"God loves everyone" - false

DBurrage · May 27, 2020

Yes you're right, we're misunderstanding each other.

Yo be honest I'm not entirely sure where 🤣

Dave-L · May 27, 2020

If we have anything in us God can love, we rob him of his glory. Because the more repulsive we are in our natural state, the more grace it takes to save us. Think of the love it took to beat Jesus to a bloody pulp in our place. In his crucifixion because of our wickedness. It took all the blood his heart could provide to save even one of us.

Blain · May 27, 2020

DBurrage said:

I agree that he does not love everyone, he may have love for them but unless they accept his love then he cannot love them as he loves his own. He loves them enough to want them to be saved but he also despises evil and hates the wicked.
His love is a gift meaning it is not forced upon us we have to accept it agape love is a term to define the relationship between the believer and him, yes he loved us enough to send his only son for us but it is kind of like how you love someone but they refuse to change their ways and keep doing evil so you have to leave them to their own accord.
My uncle kenny is a major drug addict he is family and I love him but he refuses to change his ways and continues to steal lie and do whatever it takes to gwet his fix and so until he is actually ready to change his ways while I love him I cannot love him in the same way as my sister who is kind and always tries to do what is right.
Loving unconditionally is the fruit of the spirit but at the same time we have to understand that God is both a lion and a lamb, he cares about people but to love them as agape love there has to be an actual relationship.
If people don't care and continue to do as they please how can he love them in that way? he hates evil and the constant desire and pleasure in sin keeps him away because he is pure and holy only when they come to him can he show them his love.
Personally I have enjoyed your threads just so you know

DBurrage · May 27, 2020

Blain said:

I agree that he does not love everyone, he may have love for them but unless they accept his love then he cannot love them as he loves his own. He loves them enough to want them to be saved but he also despises evil and hates the wicked.
His love is a gift meaning it is not forced upon us we have to accept it agape love is a term to define the relationship between the believer and him, yes he loved us enough to send his only son for us but it is kind of like how you love someone but they refuse to change their ways and keep doing evil so you have to leave them to their own accord.
My uncle kenny is a major drug addict he is family and I love him but he refuses to change his ways and continues to steal lie and do whatever it takes to gwet his fix and so until he is actually ready to change his ways while I love him I cannot love him in the same way as my sister who is kind and always tries to do what is right.
Loving unconditionally is the fruit of the spirit but at the same time we have to understand that God is both a lion and a lamb, he cares about people but to love them as agape love there has to be an actual relationship.
If people don't care and continue to do as they please how can he love them in that way? he hates evil and the constant desire and pleasure in sin keeps him away because he is pure and holy only when they come to him can he show them his love.
Personally I have enjoyed your threads just so you know

"Personally I have enjoyed your threads just so you know"

Thank you

Blain · May 27, 2020

DBurrage said:

Well I know it can be discouraging to be hounded for threads or posts you are lead to make and people can be less than understanding of what you are actually saying based on their perception so sometimes it is a blessing to know that there are those out there who are listening.

And I say listening in particular because there is a difference between hearing what someone is saying and listening to what they are saying

DBurrage · May 27, 2020

Blain said:

I think very many Christians, especially young Christians, are quite frankly lazy.

For example at the 'church' I used to go to, a Hillsong affiliated 'church', most people didn't independently read the Bible.
And because of this they didn't realise that they were being fed the false doctrine of the prosperity gospel (see my thread on tithing).
Most of the people at the 'church' tithed "because that's what we do at this church".

I thoroughly dislike lazy Christianity:
Beliefs that are based on other people's interpretation of scripture, or on accepted wisdom.

This is one of the reasons for starting some of these threads - and you've seen the fracas some of my threads have created!

DWR · May 27, 2020

DBurrage said:

Could I ask my brothers and sisters to faithfully read the whole post and seek to understand, rather than have a knee jerk reaction to the thread title.
Sorry that I feel I have to say this, but the reaction I've got in other threads has been as a result of a reaction to the thread title from people who haven't sought to understand the thread content

There are many generalised expressions within our faith, that if you take the time to pick apart, just aren't true.
"God loves everyone" is one such false expression.
"Jesus died for everybody's sins" is another one, which is covered in another thread.

John 3:16 is always cited as support for "God loves everyone", but the verse does not say these words.
Below is the full passage that shows the context of the often referenced verse:

John 3:16:
"That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned; but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten God. 19 And this is the condemnation that light is come into the world and men loved darkness rather than light because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved"

Notice that the verse does not say "God loves everyone".
It says that whosoever believeth should not perish but have eternal life.

Verse 15 always seems to be left out of the "God loves everyone" message because it is restrictive, and does not suit the purpose of those who push the "God loves everyone" message.

