God hating you before you're born?

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May 8, 2017
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Do you claim Romans 8:28-39 for yourself?
Lets no go any further because if we do, you will refute yourself, for the elect cannot elect themselves now can they?

I mean honestly you and fallen and other predesters have been saying that all day, right?

You guys say you do not know who the elect are out of one side of your mouth and then claim you are one of the elect out of the other. You then call others double minded!?
 
B

BeyondET

Guest
The responses about election here by the naysayers shows at least one thing: none of them know the milk of the Word, and election is milk, not meat.

Arrg Garber isn't healthy at all for children.

Sugar
The No. 1 ingredient in Gerber Rice Cereal is white rice flour, which means you are basically feeding your child a whole bunch of starch. Not only is this ingredient processed, but it’s also high in calories and devoid of real nutrients.

Giving your child Gerber baby food “is basically like giving your child a spoonful of sugar,” says Dr. Alan Greene, a pediatrician from Stanford University.

According to him, feeding a baby bleached white rice can also predispose a child to obesity. If you think about it, feeding your child Gerber Rice Cereal creates a negative taste imprint that can cause bad food choices later in life.

2. Not By A Long Chalk
These days, calcium is added to all kinds of foods, from O.J. to Spaghetti-Os. When a food manufacturer wants to ensure a baked good will rise, they might add calcium carbonate because it acts as both a leavening agent and a (substandard) calcium source.
Incidentally, calcium carbonate is also used as a building material because it’s basically limestone. How yummy!

The primary justification for ingesting calcium carbonate is to “support bones.” Lancet and the British Medical Journal, however, published the results of two extensive clinical trials that concluded calcium plus vitamin D do nothing to prevent bone loss.

Meanwhile, it takes our bodies 12 steps to convert calcium carbonate into calcium bicarbonate, which is the form of calcium we can absorb. So why do they use it? It’s chalk; it’s relatively cheap to produce.

Want to give your baby calcium? Why not give her real food in the form of liver, collard greens, spinach, broccoli, okra, or prunes. Leave the chalk for the classroom and construction.

3. Soy Lecithin
Why has soy lecithin also found its way into so many processed foods? According to its label, Gerber adds less than two percent. But why? For starters, it emulsifies, reduces stickiness, and extends shelf life. But how does that benefit your baby?

The answer is it doesn’t. Soybeans are considered a “major food allergen” by the Food and Drug Administration. What parent wants to feed that to their child, regardless of the amount? Furthermore, 96 percent of soybeans in this country are now genetically engineered, which means your child is eating frankenfood even before they have teeth.

4. Faux Iron

Garber Baby food No. 1 foosource for Iron” (for those starting on solid foods); “available in an easy to use package”. This is Gerber’s claim, but I would say it’s a flat-out lie.

“Electrotrolytic” iron is listed as the sixth ingredient on the label. So there isn’t much of it.

Meanwhile, a baby can only absorb a mere four percent of this fortified powdered stuff compared to 50 percent of iron in breast milk. To add insult to injury, this form of iron is artificial and is the least absorbable type. But it makes its way into “an easy to use package” of cereal because it’s cheaper and extends shelf life.
 
May 8, 2017
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Do you lie and misrepresent often or just in the above? Show us all where anything about works existed in my post.
No lie or misrepresent sir, I said you are starting to tread , never said you dove in and stated it. the underline bold is the treading of water.

Originally Posted by preacher4truth
Hi kaylagrl!

All the elect pre-conversion were as the rest of mankind, Ephesians 2:3. Note in Ephesians 1 He already spoke to them about their being predestined and chosen to salvation before the foundation of the world.

Also, take a look at Paul's words in 2 Timothy 2:8-10 where the thing that motivated him to preach was because the elect are out there. He learned this personally in Acts 18 concerning Corinth. It's a beautiful and hope-filled truth, we are not preaching in vain, God has His elect out there that He will save in time. :)
 
Nov 22, 2015
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John 1:7 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] He came as a witness, to testify about the Light,so that all might believe through him.

John 11:41-42 (NASB)
[SUP]41 [/SUP] So they removed the stone. Then Jesus raised His eyes, and said, "Father, I thank You that You have heard Me.

