God or Guns?
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P
Maybe they were thinking about the fact they had just won a terrible, bloody war against oppression.
Maybe they were remembering the high cost of freedom, and that they knew the propensity of man, and what power does to those who have it. (c-o-r-r-u-p-t-i-o-n)
These were brilliant (European!) men who were extremely well educated, for the most part.
I can never hope to be as well read or educated as Thomas Jefferson, for example. (I think most of us could say that.)
Maybe they knew that, though they had done their level best to provide future generations with a good starting point, we wouldn't be strong enough to hold ourselves to their ideals.
Remember Franklin's famous statement?
"A Republic, if you can keep it."
Maybe they realized that gov't would always, at some point, try to take advantage of the citizenry. Take more power and control than they lawfully should have.
Imagine those men, in the 1700s, had said, "Well, it would be wicked for us to take up arms and fight, Jesus wouldn't want that."
Did the Lord have to deliver those men? Did He have to give them victory?
Of course not. It was highly illogical they won in the first place.
So I'm led to conclude that He wanted this country to be founded, aren't you? (I believe God is sovereign over the affairs of men.)
And given the fact I was born here, and have been blessed with the freedoms other people fought for, I am immensely grateful God did allow the founding of our country.
It's quite easy, I think, to sit back in our comfy freedom and judge what others have done, or are doing. In nations engaged in civil wars, do we not root for the side fighting for their own freedom against illegal oppressive governments?
Don't you kinda hope they win?
War is a dreadful, bloody, horror laden business.
And depending on your eschatology and the belief in timing, you (a general 'you, not specifically Kefa ) may think the Great Tribulation is beginning and taking up arms against it is pointless.
But...what if it isn't?
Don't we 'old timers' want our grandchildren to have the same freedoms we've grown to take for granted?
I really do.
Maybe they were remembering the high cost of freedom, and that they knew the propensity of man, and what power does to those who have it. (c-o-r-r-u-p-t-i-o-n)
These were brilliant (European!) men who were extremely well educated, for the most part.
I can never hope to be as well read or educated as Thomas Jefferson, for example. (I think most of us could say that.)
Maybe they knew that, though they had done their level best to provide future generations with a good starting point, we wouldn't be strong enough to hold ourselves to their ideals.
Remember Franklin's famous statement?
"A Republic, if you can keep it."
Maybe they realized that gov't would always, at some point, try to take advantage of the citizenry. Take more power and control than they lawfully should have.
Imagine those men, in the 1700s, had said, "Well, it would be wicked for us to take up arms and fight, Jesus wouldn't want that."
Did the Lord have to deliver those men? Did He have to give them victory?
Of course not. It was highly illogical they won in the first place.
So I'm led to conclude that He wanted this country to be founded, aren't you? (I believe God is sovereign over the affairs of men.)
And given the fact I was born here, and have been blessed with the freedoms other people fought for, I am immensely grateful God did allow the founding of our country.
It's quite easy, I think, to sit back in our comfy freedom and judge what others have done, or are doing. In nations engaged in civil wars, do we not root for the side fighting for their own freedom against illegal oppressive governments?
Don't you kinda hope they win?
War is a dreadful, bloody, horror laden business.
And depending on your eschatology and the belief in timing, you (a general 'you, not specifically Kefa
) may think the Great Tribulation is beginning and taking up arms against it is pointless.But...what if it isn't?
Don't we 'old timers' want our grandchildren to have the same freedoms we've grown to take for granted?
I really do.
M
Any man who thinks he can be happy free and prosperous by letting the Government take care of him, Better take a closer look at the American Indian and how it worked out for them.
Our Govt. without resistance will drive its own citizens back into the American Indian way of living into the recesses of the land just as they first started out.
And you're right because theyre doing the same thing to us now.
Im glad you finally understand what the govt does.
Sure there were some corrupt men here and there just as with all things, But our founding fathers were for the rights of the people, not the rights of the Govt.
Our Govt. without resistance will drive its own citizens back into the American Indian way of living into the recesses of the land just as they first started out.
And you're right because theyre doing the same thing to us now.
Im glad you finally understand what the govt does.
Sure there were some corrupt men here and there just as with all things, But our founding fathers were for the rights of the people, not the rights of the Govt.
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C
I think Christians should be against evil doers.
If the good Samaritan had been ahead of schedule, and he arrived on the scene at the time that the attack on the traveler started, would he still be a good Samaritan, if he did not use whatever force and whatever weapon necessary to protect the traveler from the thieves?
There were no guns in Jesus day. So, He used a whip on the money changers in the temple.
We as Christians are suppose to love. If we love our children we will do a better job of protecting them from evil doers, that gun them down at school. If we can have an armed police force at nearly every college and university in the US, there's no reason we can't have them in the government schools.
Good question
God bless
If the good Samaritan had been ahead of schedule, and he arrived on the scene at the time that the attack on the traveler started, would he still be a good Samaritan, if he did not use whatever force and whatever weapon necessary to protect the traveler from the thieves?
There were no guns in Jesus day. So, He used a whip on the money changers in the temple.
We as Christians are suppose to love. If we love our children we will do a better job of protecting them from evil doers, that gun them down at school. If we can have an armed police force at nearly every college and university in the US, there's no reason we can't have them in the government schools.