"For God so loved the world" refers to the fact that Jesus was speaking to a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews (John 16:1) who believed that only the Jews were saved to the exclusion of the rest of the world. John 3:18 and 19 clear up any question about the matter.

"God loves everyone" is straight from the mind of satan and the ministers that serve him. In essence it teaches that man can lead a sinful life, violate the commandments of God daily, not fear him and still go to heaven.

At this point there may be a few people who will equate having to keep the commandments of God with preaching a 'salvation by works' doctrine, but this is not the case. Those who say this do so because they have no intention of trying to keep God's commandments, and so they seek to accuse.

John 14:15
"If you love me, keep my commandments".

John 15:14
"You are my friends if you do what I command you".

Ecclesiastes 12:13
"Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man".

"God loves everyone" doctrine implies that man does not have to be accountable for his/her sins. It teaches that because "God loves everyone", that there is no need to fear him.

"God loves everyone", aka
"God loves and accepts everyone no matter what", "God's attributes are ONLY love and forgiveness for all", "God has no anger and is accepting of all behaviors".
False:

Rev 14:10
Jeremiah 25:15
Jude 14-15
Rev 14:11
Deut 32:22
Isaiah 30:33
2 Thes 1:6
2 Thes 1:8-9
Matthew 10:34-35
Matthew 7:21
Matthew 7:22-23
Matthew 12:30
Matthew 12:34-35
Matthew 12: 36-37
Matthew 15:8-9
Matthew 23:14
Matthew 23:15
Matthew 23:29-33
Mark 9:42-48
Mark 16:16
Luke 13:23-28
Luke 16:19-31
Luke 18:6-8
John 8:44
John 17:9
Rev 21:8
Isaiah 13:9
Isaiah 66:24
Psalms 7:11
Romans 1:18
1 Thes 5:3
2 Peter 2:9-10
Rev 6:10
Rev 6:15-17
Rev 20:12-15
Psalms 55:15

I could continue quoting scripture in order to reveal the true nature of God, which flies in the face of the "God loves everyone" doctrine, but I think 36 verses will suffice for now

I believe I now understand where you are coming from after reading this post.
You have a very severer reading comprehension disorder.

DBurrage · May 27, 2020

DWR said:

"severer".

Did I read that right?

Going_Nowhere · May 27, 2020

God doesn't love me, that's for sure.

DBurrage · May 27, 2020

Going_Nowhere said:

Who, God?
Why?

DrGuyPhD · May 27, 2020

DBurrage said:

Hey! Thanks for this post. As a teenager, you seem very smart and seem to have put a lot of time into this which is kind of intimidating. I would love to take a quick stab at it if you don't mind. I see what you mean. I had to take a moment to look at the verse in my bible to see where you were coming from. However, I think where our ideas disband on this is that despite who Jesus was talking to, the phrase "for God so love the world" still points to the fact that God loves not only the saved but the unsaved. I do not doubt that the context is wrong, but I think in light of it, even if the Jews believed they were the only ones who were saved, Jesus, in quoting this scripture, tells us that God gave his only son not just for the saved but for the whole world. This type of sacrifice is not one that could have been done without the unfailing love that our Lord possesses. In a matter of fact, we our given the meaning of love in this example of great sacrifice. So yes, God does love everyone. However, I do not FULLY disagree with you. I think there has been an unhealthy rumor that God's love means that we are not responsible for our actions and we can do whatever we want. I disagree with that just like you. I think that yes, God loves us all. But he can hates what we do. He hates sin. And unless we accept his son Jesus Christ and what he did on the cross, we are to pay the price for our sins in eternal damnation. Another thing about God is that he loves us despite our reaction toward him. Jonah sees this when he talks about the fact that God is eager to forgive, slow to anger, and filled with unfailing love. He doesn't mean that there will be no punishment for our sins but that God is someone that if we repent of our sins, he will be there to heal and reveal himself to us. I'm sorry that you came to such a conclusion about God because if that was the case, then Jesus would not have died for ALL sins. He would have died for some of them. But seeing that we all fall short of the glory of God, His everlasting love and faithfulness is there for us to receive when we decide to give our lives to Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior. I hope this helped!!

DrGuyPhD · May 27, 2020

Going_Nowhere said:

Aww, don't say that. As I said, God might not love our actions. If they are in contradiction with his commandments, then God does hate our actions. But he loves us. So no matter what, God loves you. And if you know the Lord Jesus Christ, then God will work to transform you into the image of wholeness and peace he wants to see. We can't do it on our own. We can not live life on our own. It was not created to work that way. But in giving your life to Jesus Christ and accepting him as your Lord and Savior, we enter back into the presence of God in relationship with him. And in doing so, "the Sovereign lord is our strength. He makes me as surefooted as a deer, able to tread upon the heights" of life.

blue_ladybug · May 27, 2020

"God loves everyone- false"

Okayeeeeeeeeeeee..