[SUP]42 [/SUP] "I knew that You always hear Me; but because of the people standing around I said it, so that they may believe that You sent Me."

John 16:8-9 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] "And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment;

[SUP]9 [/SUP]concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me;


John 17:21 (NASB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.


Acts 13:39 (KJV)
[SUP]39 [/SUP] And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

Acts 19:4 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
 

preacher4truth

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
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Lets no go any further because if we do, you will refute yourself, for the elect cannot elect themselves now can they?

I mean honestly you and fallen and other predesters have been saying that all day, right?

You guys say you do not know who the elect are out of one side of your mouth and then claim you are one of the elect out of the other. You then call others double minded!?
OK, I'll take it you cannot answer the question given you, and you probably shouldn't because it would expose you and your error. That and you lie about what others say which raises questions about your person.

Looks to me this is your 3rd moniker on here as well. ;)
 

ForthAngel

Senior Member
Aug 31, 2012
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Lets no go any further because if we do, you will refute yourself, for the elect cannot elect themselves now can they?

I mean honestly you and fallen and other predesters have been saying that all day, right?

You guys say you do not know who the elect are out of one side of your mouth and then claim you are one of the elect out of the other. You then call others double minded!?
How does any Christian know they are saved? Use that brain God gave you and think. You are asking us to be the judge of random people scattered all throughout the world and saying we can't claim that we ourselves are saved without doing so. Do you realize how stupid your questions are?
 

preacher4truth

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
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No lie or misrepresent sir, I said you are starting to tread , never said you dove in and stated it. the underline bold is the treading of water.
Oh, the fact that God has His elect out there means I'm working for salvation a little bit? LOL!!!! That's hilariously petty and asinine on your part. LOL!

Not even close. You lied and misrepresented which is slander. Now, go show us all where anything I said remotely showed works based salvation or even treading it, you haven't done so yet, you're simply making false baseless accusations. Are you a Christian??????

That and for just joining, again, you sure are fast with the functions on this site.

Let's see, it's FreeNChrist with yet another moniker. LOL!!!! Hey, at least you adjusted your age this time. Hilarious!
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
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John 1:7 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] He came as a witness, to testify about the Light,so that all might believe through him.

John 11:41-42 (NASB)
[SUP]41 [/SUP] So they removed the stone. Then Jesus raised His eyes, and said, "Father, I thank You that You have heard Me.

[SUP]42 [/SUP] "I knew that You always hear Me; but because of the people standing around I said it, so that they may believe that You sent Me."

John 16:8-9 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] "And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment;

[SUP]9 [/SUP]concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me;


John 17:21 (NASB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.


Acts 13:39 (KJV)
[SUP]39 [/SUP] And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

Acts 19:4 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
Amen i agree
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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I just think, why would Jesus exhort us to repent and believe if we had no choice in the matter? It seems a rather foolish position to take to say it is all up to God. Saying God makes it possible is not to say He forces anyone to choose one way or another. Sometimes people will give Pharaoh as an example, because God hardened Pharaoh's heart, and God knew He was going to do this ahead of time, to show forth His supremacy over all the false idols in Egypt. However, when people use this as a text as if it proves their position of us having no choice in the matter, they completely overlook the fact that Pharaoh hardened his own heart multiple times before God moved to further harden it.
 
May 8, 2017
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OK, I'll take it you cannot answer the question given you, and you probably shouldn't because it would expose you and your error. That and you lie about what others say which raises questions about your person.

Looks to me this is your 3rd moniker on here as well. ;)
Based on your other conversations with others, that also have a different take than you on Romans 8.28-39, I am not going to answer. The burden of proof is on you, not me.

Please tell me now, how you know you are one of the elect, you have spent all day convincing us that you do not know who the elect are, so how do you know you are one of them?

Fair question I would think. You then said:
God has His elect out there that He will save in time. :)
ANd I said that this statement seems to be treading water for works based salvation, you said I lie and misrepresent, but that is not true. I never said you believed in works based salvation, I merely stated you were treading water, not knee deep in it.
 
