God hating you before you're born?

[miknik5]

None of us know who will ascend or who will descend (talking about those who have not yet heard THE GOSPEL)

But that is the reason why THE GOSPEL (the word of faith) is preached
That men might believe and be saved

cinsider the lazy servant in a worldly and earthly view

inagine an employer hires out a laborer and the laborer pockets the seeds and does not even go ouon a workdlybsense, that employee has hindered the masters crips and in a sense has stolen from GOD

Look at Jonah

HE went to the worst of the worst He didn't want to
But GOD didn't tell us who we should choose or to even look at someone according to their flesh. He told us to "go"

We don't have the right to judge by the flesh since all have sinned and all are dead

what did GOD say to Jonah after those worst of the worst did show a change of heart and Jonah was angry about it

 

[ForthAngel]

miknik, if you want to have an objective view of what reformed theology/Calvinism is, here is a video series by RC Sproul that explains well what we believe. If you get time, watching the whole series will give a better understanding. Same goes for anyone else who really wants to have an objective view of what we believe and not just make baseless accusations like Mr. Willie and scram like cowards.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLwZsVj3A9EoR9bsscZHPgw-4U8IvXJlm6

 

[miknik5]

I wasn't upset with him. I was simply pointing out that he was misusing the verses and how ironic it was that he would use a Calvinist proof text to support his view of free-will.

From what I've seen of some of your posts, you are actually more Calvinist than Arminian in your belief. Like you said here, "HE will save and nothing I do will change that", is a Calvinist belief. We don't know the mind of God though. We don't teach to just go away and give up. Again, these are lies from the opposition who won't take the time to properly look at our view, or worse, deliberately lie about it.

Please review the verse he highlighted in red (John 6 the will of GOD)
by what he highlighted it was an all inclusive suggestion that all are saved
Did you notice that as well?

i am so confused
I posted no one knows the father but the son
no one knows the son but the father and those who THE SON chooses to reveal HIM

And we know the scriptures doesn't stop there

anyone who comes to me I will in no wise cast out
whoever loves me my father will love and I will come and manifest myself to them
come to me all who are heavy and laden. Take MY YOKE upon you and learn of ME For I am gentle and meek of heart and you will find rest for your souls

GOD has made it possible for man to come to HIM

I stand outside the DOOR and knock. If any man open the DOOR, I will come in and "eat" with him and he with ME

We have one right and work:
to preach the TRUTH of THE GOSPEL, point to THE DOOR, and step away

(and all the while pray that GOD will do for the man what we can't do for any man)

giOpen the eyes and ears of their heart to the TEUTH of THE GOSPEL

You will note that Romans 10 says if you believe with the heart

I can't see the heart.
One may make a verbal profession but it's GOD who sees the heart and knows what is hidden from us

 

[miknik5]

And HE won't be fooled by outward professions if inwardly where HE sees they do not truly believe

and yet, faith even the size of a mustard seed is faith

of course if it is directed in and on CHRIST JESUS who saves

and don't forget that in that day, anyone who calls on the name of THE LORD shall be saved

The seed is going out
We have no idea where it has been laid

we know that the conditions of the heart are different and the results will be different but that does not stop us from casting the seed and letting it fall where it will fall

 

[miknik5]

miknik, if you want to have an objective view of what reformed theology/Calvinism is, here is a video series by RC Sproul that explains well what we believe. If you get time, watching the whole series will give a better understanding. Same goes for anyone else who really wants to have an objective view of what we believe and not just make baseless accusations like Mr. Willie and scram like cowards.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLwZsVj3A9EoR9bsscZHPgw-4U8IvXJlm6

Thank you, I will

I love RC Sproul

 

[lonestar26]

And more lies from the humble all knowing Willie.

I will ask you and your buddies again...How do you reconcile this theology with the fact that 1/3 of the angles exercised their own free will/choice to fall with Satan....

We know what the will and work of angels are, because it tells us in the Word. If angels have free will/choice and are not elected how can we humans be any different.

 

[ForthAngel]

Please review the verse he highlighted in red (John 6 the will of GOD)
by what he highlighted it was an all inclusive suggestion that all are saved
Did you notice that as well?

Yes and this is why we are at odds. He is imposing is presuppositions into the text instead of reading the text and understanding what it is actually saying. He also used it out of context. His conclusion would have to be that all are saved, but the text clearly isn't saying that.

i am so confused
I posted no one knows the father but the son
no one knows the son but the father and those who THE SON chooses to reveal HIM

Yeah. This is the essence of reformed theology. God is sovereign, not man.

And we know the scriptures doesn't stop there

anyone who comes to me I will in no wise cast out
whoever loves me my father will love and I will come and manifest myself to them
come to me all who are heavy and laden. Take MY YOKE upon you and learn of ME For I am gentle and meek of heart and you will find rest for your souls

GOD has made it possible for man to come to HIM

I stand outside the DOOR and knock. If any man open the DOOR, I will come in and "eat" with him and he with ME

We have one right and work:
to preach the TRUTH of THE GOSPEL, point to THE DOOR, and step away

(and all the while pray that GOD will do for the man what we can't do for any man)

giOpen the eyes and ears of their heart to the TEUTH of THE GOSPEL

You will note that Romans 10 says if you believe with the heart

I can't see the heart.
One may make a verbal profession but it's GOD who sees the heart and knows what is hidden from us

Yeah, no one is saying we know the heart of man or mind of God, although some ignorantly try and force us into this position. An example would be a question that was asked earlier. How do you know who the elect are? If you are elect, you by default must know who all the elect are. This was a ridiculous question and assertion. A man can know he is saved, but can't know who God will save out of the rest of the world. It's ridiculous.

