God is not Mysterious

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JesusLives

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2013
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#82
Do you believe that God's power is incapable of changing my mind? This is the kind of belief that an atheist would also share. If you believe in the power of prayer, then certainly you must believe it's possible to convince me. If the former Saul (later turned Paul) was arguing against you, would you also just shrug and claim that nothing would ever change the mind of a person who killed Christians for a living?

An unbeliever can give you an outside perspective. Otherwise you're spending your time in an echo chamber -- and it appears that you personally would prefer this.
No.....I actually believe that God's power is capable of changing your mind it is just that He chooses not to as He would rather you change your mind willingly and come to Him from love for what He has done to save you rather than to force you to change. God is capable to do anything He would want to do.
 

Reborn

Senior Member
Nov 16, 2014
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#83
Colincat and I have a mutual disrespect for each others points of view.
We are on the same page there.

It's all love.:)
 
Sep 14, 2014
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#84
Where's the body. There was enough people that hated jesus. Why didn't they produce the body to shut it down?
There are many possibilities, and here's two for starters..

What if someone moved the body?

What if none of it actually happened the way the story said it did?
 
Aug 5, 2013
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#85
Where's the body. There was enough people that hated jesus. Why didn't they produce the body to shut it down?
There are plenty of reasons. The most obvious is that, if Jesus never existed, there was no body to produce. Second, even if there was a historical Jesus, then the stories spread about his death and resurrection came long after his death. By that point, no one knew where his tomb was. This is verified by the long passage of time before Jesus' alleged tomb was venerated.

But also consider that bodies rot. Even the stories doesn't suggest that Jesus was embalmed. How long do you expect his body to last, and more importantly, be recognizable?

There's plenty of reasons not to believe any of the resurrection stories, not the least of which is the many contradictions between them.
 
S

Sirk

Guest
#86
There are many possibilities, and here's two for starters..

What if someone moved the body?

What if none of it actually happened the way the story said it did?
cool. The stolen body theory. I misjudged you and thought you were gonna go with the jesus had a twin theory. The roman guards surely wouldve let that happen. Not to mention that his disciples QUIT AND WENT BACK TO THEIR OLD LIVES!!!!! They had given up. They thought Jesus was dead.
 
Aug 5, 2013
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#87
No.....I actually believe that God's power is capable of changing your mind it is just that He chooses not to as He would rather you change your mind willingly and come to Him from love for what He has done to save you rather than to force you to change. God is capable to do anything He would want to do.
So... God is capable of changing my mind if I do it first? What exactly would God's role be in that? People convert to religions every day, many of them non-Christian, and yet we don't believe that any god has a role in those conversions.

This is rationalizing and victim-blaming. Have you even tried talking to God and asking Him what would be effective? It certainly wasn't applied here.
 

JesusLives

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2013
14,551
2,172
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#88
Well God is certainly a mystery to me in that Why would anyone want to save an enemy? I mean we hated Him and killed His Son and God knew that we humans would do such a thing and yet He still sent His son Jesus to die for your and my sins.... Yes, that is a mystery to me because if I had made a defective product I probably would have trashed it and started over but then again I am NOT God and I don't think like He thinks and I don't love the way He loves.....that is a mystery to me that He would love us so much as to not trash us/zap us out of existence and start over. He could have you know but He chose not to do that.... Really mysterious.....
 

Reborn

Senior Member
Nov 16, 2014
4,087
216
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#89
Sorry, JL, Elin, Sirk......I pass it off to you all.

Good luck guys.

I don't do well with repeating myself........
I don't do well with repeating myself........
I don't do well with repeating myself........
 
Sep 14, 2014
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#90
cool. The stolen body theory. I misjudged you and thought you were gonna go with the jesus had a twin theory. The roman guards surely wouldve let that happen. Not to mention that his disciples QUIT AND WENT BACK TO THEIR OLD LIVES!!!!! They had given up. They thought Jesus was dead.
I knew you'd focus on that answer out of the two.. How about we address the other one?
 
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Sirk

Guest
#91
I would also like someone to explain to me how in the world anyone in their right mind who were gonna make up a big story of which they were central characters would do so in such a way as to make themselves look like such idiots.
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
70,869
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#92
Sorry, JL, Elin, Sirk......I pass it off to you all.

