God TURNED to the gentiles to provoke JEALOUSY

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Rightlydivided

Active member
Dec 26, 2018
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156
43
#1
I’m noticing a strange but consistent pattern....maybe we could have a discussion on this matter.

When God turned to the gentile, to provoke jealousy, was it merely the grafting in? Or was it also the free gift of salvation for ALL? I say both.....that being said, those that take the 4 gospels of Matthew, Luke, Mark and John, and apply it to themselves as though they were the lost sheep, and consider those that follow the gentile message through Paul, as “Pauline emphasizers” ....are they inadvertently becoming jealous of us, as was intended for the Jews?? in which the gospel of the kingdom was preached? They call us easy-believers......is this Jealousy?
 

Dooms

Junior Member
Feb 8, 2018
58
57
18
#2
After the devil was bound by Christ's sacrifice, the gentile nations were then freed from it's claim. Compared to the Jewish nations that the early apostles preached to, I'd imagine that the gentiles were a much easier sale on the concept of salvation.

As far as jealousy goes, Christ sums it up in his message of the laborers. The 12 hour laborer was upset that the new guy only has to labor 1 hour for the same wage. So some of it probably didn't appear to be fair in their understanding, but it should be accepted on Faith.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
27,662
1,911
113
#3
I’m noticing a strange but consistent pattern....maybe we could have a discussion on this matter.

When God turned to the gentile, to provoke jealousy, was it merely the grafting in? Or was it also the free gift of salvation for ALL? I say both.....that being said, those that take the 4 gospels of Matthew, Luke, Mark and John, and apply it to themselves as though they were the lost sheep, and consider those that follow the gentile message through Paul, as “Pauline emphasizers” ....are they inadvertently becoming jealous of us, as was intended for the Jews?? in which the gospel of the kingdom was preached? They call us easy-believers......is this Jealousy?
Now I am speaking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry in order somehow to make my fellow Jews jealous, and thus save some of them.
(Rom 11:13-14)

It looks as when Gentiles come to saving faith in the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, it will provoke those who were the original targets (the Jews) to jealousy that they too will find Him.

No, Gentiles are not the lost sheep of Israel...unless they are from the lineage of Jacob...but then they wouldn't be Gentiles, would they?

Why should Gentiles who have the Gospel and know Jesus be jealous of other Gentiles???

Believing (faith) is not easy as it may cost you your life (this life).
 

Rightlydivided

Active member
Dec 26, 2018
437
156
43
#4
Now I am speaking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry in order somehow to make my fellow Jews jealous, and thus save some of them.
(Rom 11:13-14)

It looks as when Gentiles come to saving faith in the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, it will provoke those who were the original targets (the Jews) to jealousy that they too will find Him.

No, Gentiles are not the lost sheep of Israel...unless they are from the lineage of Jacob...but then they wouldn't be Gentiles, would they?

Why should Gentiles who have the Gospel and know Jesus be jealous of other Gentiles???

Believing (faith) is not easy as it may cost you your life (this life).
Those gentiles that have adopted the message to the lost sheep of Israel unto themselves, before the cross.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
9,665
1,978
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#6
Except that is not what the text is referring to.
John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

John 10:27-28
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Are you sure Cross? Who is Spiritual Israel?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
24,689
6,366
113
#7
Those gentiles that have adopted the message to the lost sheep of Israel unto themselves, before the cross.
do you mean proselyte Jews?
Gentiles that converted to Mosaic Judaism before Christ came to be born? is that who you're calling '
those grafted in' ?

well, there were non-ethnic-Jews in the Exodus, the 'mixed multitude' - and as early as Deuteronomy 32:21 God declared that He would make he children of Israel jealous by a people who is not a people. so you have 'grafting in' by this definition ((if i'm comprehending you right)) from the beginning, at Sinai, and the statement about making the Jews jealous in the very same generation in the wilderness.

i'm unsure that's the correct definition. when i read the OP, i thought, wait what's the difference between being grafted in and salvation being offered to the gentile?
 

TM19782017

Active member
Dec 15, 2018
238
145
43
#8
I think the major life lesson that could be gained from this is:

We all for short of the glory of God, Everyone......Priests, Rabbis, Presidents, etc...... Those who choose to raise themselves to a position of height that is above the common man, is in danger of not seeing the truth. We are ALL God's children. Anyone that holds jealousy in their heart will always have something road blocking their peace.

There is a very good quote I learned a while back and it makes very good sense.

"Those at war with others, are not at peace with themselves."

It should mean absolutely nothing to anyone else that someone has any more things than you... True love and peace are not for sale and knowing that is what keeps me grounded.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
27,662
1,911
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#9
John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.?

John 10:27-28
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
I seem to fail to see any connection with ...