 

[ForthAngel]

I will ask you and your buddies again...How do you reconcile this theology with the fact that 1/3 of the angles exercised their own free will/choice to fall with Satan....

We know what the will and work of angels are, because it tells us in the Word. If angels have free will/choice and are not elected how can we humans be any different.

And I will give you the same answer again. Nothing is revealed about the state of the will of angels, but that of man. God has said our will is in bondage to sin. Dead in sins, slaves to sin, by nature children of wrath, obedient to our master, etc.

 

[miknik5]

Let me be clear. We do have the right to judge the flesh but we don't judge by the flesh other than to know and understand one thing only. Those who are in CHRIST and those who are (still) outside THE DOOR

If any man is in CHRIST, he is a new creation and he has ONE MASTER who will judge him
we are to correct one another yes. And we are to pray for one another yes

but leave final judgement to the LORD who alone will expose the hidden motives of the hearts

Then a man will receive his praise from the ONE whom
he truly desired to serve

 

[ForthAngel]

Let me be clear. We do have the right to judge the flesh but we don't judge by the flesh other than to know and understand one thing only. Those who are in CHRIST and those who are (still) outside THE DOOR

If any man is in CHRIST, he is a new creation and he has ONE MASTER who will judge him
we are to correct one another yes. And we are to pray for one another yes

but leave final judgement to the LORD who alone will expose the hidden motives of the hearts

Then a man will receive his praise from the ONE whom
he truly desired to serve

I think we have clear scriptural guidelines by which we would rightly judge someone. We can't make a final judgment on anyone because we don't know the future, but we can see outward signs that give us a good idea of where they stand in Christ, if they stand in Christ at all, and act accordingly. One example would be refuting false teachers and exposing them. We are called to do this and in order to do this we have to make a judgment call.

 

[lonestar26]

An example would be a question that was asked earlier. How do you know who the elect are? If you are elect, you by default must know who all the elect are. This was a ridiculous question and assertion. A man can know he is saved, but can't know who God will save out of the rest of the world. It's ridiculous.

I was the one who asked the "ridiculous" question and You just contradicted yourself and in major fashion you posted and replied earlier to that question, "how does anyone know if they are saved" Now you state you can know.

Which is it now? does an elect know they are elect or not?

The Bible you do not read or adhere to tells you how God will save the rest of the world

 

[miknik5]

Salvation did not come to angels

 

[lonestar26]

I think we have clear scriptural guidelines by which we would rightly judge someone. We can't make a final judgment on anyone because we don't know the future, but we can see outward signs that give us a good idea of where they stand in Christ, if they stand in Christ at all, and act accordingly. One example would be refuting false teachers and exposing them. We are called to do this and in order to do this we have to make a judgment call.

The Word says it is a heart condition that produces fruit and it is by that fruit that we judge by and not by outside signs.

 

[miknik5]

I think we have clear scriptural guidelines by which we would rightly judge someone. We can't make a final judgment on anyone because we don't know the future, but we can see outward signs that give us a good idea of where they stand in Christ, if they stand in Christ at all, and act accordingly. One example would be refuting false teachers and exposing them. We are called to do this and in order to do this we have to make a judgment call.

Thank you so much!! Yes you said it clearly

 

[miknik5]

The Word says it is a heart condition that produces fruit and it is by that fruit that we judge by and not by outside signs.

Do you understand that in this situation the produced fruit is the outside sign

 

[ForthAngel]

I was the one who asked the "ridiculous" question and You just contradicted yourself and in major fashion you posted and replied earlier to that question, "how does anyone know if they are saved" Now you state you can know.

Which is it now? does an elect know they are elect or not?

The Bible you do not read or adhere to tells you how God will save the rest of the world

Yes, we know we are elect, aka saved to those that have removed the word elect from their bibles along with other verses that make them uncomfortable. Your question went further in stating that if we can know when we are saved, why don't we recognize all the elect. As if we have some crystal ball showing us those God has saved or will choose to save. God saves the rest of the world (aka his ELECT) by means of the Gospel. It really isn't that hard to understand.

 

[lonestar26]

Salvation did not come to angels

This is true.

The point is that if God gave his created spirit beings free will/choice, then why would he not do that for the rest of his creations?

 

[ForthAngel]

The Word says it is a heart condition that produces fruit and it is by that fruit that we judge by and not by outside signs.

So, fruit isn't an external sign of the internal condition? You make judgments based on...? Some esoteric knowledge of someone based on your super spiritual ability to judge hearts?

 

[miknik5]

I was the one who asked the "ridiculous" question and You just contradicted yourself and in major fashion you posted and replied earlier to that question, "how does anyone know if they are saved" Now you state you can know.

Which is it now? does an elect know they are elect or not?

The Bible you do not read or adhere to tells you how God will save the rest of the world

Read John 5 sir

there sre those who have heard the voice of the SON of GOD now
but a time will come when all will hear the VOICE of the SON of GOD and will rise to be judged according to their works

but not all will be saved

 

[miknik5]

This is true.

The point is that if God gave his created spirit beings free will/choice, then why would he not do that for the rest of his creations?

To glorify THE ONE and ONLY
whom satan also knew of

why do you think Satan rebelled?
he was a covering angel...he didn't want to (temporarily) cover imperfect man until the fullness would come