So Jesus only died for SOME of us? He loved only SOME of us? Pray tell, HOW did He pick and choose which of us He loved most?? How did he pick and choose which of us to die for?

blue_ladybug · May 27, 2020

eternally-gratefull said:

So God does not love his creation?

I think that pretty much says all we need to know

John 3: 16 says God so loved the world.

That quite clearly states he loved all of his creation.. The bible says he even loves the birds, enough he feeds them. So why would he HATE the world?

He hates sin, yes..

But the sinner?

He died for the sinner.. Because he loved them, willing that NON should perish.[/QUOTE]

Dang you, auto carrot!!!

Blain · May 27, 2020

DWR said:

Do you think your being funny? Regardless if you agree with him or not there is no need to be rude at the very least he is tryng to get people to look deeper at matters instead of simply accepting the status quo

Blain · May 27, 2020

blue_ladybug said:

The way I see it he cares for everyone and does love us but we have to accept his love to fully experience it and know it, I mean I cannot say he has no love for everyone but I do think there are people who he cannot love because they won't let him.

DBurrage · May 27, 2020

DrGuyPhD said:

Hey

Thanks for your reply.

I'm unsure why you think I'm a teenager?
I'm 30 years old.

I think we are very much in agreement, and there are a couple of point I'd like to pick up on if that's ok with you?

You said
"God loves not only the saved but the unsaved"
BUT:

Romans 9:13 says that God hated Esau before Esau was even born, because Esau had inherited Adam’s hatred of God.

Psalm 5:5 says “The arrogant cannot stand in Your presence; You hate all who do wrong.” Notice that is it not some abstract “sin” or “wickedness” that God hates in this verse; it is people whom He hates.

Psalm 139:21-22 tells us that we should join God in His holy hatred of these people: “Do I not hate those who hate You, O Lord? I have nothing but hatred for them; I count them my enemies.”

DrGuyPhD · May 27, 2020

DBurrage said:

No, Thank you for your reply!! I rather have productive conversation then watching TV. I meant to say that I am a teenager, i did not mean to assume you were. I am 16 years old going on 17 this year. Sorry about that!! To the points..... In my bible (NLT), Romans says that "In the words of the scriptures, 'I loved Jacob, but I rejected Esau'. Rejection is not hate. We can reject someone from an authoritative position, and still love them at the same time. I believe that Psalms talks about the sin that we hold and that consumes us. It is tricky to interpret, but we get a more coherent and correspondent worldview when he believe that God loves us all instead of some of us. Here, I think that David shows his alignment with God's will. What God loves he loves, and what God hates he hates. But I do not believe that he meant people themselves. Jesus, when he was teaching to the crowd, narrows the laws of Moses down to two. To love your God with all your heart, mind, soul and strength and to love your NEIGHBOR as yourself. God tells us to love others no matter who they are. I believe that God's love for us all is a strong pillar that holds up everything we have today. If it is altered, then our definition of love is revamped, which affects everything.

Blain · May 27, 2020

DrGuyPhD said:

No, Thank you for your reply!! I rather have productive conversation then watching TV. I meant to say that I am a teenager, i did not mean to assume you were. I am 16 years old going on 17 this year. Sorry about that!! To the points..... In my bible (NLT), Romans says that "In the words of the scriptures, 'I loved Jacob, but I rejected Esau'. Rejection is not hate. We can reject someone from an authoritative position, and still love them at the same time. I believe that Psalms talks about the sin that we hold and that consumes us. It is tricky to interpret, but we get a more coherent and correspondent worldview when he believe that God loves us all instead of some of us. Here, I think that David shows his alignment with God's will. What God loves he loves, and what God hates he hates. But I do not believe that he meant people themselves. Jesus, when he was teaching to the crowd, narrows the laws of Moses down to two. To love your God with all your heart, mind, soul and strength and to love your NEIGHBOR as yourself. God tells us to love others no matter who they are. I believe that God's love for us all is a strong pillar that holds up everything we have today. If it is altered, then our definition of love is revamped, which affects everything.

Well hey at least you didn't accidently call him a girl I did this once with someone who was actually a guy the names used to have pink and blue colors XD
You know you are very wise for a teenager yourself and I agree it is much better to have a good conversation than anything else in my opinion

DBurrage · May 27, 2020

@preacher4truth this is the thread I was talking about.
I would be interested to hear your opinion on the original post in this thread.

"God loves everyone" - false

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