May 8, 2017
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How does any Christian know they are saved? Use that brain God gave you and think. You are asking us to be the judge of random people scattered all throughout the world and saying we can't claim that we ourselves are saved without doing so. Do you realize how stupid your questions are?
A christian knows they are saved by what the word says. I am not going to post a bunch of verses you will refute.

They are only stupid to a truly carnal mind that has no clue if he is even saved, despite the word saying that we will know...

I am merely asking you all to prove out your theories...you have stated all day you have zero, zilch, Nada knowledge of who is elect, so I asked, how do you know you are and by you guys go Mt. Vesuvius on us and then call us liars, misinofrmers and stupid.

SO how do you know you are one of the elect?
 

preacher4truth

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
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Based on your other conversations with others, that also have a different take than you on Romans 8.28-39, I am not going to answer.
You've been here under your new moniker just as of today freenchrist. How many do you have? I don't blame you for not answering if Romans 8:28-39 is there for you to claim as a promise to you, because you cannot claim it obviously.

The burden of proof is on you, not me.
There is no "burden of proof" when a person asks if a passage applies to them or not.

Please tell me now, how you know you are one of the elect, you have spent all day convincing us that you do not know who the elect are, so how do you know you are one of them?
I'm elect because God saved me. As far as who the elect are that He hasn't yet saved in time is in His hands, not mine. Acts 18, 2 TImothy 2:8-10 may help you, but I'm not so certain you have ears to hear or even eyes to see.

Fair question I would think. You then said: ANd I said that this statement seems to be treading water for works based salvation, you said I lie and misrepresent, but that is not true. I never said you believed in works based salvation, I merely stated you were treading water, not knee deep in it.
Yes, I know what you said and it's totally unfounded and false. But you behave like this under your other monikers as well so it's nothing new. You truly need to end your lies and false accusations.

Anyhow, perhaps you simply cannot discern truth which is why you struggle with plain teachings of Scripture. 1 Corinthians 2:14.
 
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Nov 22, 2015
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Romans 10:11-13 (NASB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED."

[SUP]12 [/SUP] For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him;


[SUP]13 [/SUP] for
"WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."

Galatians 3:22 (KJV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

1 Timothy 4:10-11 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Prescribe and teach these things.

Why "especially of believers if God is the Savior of all men?" - because they believed when they heard the message of Christ. It's those that receive the abundance of grace and the gift of righteousness that reign through the Lord Jesus Christ.

Romans 5:17-18 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.

[SUP]18 [/SUP] So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men.

Everything that Adam did to man-kind - Jesus un-did! There is now available to "all men" ( no women of course because the bible clearly says "men" here...:rolleyes: ) the justification of life to all those that believe on Christ.

I looked up the word "all" in the Greek and sure enough - all means "all, everyone, each, every"...go figure?...:)

 
Nov 22, 2015
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Someone said that you are freenchirst in another form. Is this true or is it just slander and an accusation which is not true at all?

I thought it was against CC rules to have multiple accounts at the same time? I could be wrong though but I thought I saw that somewhere or maybe someone else said that before in a post.
 

ForthAngel

Senior Member
Aug 31, 2012
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I just think, why would Jesus exhort us to repent and believe if we had no choice in the matter? It seems a rather foolish position to take to say it is all up to God. Saying God makes it possible is not to say He forces anyone to choose one way or another. Sometimes people will give Pharaoh as an example, because God hardened Pharaoh's heart, and God knew He was going to do this ahead of time, to show forth His supremacy over all the false idols in Egypt. However, when people use this as a text as if it proves their position of us having no choice in the matter, they completely overlook the fact that Pharaoh hardened his own heart multiple times before God moved to further harden it.
Pharaoh did harden his heart at first. None of us will deny that. But, if we let Paul interpret it as he does in Romans 9, we can clearly see that God also hardened him for a purpose. Why did God have to harden him more if he already did it? My point of view is that God hardened him further to keep him from conceding because God wasn't finished with his display of power. Pharaoh would have conceded and let the people go to save himself.

