God LIED!
- Thread starter Budman
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
There's a middle aged man here in the town where I live that keeps what he needs to live and gives away the rest of his pay to those in need. He's not married and is happy to do this...
We are not all called to do this....But he's responding to God's call for HIS life.
And, yes, the good we could do will come naturally for those born of above.
We are not all called to do this....But he's responding to God's call for HIS life.
And, yes, the good we could do will come naturally for those born of above.
-
1
- Show all
No, you can't.
Charles Stanley said it best; Salvation is a gift. You can give it back only if the giver (God) accepts the return, and God has a no-return policy. There is absolutely no example in the bible that God has ever taken back from a believer the gift of salvation once it has been given. His love would keep Him from doing so. And in no way can it be taken back. A gift that can/will be taken back is no gift at all. True gifts have no strings attached. Once you place a condition of any kind on a gift, it becomes a trade, not a gift.
Christ came to seek and to save the lost. Why would He take back what He came to give?
Charles Stanley said it best; Salvation is a gift. You can give it back only if the giver (God) accepts the return, and God has a no-return policy. There is absolutely no example in the bible that God has ever taken back from a believer the gift of salvation once it has been given. His love would keep Him from doing so. And in no way can it be taken back. A gift that can/will be taken back is no gift at all. True gifts have no strings attached. Once you place a condition of any kind on a gift, it becomes a trade, not a gift.
Christ came to seek and to save the lost. Why would He take back what He came to give?
-
1
- Show all
I hear you, however I’m not claiming you have to follow Torah to be saved, only that in my walk and my belief it is a way to walk in purity, Torah is not a salvation tool but rather a walk and separate-from-the-world tool. You have your views from your studies and feel that the way you walk is correct, as do I, and the beauty of peaceful discussion without causing dissension especially in an online format is that we can all glean insight from eachother. Now then, with that being said I wish you peace and applaud your passion, whether or not I agree with you. Tis better to have passion than be lukewarm as we see in revelation.
-
1
- Show all
Greetings Shemuel,
I would also add to what Budman is saying: We are saved by trusting in Christ as the One who provided salvation perfectly and completely on our behalf. Jesus fulfilled the righteous requirements of the law on behalf of every believer, satisfying it completely.
It is Jesus who experienced God's wrath that all believers deserve, so that God's wrath no longer rests upon us.
When we believed in Him we were credited with righteousness and reconciled to God and that because God is looking at us through Christ's righteousness, not ours. As the scripture says:
"God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can’t take credit for this; it is a gift from God. Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it." - Eph.2:8 (NLT)
If we trust in our own works as requirements for salvation along side of Christ's finished work on the cross, then it is the same as saying that His sacrifice was insufficient. If we are following Christ and led by the Spirit, then we will fulfill the things of the law, yet we are not under the law, we died to it. And if we fail at anything, if we confess our sins He is faithful and just for forgive us our sins and to cleanse us of all unrighteousness.
I would also add to what Budman is saying: We are saved by trusting in Christ as the One who provided salvation perfectly and completely on our behalf. Jesus fulfilled the righteous requirements of the law on behalf of every believer, satisfying it completely.
It is Jesus who experienced God's wrath that all believers deserve, so that God's wrath no longer rests upon us.
When we believed in Him we were credited with righteousness and reconciled to God and that because God is looking at us through Christ's righteousness, not ours. As the scripture says:
"God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can’t take credit for this; it is a gift from God. Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it." - Eph.2:8 (NLT)
If we trust in our own works as requirements for salvation along side of Christ's finished work on the cross, then it is the same as saying that His sacrifice was insufficient. If we are following Christ and led by the Spirit, then we will fulfill the things of the law, yet we are not under the law, we died to it. And if we fail at anything, if we confess our sins He is faithful and just for forgive us our sins and to cleanse us of all unrighteousness.
Nothing we do can make us any more pure than what Jesus did for us.
As believers we have been made righteous, holy, and perfect.
You can't get any better than that.
But I applaud your desire to live a life pleasing to the Lord.
As believers we have been made righteous, holy, and perfect.
You can't get any better than that.
But I applaud your desire to live a life pleasing to the Lord.
I agree, the Messiah is the only way in which we are saved and our works can not save us. I do however believe that to love my God with all my heart soul and mind, I am to walk in His commandments which are listed in the Torah. I don’t say this as a “thou shalt also do” statement but rather a statement of what I feel I have been led to do in my studies and prayer as He says He knows we love Him by our obedience. Once again to make clear I don’t believe my works or obedience is what saves me, in fact salvation is only possible through the Messiah. But my walk and daily life I can do through the statutes written in order to do my best to not practice sin. Obedience has nothing to do with mercy and grace as those are items that we recieve not by our own doing but through Him alone.
I think i will believe the word of God over Charles
John 15:5-6 (KJV)
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
John 15:5-6 (KJV)
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
I believe "Traditions of Man, that makes VOID the Word of God", is being Mis-Interpreted, as "Works=Salvation."
Matthew 10
32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
Tis as true NOW, as it was when Jesus spoke these words to His Disciples!
John 14
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man COMETH unto the Father, BUT, by me.
Luke 9
23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.
Take up your cross, and go where? Unto the Father? WHY?!
There are "no works"required for any further salvation. CORRECT?
Revelation 20
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God AND of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Tell me again, how "picking up ones' cross", and going unto God, equals "works=Salvation?"
Romans 8
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
If, these verses cannot impress upon readers, that what is interpreted as "works=Slavation", but rather "Works REQUIRED" in "Expanding the "Word of God" WITHIN oneself?