Good question
God bless
P
Absolutely, naturally, of course, and duh!
Of course killing is a last resort.
And we're talking about two different issues here (in this thread)
one being weapons for self-defense (or the defense of someone weaker) against individuals with evil intent
and the other weapons being used for self-defense against governments with evil intent.
I hope no one advocating for the second amendment is planning to just gun down some innocents!
But saying, oh guns are used for murder and therefore must be taken away from people is a bit like saying, oh, human reason is used to plan murder so brains must be taken away from people, IMO.
And if I could hit our gov't with a cast iron fry pan and let the authorities lead them away to prison, that would be nice. lol
(really jk there)
-ellie
Of course killing is a last resort.
And we're talking about two different issues here (in this thread)
one being weapons for self-defense (or the defense of someone weaker) against individuals with evil intent
and the other weapons being used for self-defense against governments with evil intent.
I hope no one advocating for the second amendment is planning to just gun down some innocents!
But saying, oh guns are used for murder and therefore must be taken away from people is a bit like saying, oh, human reason is used to plan murder so brains must be taken away from people, IMO.
And if I could hit our gov't with a cast iron fry pan and let the authorities lead them away to prison, that would be nice. lol
(really jk there)
-ellie
Absolutely, naturally, of course, and duh!
Of course killing is a last resort.
And we're talking about two different issues here (in this thread)
one being weapons for self-defense (or the defense of someone weaker) against individuals with evil intent
and the other weapons being used for self-defense against governments with evil intent.
I hope no one advocating for the second amendment is planning to just gun down some innocents!
But saying, oh guns are used for murder and therefore must be taken away from people is a bit like saying, oh, human reason is used to plan murder so brains must be taken away from people, IMO.
And if I could hit our gov't with a cast iron fry pan and let the authorities lead them away to prison, that would be nice. lol
(really jk there)
-ellie
Of course killing is a last resort.
And we're talking about two different issues here (in this thread)
one being weapons for self-defense (or the defense of someone weaker) against individuals with evil intent
and the other weapons being used for self-defense against governments with evil intent.
I hope no one advocating for the second amendment is planning to just gun down some innocents!
But saying, oh guns are used for murder and therefore must be taken away from people is a bit like saying, oh, human reason is used to plan murder so brains must be taken away from people, IMO.
And if I could hit our gov't with a cast iron fry pan and let the authorities lead them away to prison, that would be nice. lol
(really jk there)
-ellie
The Founding Fathers on the Second Amendment
"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
Co-author of the Second Amendment
during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788
"A militia, when properly formed, are in fact the people themselves …"
Richard Henry Lee
writing in Letters from the Federal Farmer to the Republic, Letter XVIII, May, 1788.
"The people are not to be disarmed of their weapons. They are left in full posession of them."
Zachariah Johnson
Elliot's Debates, vol. 3 "The Debates in the Several State Conventions on the Adoption of the Federal Constitution."
"… the people are confirmed by the next article in their right to keep and bear their private arms"
Philadelphia Federal Gazette
June 18, 1789, Pg. 2, Col. 2
Article on the Bill of Rights
"And that the said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the Press, or the rights of Conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms; …"
Samuel Adams
quoted in the Philadelphia Independent Gazetteer, August 20, 1789, "Propositions submitted to the Convention of this State"
The Founding Fathers on Arms
"Firearms stand next in importance to the constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone under independence … from the hour the Pilgrims landed to the present day, events, occurences and tendencies prove that to ensure peace security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable … the very atmosphere of firearms anywhere restrains evil interference — they deserve a place of honor with all that's good."
George Washington
First President of the United States
"The supposed quietude of a good man allures the ruffian; while on the other hand arms, like laws, discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as property. The same balance would be preserved were all the world destitute of arms, for all would be alike; but since some will not, others dare not lay them aside … Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them."
Thomas Paine
"To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."
Richard Henry Lee
American Statesman, 1788
"The great object is that every man be armed." and "Everyone who is able may have a gun."
Patrick Henry
American Patriot
"Are we at last brought to such humiliating and debasing degradation, that we cannot be trusted with arms for our defense? Where is the difference between having our arms in possession and under our direction and having them under the management of Congress? If our defense be the real object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands?"
Patrick Henry
American Patriot
"Those who hammer their guns into plowshares will plow for those who do not."
Thomas Jefferson
Third President of the United States
"The constitutions of most of our States assert that all power is inherent in the people; that … it is their right and duty to be at all times armed; … "
Thomas Jefferson
letter to Justice John Cartwright, June 5, 1824. ME 16:45.
"The best we can help for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed."
Alexander Hamilton
The Federalist Papers at 184-8
Later Quotes on Gun Control
"The ruling class doesn't care about public safety. Having made it very difficult for States and localities to police themselves, having left ordinary citizens with no choice but to protect themselves as best they can, they now try to take our guns away. In fact they blame us and our guns for crime. This is so wrong that it cannot be an honest mistake."
Malcolm Wallop
former U.S. Sen. (R-WY)
"An armed man is a citizen. A disarmed man is a subject."
Anon.
1Christianwarrior316
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