None of us believe that God arbitrarily hardens anyone. There is a purpose. He had a purpose when he hardened the Jews, Jesus had a purpose when he withheld the truth so some wouldn't turn and be saved. There is a purpose when God deludes those unbelievers of 2 Thes. 2 and when he turns people over to their own desires in Romans 1. Is this not a violation of their will? Was Paul's will violated? Why is everyone okay with corporate election (Israel), but once the new testament gets here, everyone thinks God owes them something? It makes no sense.

The point we make is that ALL are fallen and condemned by God. All of us. It's all over the bible. It can't be denied. So God, in his mercy, chose to save some by changing their nature. He doesn't force us, he frees us. This idea is all over scripture as well. Heart of stone to heart of flesh, those he predestined he also calls and those he calls he also justifies.

How can we reconcile "all people" in some cases when there are explicit texts that mention only those chosen? We can't unless we conclude that all doesn't always mean all, and it is usually shown in context by listing people groups.

Jesus himself makes claims that only those given to him will come to him, that some don't believe because they aren't of his flock, not that they aren't of his flock because they don't believe. What about the plethora of passages that clearly describe the inability of man, comparing our natural state to that of a dead man, a slave, a God-hater from birth. These text are being completely ignored by Arminians. Context is completely mangled by them as well. A verse ripped out of it's context can be made to mean anything.

We gotta look at the whole picture. Either Jesus' sacrifice was only half-effective, or it was perfect and complete. A lot of the verses being used out of their context espouse universalism more than mere Arminianism. Are we universalists now?

It would be nice to find a middle ground but I don't think there is one. The fact is, most won't even realistically consider another school of thought even for a second, so they are resorting to misrepresentation, lying, subversion, and other tactics. Hard pressed to even get someone to address passages in their context. It goes completely ignored.
 
Dec 2, 2016
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When you commit to God and accept Jesus as Savior then you become one of the elect(chosen), until that happens a person is just lost. No place in the bible is a lost person called one of the elect. The idea that a person can be one of the elect of God before they have accepted Jesus as Savior is not taught in the bible.
 

ForthAngel

Senior Member
Aug 31, 2012
2,171
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When you commit to God and accept Jesus as Savior then you become one of the elect(chosen), until that happens a person is just lost. No place in the bible is a lost person called one of the elect. The idea that a person can be one of the elect of God before they have accepted Jesus as Savior is not taught in the bible.
Point proven right here. This guy has no clue what we believe.

Anyway, really? Jesus said the elect were known from before the world was created. Explain that one. Oh God's foreknowledge right? He somehow had to look through time like a fortune teller and see who was going to choose him. Ridiculous. He wove the fabric of space time. His foreknowledge is based off of his decree, not some esoteric knowledge he had to learn.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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He somehow had to look through time like a fortune teller and see who was going to choose him. Ridiculous. He wove the fabric of space time. His foreknowledge is based off of his decree, not some esoteric knowledge he had to learn.
Well said.
 
May 8, 2017
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You've been here under your new moniker just as of today freenchrist. How many do you have? I don't blame you for not answering if Romans 8:28-39 is there for you to claim as a promise to you, because you cannot claim it obviously.



There is no "burden of proof" when a person asks if a passage applies to them or not.



I'm elect because God saved me. As far as who the elect are that He hasn't yet saved in time is in His hands, not mine. Acts 18, 2 TImothy 2:8-10 may help you, but I'm not so certain you have ears to hear or even eyes to see.



Yes, I know what you said and it's totally unfounded and false. But you behave like this under your other monikers as well so it's nothing new. You truly need to end your lies and false accusations.

Anyhow, perhaps you simply cannot discern truth which is why you struggle with plain teachings of Scripture. 1 Corinthians 2:14.
I have no idea who freenchrist is. Thank oyu for finally answering an otherwise simple question.

We have nothing further to discuss because it will go no where and that is ok, believe it or not.
 
May 8, 2017
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Someone said that you are freenchirst in another form. Is this true or is it just slander and an accusation which is not true at all?

I thought it was against CC rules to have multiple accounts at the same time? I could be wrong though but I thought I saw that somewhere or maybe someone else said that before in a post.
I am not freenchrist or whatever he thinks I am. He finally answered my question.