Then? STICK with Jesus! As the traditions of men, have already succeeded in their "MAKING void!"
Matthew 10
32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
Tis as true NOW, as it was when Jesus spoke these words to His Disciples!
John 14
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man COMETH unto the Father, BUT, by me.
Luke 9
23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.
Take up your cross, and go where? Unto the Father? WHY?!
There are "no works"required for any further salvation. CORRECT?
Revelation 20
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God AND of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Tell me again, how "picking up ones' cross", and going unto God, equals "works=Salvation?"
Romans 8
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
If, these verses cannot impress upon readers, that what is interpreted as "works=Slavation", but rather "Works REQUIRED" in "Expanding the "Word of God" WITHIN oneself?
Then? STICK with Jesus! As the traditions of men, have already succeeded in their "MAKING void!"
Romans 11
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree (that be us gentiles): how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree? (this would be Israel)
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
Isaiah 28
9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
We all of us! Wait! With "baited" breath, brother!
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree (that be us gentiles): how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree? (this would be Israel)
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
Isaiah 28
9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
We all of us! Wait! With "baited" breath, brother!
-
1
- Show all
Dcontroversal,
You Misinterpret how I wrote that, I was saying the agreement is on Messiah being the only way to salvation. Period. Then second point being living a life led by the spirit, not an And statement of being necessity but that we both agree that our lives should be led by the spirit. I see how you read it, but also did not ask for clarification. I was not saying you must do both to be saved. As I have stated a few times, the only way to be saved is through the sacrifice of our Messiah. I appreciate you jumping in and trying to clarify what you thought I was saying, but I am happy to clarify what my sentence actually said and expound again that the only ay to be saved is through Messiah. We should also lead lives lead by the spirit, we should also love God with all our hearts souls and minds, and we should also love our neighbors as our selves. See how it was a collection of statements and not a continuation of one thought? Thanks for your input though, i do appreciate your insight.
You Misinterpret how I wrote that, I was saying the agreement is on Messiah being the only way to salvation. Period. Then second point being living a life led by the spirit, not an And statement of being necessity but that we both agree that our lives should be led by the spirit. I see how you read it, but also did not ask for clarification. I was not saying you must do both to be saved. As I have stated a few times, the only way to be saved is through the sacrifice of our Messiah. I appreciate you jumping in and trying to clarify what you thought I was saying, but I am happy to clarify what my sentence actually said and expound again that the only ay to be saved is through Messiah. We should also lead lives lead by the spirit, we should also love God with all our hearts souls and minds, and we should also love our neighbors as our selves. See how it was a collection of statements and not a continuation of one thought? Thanks for your input though, i do appreciate your insight.
-
1
-
1
- Show all
~~~~~~~~
I liked what my cousin ( who was a pastor at that time he's deceased now) said...He said next time someone says they can lose their salvation, ask them how many sins it will take to be lost ...so I ask a lady at work that question when she announced you can be lost, she said only one sin will make you lost.... I said well, if one sin will make you lost again, then wouldn't you be lost everyday, since we sin daily. She said that is why you repent.... I said, "well, if you are lost( which means you do not have Christ living inside you as your master even tho you ask him to be master and agreed to be his child) then the Bible says repent and be baptized....so if we sin daily as you see us being lost after only one sin....then we would have to get baptized daily cause if you are lost, the steps after getting saved is to be baptized. she digested that awhile and got up and left.
……………..we are sealed …. " Eph. ...And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption "...
….sealed with what:? The Blood of Jesus.
if satan put his hand through that blood to pluck that soul...……….Jesus blood is salvation blood, satan isn't going near his blood..
satan knows the bible well, he also BELIEVES and trembles. ( James 2:19 )
neither shall ANY man pluck them out of my hand.(JOHN 10:28)
once we are his children, no one can have us.
I have 2 children, they are grown now...what if they decided to not have a thing to do with me, and say they have no mother or dad....will they still be my kids...….I will answer that ..Yes....
we are borned again when we ask him to be master of us, we become his children...
…….. I serve a mighty God, no one can go up against him. Praise the Lord.
I liked what my cousin ( who was a pastor at that time he's deceased now) said...He said next time someone says they can lose their salvation, ask them how many sins it will take to be lost ...so I ask a lady at work that question when she announced you can be lost, she said only one sin will make you lost.... I said well, if one sin will make you lost again, then wouldn't you be lost everyday, since we sin daily. She said that is why you repent.... I said, "well, if you are lost( which means you do not have Christ living inside you as your master even tho you ask him to be master and agreed to be his child) then the Bible says repent and be baptized....so if we sin daily as you see us being lost after only one sin....then we would have to get baptized daily cause if you are lost, the steps after getting saved is to be baptized. she digested that awhile and got up and left.
……………..we are sealed …. " Eph. ...And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption "...
….sealed with what:? The Blood of Jesus.
if satan put his hand through that blood to pluck that soul...……….Jesus blood is salvation blood, satan isn't going near his blood..
satan knows the bible well, he also BELIEVES and trembles. ( James 2:19 )
neither shall ANY man pluck them out of my hand.(JOHN 10:28)
once we are his children, no one can have us.
I have 2 children, they are grown now...what if they decided to not have a thing to do with me, and say they have no mother or dad....will they still be my kids...….I will answer that ..Yes....
we are borned again when we ask him to be master of us, we become his children...
…….. I serve a mighty God, no one can go up against him. Praise the Lord.
-
1
- Show all