Now I am speaking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry in order somehow to make my fellow Jews jealous, and thus save some of them.
(Rom 11:13-14)

at least that was what RightlyDivided quoted from my post.

Are you sure Cross? Who is Spiritual Israel?
Spiritual Israel? Where in Scripture do you find that term??
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
27,662
1,911
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#10
We are ALL God's children.
Pardon me, but this saying needs a little bit of clarification.

Are you saying
A. all those who are born again are God's children?
B. All mankind are God's children?
or
C. All those participating on this Forum are God's children?

My answer would only be A.
 

obedienttogod

Well-known member
Jan 3, 2019
1,012
342
83
#11
Matthew 28:19, Jesus commands His Disciples to teach all the nations (Jew/Gentile) what He taught the Disciples.

Obviously, even though Jesus dealt directly with the Jews during His time on earth, His overall intention was for everyone to become part of the Bride. This would clearly reveal Jesus was not trying to make the Jews jealous. He was trying to save the entire world who would accept Him and become a part of Him!!
 

TM19782017

Active member
Dec 15, 2018
238
145
43
#12
Pardon me, but this saying needs a little bit of clarification.

Are you saying
A. all those who are born again are God's children?
B. All mankind are God's children?
or
C. All those participating on this Forum are God's children?

My answer would only be A.
B. I believe we all our God's children......Do you not believe this?
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
16,074
3,004
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#13
It is written of Israel, I will make you jealous of a people who are not a nation….

It is a good meditation……...
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
27,603
6,087
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#14
B. I believe we all our God's children......Do you not believe this?
He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. But to all who did receive Him, to those who believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God— children born not of blood, nor of the desire or will of man, but born of God. 1 John 11-13
 

TM19782017

Active member
Dec 15, 2018
238
145
43
#15
He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. But to all who did receive Him, to those who believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God— children born not of blood, nor of the desire or will of man, but born of God. 1 John 11-13
How do you interpret Jesus saying, "Forgive them Father, They know not what they do"?
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
27,603
6,087
113
#16
How do you interpret Jesus saying, "Forgive them Father, They know not what they do"?
How do you interpret Jesus calling certain people children of the devil?

Matthew 13:38
and the field is the world; and as for the good seed, these are the
sons of the kingdom; and the tares are the sons of the evil one;


John 8:44
"You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your
father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in
the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie,
he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies."


John 6:70
Jesus answered them, "Did I Myself not choose you,
the twelve, and yet one of you is a devil?"


1 John 3:10
By this the children of God and the children of the devil are
obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is
not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.


Acts 13:10
and said, "You who are full of all deceit and fraud, you son
of the devil, you enemy of all righteousness, will you not
cease to make crooked the straight ways of the Lord?"
 

TM19782017

Active member
Dec 15, 2018
238
145
43
#17
How do you interpret Jesus calling certain people children of the devil?

Matthew 13:38
and the field is the world; and as for the good seed, these are the
sons of the kingdom; and the tares are the sons of the evil one;


John 8:44
"You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your
father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in
the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie,
he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies."


John 6:70
Jesus answered them, "Did I Myself not choose you,
the twelve, and yet one of you is a devil?"


1 John 3:10
By this the children of God and the children of the devil are
obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is
not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.


Acts 13:10
and said, "You who are full of all deceit and fraud, you son
of the devil, you enemy of all righteousness, will you not
cease to make crooked the straight ways of the Lord?"

I absolutely agree with you that some children KNOWINGLY oppose God's will and those are seen as evil at "that time" but do you honestly believe that because one makes poor choices that they have no way back? Most who do wrong are referred to as fools.... People who go to jail can even about face and repent....The only unforgivable sin is the rejection of the holy spirit.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
9,665
1,978
113
#18
I seem to fail to see any connection with ...

Now I am speaking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry in order somehow to make my fellow Jews jealous, and thus save some of them.
(Rom 11:13-14)

at least that was what RightlyDivided quoted from my post.



Spiritual Israel? Where in Scripture do you find that term??
Romans 9:6-8
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Galatians 3:28-29
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

It doesn't expressly say "Spiritual Israel" but I think the concept of Spiritual Israel is plainly stated.
 
Mar 14, 2011
63,947
10,315
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#19
I think we need to remember, jesus was sent to israel, and even he said when he sent the disciles out, Irael was first, then sameria, then the rest of the world,

So when jesus said he was sent to the lost sheep, he was, he would send the chur h to the gentios whichhe did with peter to gentioes in jerusalem, and paul
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
27,662
1,911
113
#20
B. I believe we all our God's children......Do you not believe this?
No. We are all God's creation, true,but only those who are born again are His Children by the new birth.
Are you born again?