Good luck guys.

I don't do well with repeating myself........
I don't do well with repeating myself........
I don't do well with repeating myself........

Ok we get it..you dont do well with repeating yourself..lol.. :)
 
Aug 5, 2013
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#93
cool. The stolen body theory. I misjudged you and thought you were gonna go with the jesus had a twin theory. The roman guards surely wouldve let that happen. Not to mention that his disciples QUIT AND WENT BACK TO THEIR OLD LIVES!!!!! They had given up. They thought Jesus was dead.
The "roman guards" were mentioned in Matthew... and nowhere else. And it smells of plot convenience. Not only did the women not arrive with any means of moving the boulder (as the gospel of Mark helpfully notes), but they didn't go with any way of getting past the guards. Kinda lucky that they all fell away, huh? But only in Matthew. The other gospels didn't see fit to mention the earthquake, guards, or angel appearing "like lightning" as if none of these things really mattered to those reading the story.
 

JesusLives

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2013
14,551
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#94
When god cures a headache, or finds someone a job, or puts someone in the right place at the right time then everyone seems to understand him perfectly. They know god helped them, they know god made them drive down the wrong road to prevent someone else getting run over. They understand god and know he cured their loved one.. They know god guided them to discover something that benefitted them.. They understood him all too well.

But, when you ask them about the third world, or amputees, or other atrocities in the world that happen on a regular basis then suddenly they don't understand gods ways. And he is mysterious... And we are reminded how gods ways are different than mans ways.


So which is it? Isnt it a coincidence that when the smaller things happen.. Easy regular day things.. then its god's work, we know its god's work and we know he did it all. But when it comes to the real problems of the world... Hes mysterious again.

So is he mysterious or not?
God has a plan for everyone - some are whole some are not but His plan is still in place for each one even you. We are the ones who choose whether we will go along with His plan and it is a mystery to us as we don't know the beginning from the end of our life but we know that God knows all about our lives. Some suffer some not so much but everyone is still a part of the plan......
 
Aug 5, 2013
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#95
I would also like someone to explain to me how in the world anyone in their right mind who were gonna make up a big story of which they were central characters would do so in such a way as to make themselves look like such idiots.
First of all, bible scholars don't believe that these stories were written by the "central characters". But more importantly, is self-deprecation so hard to wrap your mind around? I've heard it. You've heard it. It's not miraculous.
 
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Sirk

Guest
#96
I knew you'd focus on that answer out of the two.. How about we address the other one?
Oh you mean the one that said it didn't happen like the bible said it did? Like how the entirety of scripture is written thousands of years apart by 40 some odd authors in different languages yet is congruent in its message in every way.
 
Sep 14, 2014
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#97
Oh you mean the one that said it didn't happen like the bible said it did? Like how the entirety of scripture is written thousands of years apart by 40 some odd authors in different languages yet is congruent in its message in every way.
What, those specially selected books you mean?

Yeah its a miracle that those specially selected books that went in the bible had the same message running through them
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#98
God has given us over to our own debased minds to that we would come to Him, lovingly and willingly, and not forced.
There is no true love in forcing another to love you, so He sits back for a time to lets those who accept the calling to come to Him out of that love, respect, and honor Him for creating us to live.
The other aspect that some do not see is that satan is the prince of this world right now, and there are scriptures to prove it. Which is why there is so much suffering, pain, evil, and death in the world. If God was to come back now He would interfere with His own plan of waiting tell the time of the Gentiles is fulfilled.
 
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Sirk

Guest
#99
What, those specially selected books you mean?

Yeah its a miracle that those specially selected books that went in the bible had the same message running through them
it sure is. See youre gettin it.
 

JesusLives

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2013
14,551
2,172
113
So... God is capable of changing my mind if I do it first? What exactly would God's role be in that? People convert to religions every day, many of them non-Christian, and yet we don't believe that any god has a role in those conversions.

This is rationalizing and victim-blaming. Have you even tried talking to God and asking Him what would be effective? It certainly wasn't applied here.
There have been seeds planted in your life from day one and only you can allow those seeds to grow. People have prayed for you and it is your will that is refusing to change. God won't force you, but He could do anything He wanted He is God.