 15 as a cleansing by water and the shedding of blood. This is related to curing leprosy, (a metaphor of corruption) before the priest becomes involved, and purity after His work is fulfilled/completed.
“A glorious high throne from the beginning is the place of our sanctuary. O Lord, the hope of Israel,” (Jeremiah 17:12-13a) *The word “hope” in verse 13 is “mikveh” which (in short) means abiding, gathering together in hope with a plentiful collection of water. “For we are saved by hope:” (Romans 8:24a)
“And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spake unto the women which resorted thither. And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul. And when she was baptized, and her household, she besought us, saying, If ye have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house, and abide there. And she constrained us.” (Acts 16:13-15)
To Jewish onlookers, Lydia's immersion at the side of the river was a “*mikvah,” a gathering together by the water, based on the covenant of immersion for the Priesthood, first beginning with the tribe of Levi, and finalized (fulfilled) by Jesus Christ, our descendant from the tribe of Judah.
Last edited:
and ware is your proof.
here is proof.
no they were not. when did they repent in acts 10, v acts 2.
acts 15. what law was given to a gentile.
two different ministries
7 On the contrary, when they saw that I had been entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been entrusted with the gospel to the circumcised8 (for he who worked through Peter for his apostolic ministry to the circumcised worked also through me for mine to the Gentiles)
before 70 ad the christian jews were still attached to the law of moses and the requirement of a temple of stone.
here is proof.
no they were not. when did they repent in acts 10, v acts 2.
acts 15. what law was given to a gentile.
two different ministries
7 On the contrary, when they saw that I had been entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been entrusted with the gospel to the circumcised8 (for he who worked through Peter for his apostolic ministry to the circumcised worked also through me for mine to the Gentiles)
before 70 ad the christian jews were still attached to the law of moses and the requirement of a temple of stone.
Last edited:
“Yet the Lord testified against Israel, and against Judah, by all the prophets, and by all the seers, saying, Turn ye from your evil ways, and keep my commandments and my statutes, according to all the law which I commanded your fathers, and which I sent to you by my servants the prophets. Notwithstanding they would not hear, but hardened their necks, like to the neck of their fathers, that did not believe in the Lord their God.” (2 Kings 17:13)
“Hearken unto me, my people; and give ear unto me, O my nation: for a law shall proceed from me, and I will make my judgment to rest for a light of the people.” (Isa. 51:4)
“Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.” (Matthew 21:43)
God reacted toward Israel, either rejecting, or accepting their actions in light of His unchanging righteous judgments according to His instructions. God being unchanged, and Jesus being His Son who reacted solely according to His Father's will, why do those who say they have been added to the Kingdom of God (Gentiles) declare that Jesus judges the New Testament church differently than His own Father did Israel?
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever” and He, “The same was in the beginning with God” taking into consideration that “there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.” (Hebrews 13:8, John 1:2 and Romans 10:12)
“Hearken unto me, my people; and give ear unto me, O my nation: for a law shall proceed from me, and I will make my judgment to rest for a light of the people.” (Isa. 51:4)
“Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.” (Matthew 21:43)
God reacted toward Israel, either rejecting, or accepting their actions in light of His unchanging righteous judgments according to His instructions. God being unchanged, and Jesus being His Son who reacted solely according to His Father's will, why do those who say they have been added to the Kingdom of God (Gentiles) declare that Jesus judges the New Testament church differently than His own Father did Israel?
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever” and He, “The same was in the beginning with God” taking into consideration that “there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.” (Hebrews 13:8, John 1:2 and Romans 10:12)
Among the several contra-NT notions proposed in your post, is the above.
The Levitical prieshood was not transferred to Christ or to Judah.
Christ was made a priest in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron, and he is the new eternal High Priest of that priesthood.
There is no Levitical priesthood.
You are very confused. . .because you do not understand that the former incomplete revelation of the OT is to be understood in the light of the latter complete revelation of the NT, where we learn that the Levitical priesthood has been changed to the priesthood of Melchizedek.
The Levitical prieshood was not transferred to Christ or to Judah.
Christ was made a priest in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron, and he is the new eternal High Priest of that priesthood.
There is no Levitical priesthood.
You are very confused. . .because you do not understand that the former incomplete revelation of the OT is to be understood in the light of the latter complete revelation of the NT, where we learn that the Levitical priesthood has been changed to the priesthood of Melchizedek.
I wish I knew English better 
It sounds interesting. I have tried to understand that one but failed "Therefore, the Jews are not grafted into the Gentile Church" - Who to grant them after the God has granted them? Or I probably misunderstood it completely?
and ...would you tell me what HRM means?
It sounds interesting. I have tried to understand that one but failed "Therefore, the Jews are not grafted into the Gentile Church" - Who to grant them after the God has granted them? Or I probably misunderstood it completely?and ...would you tell me what HRM means?
The Gentiles were granted access to the Kingdom of God through Christ Jesus who was Jewish. In both the Old and New Covenants, Gentiles (strangers and sojourners) were accepted into the nation of Israel as citizens if they adhered to the law as Israel did. Israel (the Jews being part of that nation) were God's chosen in the Old Covenant. Now, the New Covenant ministry of both Paul and Jesus Christ, who were Jews, invited Gentiles into the church because of their belief in Jesus as the true Messiah.
Hopefully this will answer your question about "Therefore, the Jews are not grafted into the Gentile Church."
These scriptures should help with understanding that the Jews weren't added to the Gentiles, but the Gentiles were added to the Jews.
"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek." Romans 1:16
"Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: Romans 2:9-10
This was Gods process of events to make His chronology correct and perfect.
Last edited:
I wish I knew English better It sounds interesting. I have tried to understand that one but failed "Therefore, the Jews are not grafted into the Gentile Church" - Who to grant them after the God has granted them? Or I probably misunderstood it completely?
and ...would you tell me what HRM means?
It sounds interesting. I have tried to understand that one but failed "Therefore, the Jews are not grafted into the Gentile Church" - Who to grant them after the God has granted them? Or I probably misunderstood it completely?and ...would you tell me what HRM means?
In other words....
Based on a thing that is accepted as true or as certain to happen, without proof of something belonging to, or for the use of one particular person, only explaining the meaning of something accurately, attempting to describe or predict what will happen in the future, making statements intentionally phrased so as to require ingenuity, which others in the body of Christ will explain this heard information to mean something that is generally believed or recognized to be valid, correct, or true, but not being completely the same as another or each other.
Please follow the thought process. LOL
Based on a thing that is accepted as true or as certain to happen, without proof of something belonging to, or for the use of one particular person, only explaining the meaning of something accurately, attempting to describe or predict what will happen in the future, making statements intentionally phrased so as to require ingenuity, which others in the body of Christ will explain this heard information to mean something that is generally believed or recognized to be valid, correct, or true, but not being completely the same as another or each other.
Please follow the thought process. LOL
Last edited: