God is not Mysterious

[Starcrash]

You knock yourself out on those cat forums.

I think he's just taking a poke at me. My picture shows a cat -- not because I love cats, but just because I thought the picture was awesome. I used to play poker online and used this pic as my avatar, and when people asked why, I'd say "I'm hunting fish (poor poker players)".

 

[ColinCat]

What new information dude?
Maybe you'd have better luck on those forums too Colincat....another "cat"...hmm, didn't catch that when I posted my last one.

Do you guys need hugs or something?
Why the bitterness towards Christianity....why not Muslims, or Buddhists,
.......or 'Beliebers'
Go "correct" Justin Bieber's fans.

You might have an actual argument against those guys?

Maybe they could provide an actual argument... after all Justin Beiber exists.

 

[Sirk]

Thing is, science is ever changing when new information comes to light.

Religion is never changing, regardless of what new information comes to light.

You knock yourself out on those cat forums.

the funny thing is that the bible has stayed the same while archeology keeps backing it up. Conversely, you could build a ladder to Cygnus x-1 with the "science" that's been debunked and continues to be every day. The God of Isaac Abraham and Jacob is the same yesterday today and tomorrow. The god of science is fickle little god that can't make up his mind because his mind is the mind if man. Jokes on you.

 

[Starcrash]

What new information dude?

Consider the age of the Earth. As scientists discovered new data, the calculation became more and more precise. According to Christians, it will always be as old as the bible says it is, no matter what new data are collected.

Imagine that someone asked you how far from you right now the mailbox is. You could give a rough guess, and then could even measure it with a tape measure if you wanted something more exact. If you had a laser-guided measuring instrument that you could aim from your current spot directly at the mailbox, you'd get an even better measurement. These changes in your estimate don't reflect that "your guesses can't be accepted", but rather that you're willing to change your mind when better data come along.

 

[ColinCat]

the funny thing is that the bible has stayed the same while archeology keeps backing it up. Conversely, you could build a ladder to Cygnus x-1 with the "science" that's been debunked and continues to be every day. The God of Isaac Abraham and Jacob is the same yesterday today and tomorrow. The god of science is fickle little god that can't make up his mind because his mind is the mind if man. Jokes on you.

The buildings and locations described in spiderman comics actually exist too.. Does that mean spiderman is real?

 

[Reborn]

Put away your straw men. It's like you have a new one every time I post.

I didn't claim that "because you don't all agree, there is a flaw in Christianity". I believe it, but I said no such thing. And you immediately went to this "two rights make a wrong" fallacy yet again by taking a poke at science. Is disagreement a bad thing or good thing? If bad, then you ought to be ashamed of your own. If good, then stop ridiculing science for having disagreement. Science gets better by correcting its old mistakes. Disagreement among Christians shouldn't happen because you allegedly have God to moderate all disputes. You don't, because he doesn't exist.

Your post both made excuses for finding God mysterious (such as the Problem of Evil that you alluded to as "bad things happen to good people") and for not finding Him mysterious (the bible can be read and understood even by children). ColinCat gave examples of Christians finding God mysterious sometimes and not at other times, and your rebuttal was to give examples where you find God mysterious sometimes and not at other times. You didn't refute his argument, but rather proved it.

Huh?
Too long of a response, man.
As you can see I am not trying to do anything, but respond to you two?

You have made it apparent that you are not here to learn anything from anyone......

Unlike others, I could care less how an Atheist thinks of us.
You all constantly say the same things over and over and over.

BTW, You just say the same things Colincat says over and over too.
Nothing new fellas.

'Human' should be coming around soon?

 

[Starcrash]

the funny thing is that the bible has stayed the same while archeology keeps backing it up. Conversely, you could build a ladder to Cygnus x-1 with the "science" that's been debunked and continues to be every day. The God of Isaac Abraham and Jacob is the same yesterday today and tomorrow. The god of science is fickle little god that can't make up his mind because his mind is the mind if man. Jokes on you.

Same answer to you as given to Reborn. Of course old science gets "debunked" as it gets replaced with theories that explain more observations. The Muslims haven't updated their thinking any more than Christians have, and it certainly isn't because "they were right the first time". It's because fundamentalists can't deal with new information, and have no process to make their beliefs more accurate.

 

[Reborn]

Maybe they could provide an actual argument... after all Justin Beiber exists.

So sad man.
You come here just to bash Christians?

Is your XBox broke? You bored?

Seriously?

 

[MyLighthouse]

That's true -- it is (according to the bible) God's will that none should perish. So then, none should perish... unless God's will isn't done. And yet I'm sure that there are Christians that pray that none should perish, and God's will shouldn't be any more of a hindrance to answered prayer than God's ability to carry it out is. So why do "some perish"?

As an atheist, the obvious answer is that God doesn't answer such prayers (due to non-existence). This is the same answer that I imagine you'd give to a Muslim who is curious about why Allah's will isn't always carried out. It's an easy answer to spot when you aren't biased to believe that a prayer must be answered.

Realize it was God's will for Lucifer to be the most handsome and talented angel. It was God's will for mankind to live in a world that was nothing but good.

If God is All powerful why doesn't He stop it?
If God is loving why does He allow some to perish?
If God is all knowing why doesn't He stop things before hand?

The argument as you already know is call freewill. God wants you to be saved, why aren't you? People pray for you to be saved, why aren't you? Because you don't want to right, you don't believe in Him. If God is all-loving He isn't going to make you want Him, by forcing you because He's all-powerful. He knows what will save you, but doesn't again want to force you.

Same answer to everything.

Like I said the problem is putting it all on God when it's us. Lucifer wanted to be higher than God, mankind wanted to be their own God. God allows us to fully exercise our freewill because it allows mankind to be able to search, and understand the things of life, as well as live in harmony with God. Yet because of freewill one equally has no pressure to live with God either.

This also effects prayer. I've heard from eye witness people who got healed in various ways, one being deafness another blindness, and after being healed, guess what? They prayed to be deaf and blind again. It was God's will for them to hear and see, but their will got in the way.

The Muslim argument would be what as you started this post with, that God is mysterious, we can't always know His ways. Remember Muslims don't believe you can personally know God.

And as I said I do believe God says No, who am I or whose anyone to think God even has to listen to us? He never says He will answer all our prayers, or that all of them will be answered.

Every human being contains bias (you believe that from non-existence prayer is an abstract thought anyway, it that not bias?). Just because I'm a Christian now doesn't mean I always was. I was an atheist and study various beliefs and religions. I only have a narrow Christian view, when I have not always been a Christian? Bias? Everyone becomes or gets saved, it's something you chose right?

Why are you on a Christian website by the way? Made a wrong turn I think Starcrash

 

[ColinCat]

Huh?
Too long of a response, man.
As you can see I am not trying to do anything, but respond to you two?

You have made it apparent that you are not here to learn anything from anyone......

Unlike others, I could care less how an Atheist thinks of us.
You all constantly say the same things over and over and over.

BTW, You just say the same things Colincat says over and over too.
Nothing new fellas.

'Human' should be coming around soon?

Ever wondered why the same things are said and the same questions are asked? Because there hasn't been a good enough response to them. The fact that atheists say the same things and ask the same questions all the time should ring alarm bells that there isn't sufficient evidence to respond with.

 

[Starcrash]

Huh?
You have made it apparent that you are not here to learn anything from anyone......

Are you claiming to have a high road here? You haven't presented anything I haven't heard before, so of course I'm not learning anything. You admitted tl;dr to my post, suggesting that you aren't here to learn anything... hypocrite.

 

[Reborn]

Ever wondered why the same things are said and the same questions are asked? Because there hasn't been a good enough response to them. The fact that atheists say the same things and ask the same questions all the time should ring alarm bells that there isn't sufficient evidence to respond with.

Okay.
Well, we are happy.
Why does that bug you?

So why aren't you happy for us man!??
Come oooooon....be happy......wait......did you take lunch money from other kids in school?

Meanie.

 

[ColinCat]

This also effects prayer. I've heard from eye witness people who got healed in various ways, one being deafness another blindness, and after being healed, guess what? They prayed to be deaf and blind again. It was God's will for them to hear and see, but their will got in the way.

Did you just believe this on face value? Have you got anything that backs this claim up?

 

[ColinCat]

Okay.
Well, we are happy.
Why does that bug you?

So why aren't you happy for us man!??
Come oooooon....be happy......wait......did you take lunch money from other kids in school?

Meanie.

Lol no, most of the kids in school were on free lunches so there was nothing to take

 

[Reborn]

Are you claiming to have a high road here? You haven't presented anything I haven't heard before, so of course I'm not learning anything. You admitted tl;dr to my post, suggesting that you aren't here to learn anything... hypocrite.

Huh?
I just don't feel like talking to you.
Cool?
......you can move on to bash others who will engage with you.

I think I made my point with you on the other thread.
You are just here to stir up things amongst brothers and sisters.

Go get your PS4 fixed.

 

[Sirk]

The buildings and locations described in spiderman comics actually exist too.. Does that mean spiderman is real?

So is vlad the impalers castle. Christianity's wild claims should've been easily and widely debunked. Too many people saw jesus resurrected with their own two eyes.....and that just the tip of the iceberg of evidence.....

 

[ColinCat]

So is vlad the impalers castle. Christianity's wild claims should've been easily and widely debunked. Too many people saw jesus resurrected with their own two eyes.....and that just the tip of the iceberg of evidence.....

Back it up.. Only according to the story were there eye witnesses.

That's not evidence at all.

 

[Elin]

Skeptics often challenge Christians to prove that prayers are answered, and we often hear the same thing: "God's ways are mysterious". This is said so that scientific experiments that disprove the power of prayer are discounted as having an extra variable that can't be accounted for -- God's will.

But why should that be "variable"? Christians claim that God's nature is consistent and doesn't change over time. In fact, this perfect consistency ought to make God the most predictable being in existence, and not even slightly mysterious. If God answered someone's prayer for healing but not another person's, then the reason should be discoverable in principal if not also in practice.*

So why do Christians keep offering this defense? Why aren't they trying to discover God's unchanging nature by studying the pattern of which prayers are given which answers?


*On the topic of healing, the New Testament is extremely consistent. Jesus healed everyone who asked for it, never once citing a greater need for someone to remain sick or to die from sickness. If prayer is actually answered, then prayers for healing ought to never be answered with a "no" if Jesus' nature hasn't changed.

You're kidding, right?

 

[Sirk]

Where's the body. There was enough people that hated jesus. Why didn't they produce the body to shut it down?

 

[Starcrash]

Realize it was God's will for Lucifer to be the most handsome and talented angel. It was God's will for mankind to live in a world that was nothing but good.

If God is All powerful why doesn't He stop it?
If God is loving why does He allow some to perish?
If God is all knowing why doesn't He stop things before hand?

The argument as you already know is call freewill. God wants you to be saved, why aren't you? People pray for you to be saved, why aren't you? Because you don't want to right, you don't believe in Him. If God is all-loving He isn't going to make you want Him, by forcing you because He's all-powerful. He knows what will save you, but doesn't again want to force you.

Same answer to everything.

Like I said the problem is putting it all on God when it's us. Lucifer wanted to be higher than God, mankind wanted to be their own God. God allows us to fully exercise our freewill because it allows mankind to be able to search, and understand the things of life, as well as live in harmony with God. Yet because of freewill one equally has no pressure to live with God either.

This also effects prayer. I've heard from eye witness people who got healed in various ways, one being deafness another blindness, and after being healed, guess what? They prayed to be deaf and blind again. It was God's will for them to hear and see, but their will got in the way.

The Muslim argument would be what as you started this post with, that God is mysterious, we can't always know His ways. Remember Muslims don't believe you can personally know God.

And as I said I do believe God says No, who am I or whose anyone to think God even has to listen to us? He never says He will answer all our prayers, or that all of them will be answered.

Every human being contains bias (you believe that from non-existence prayer is an abstract thought anyway, it that not bias?). Just because I'm a Christian now doesn't mean I always was. I was an atheist and study various beliefs and religions. I only have a narrow Christian view, when I have not always been a Christian? Bias? Everyone becomes or gets saved, it's something you chose right?

Why are you on a Christian website by the way? Made a wrong turn I think Starcrash

I didn't make a wrong turn. The site is called "Christian Chat". What would I expect to find here? You, on the other hand, are discussing scripture with people who are already saved. Are you sure that you are on the right site? If you want to lead others to salvation, it isn't hard on the internet to find people who "need" it.

I've heard the free will argument plenty of times. It isn't consistent. Why are Lucifer and the angels never given the freedom to become Christian? After all, they believe in God. It's like they only had one shot, and then were never offered forgiveness.

Similarly, there are victims of rape every day. There are still slaves in Southeast Asia. Women often do things against their will after being given Rohypnol (roofies). God allows those people to be stripped of free will by fellow humans. Why would God allow that if he values free will?

Finally, the bible doesn't back up the idea of free will in its stories. We all know about Pharoah having his heart hardened. Jonah was threatened with death if he didn't preach to Ninevah. We're told that heaven is a place where everyone will serve God, with no choice to rebel. These aren't instances of free will.

While I could "become saved", I don't for the very reason that you don't take up Muslims on their offer of conversion. They haven't offered any reason for you to believe that Allah is real, so why would you? Same for me. You keep asserting that I should become saved, but you offer not a single reason.

So go on assuming that people don't get healed because "their will got in the way". It's not as if you can do any more than merely assert that it's true. You have no evidence, just denial. You could look into it deeper, I suppose, but obviously one possible conclusion is one that you won't allow yourself to come to... yes, because of bias. You can see it in me, but somehow believe yourself to be exempt.