God TURNED to the gentiles to provoke JEALOUSY

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
27,658
1,908
113
#21
Romans 9:6-8
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Galatians 3:28-29
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

It doesn't expressly say "Spiritual Israel" but I think the concept of Spiritual Israel is plainly stated.
Romans is referring to the Jews by natural birth but without true faith.

Galatians is simply stating that we, as believing Gentiles, are children of the promise...

Genesis 17:4 NKJV
[4] "As for Me, behold, My covenant is with you, and you shall be a father of many nations.

Romans 4:17 NKJV
[17] (as it is written, "I have made you a father of many nations") in the presence of Him whom he believed-God, who gives life to the dead and calls those things which do not exist as though they did;
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
11,475
1,001
113
#22
I’m noticing a strange but consistent pattern....maybe we could have a discussion on this matter.

When God turned to the gentile, to provoke jealousy, was it merely the grafting in? Or was it also the free gift of salvation for ALL? I say both.....that being said, those that take the 4 gospels of Matthew, Luke, Mark and John, and apply it to themselves as though they were the lost sheep, and consider those that follow the gentile message through Paul, as “Pauline emphasizers” ....are they inadvertently becoming jealous of us, as was intended for the Jews?? in which the gospel of the kingdom was preached? They call us easy-believers......is this Jealousy?
One thing is we know is one of God's name is Jealous. He alone owns all things. But his love is not jealous .

His provoking them to jealousy is not the fruit of the gospel . I think it could be like tongues, God using it to mock those who mock him who refused to hear prophecy but rather sought after the oral traditions of men .

As for the word that thou hast spoken unto us in the name of the Lord, we will not hearken unto thee.
But we will certainly do whatsoever thing goeth forth out of our own mouth, to burn incense unto the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, as we have done, we, and our fathers, our kings, and our princes, in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem: for then had we plenty of victuals, and were well, and saw no evil Jerimiah 44:16 -17

The unbelieving Jew became jealous of the surrounding pagan nations who did walk by sight as if the Kingdom of God did come by observation and demanded God give them a king after the temporal things seen the flesh. He informed Samuel that it was not Samuel they were rejecting as King of kings but God himself. He gave them over to do that which they should not of .This was until the time of reformation, the times of the gentiles. Restoring the government to the period of Judges .

Can God use that to turn the unbelieving Jew to be moved to be born again. I would think so it is the gospel that turns every believer.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
4,057
1,578
113
#23
Well the gentiles werent given the covenant and law of Moses and yet we can enter the Kingdom by grace through faith, without doing any of the works of the law.

So I guess that could make the jews a bit jealous because they tried to keep all the laws, and yet none of them could enter unless their lawkeeping was mixed with faith.

There are still Jews today who call people 'righteous gentiles' its kind of like when people say 'lady doctor' they cant quite believe that gentiles can be righteous too, just like some people cant believe females can enter the medical profession and be doctors (not just nurses) .
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
16,061
2,985
113
#24
Obeying the laws is not works, it is our due. I say the law as taught and expounded upon by our Savior, not 611-13 laws that are out-of-use.

You will know which laws when your heart bears witness that they are construct elements of love.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
9,664
1,978
113
#25
Romans is referring to the Jews by natural birth but without true faith.

Galatians is simply stating that we, as believing Gentiles, are children of the promise...

Genesis 17:4 NKJV
[4] "As for Me, behold, My covenant is with you, and you shall be a father of many nations.

Romans 4:17 NKJV
[17] (as it is written, "I have made you a father of many nations") in the presence of Him whom he believed-God, who gives life to the dead and calls those things which do not exist as though they did;
John 10:27-28
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

So if there is no Spiritual Israel, and Christians obviously aren't the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel, then these Scriptures are not to Christians?

Believing Gentiles have a different Promise than believing Israel?
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
11,475
1,001
113
#26
Well the gentiles werent given the covenant and law of Moses and yet we can enter the Kingdom by grace through faith, without doing any of the works of the law.

So I guess that could make the jews a bit jealous because they tried to keep all the laws, and yet none of them could enter unless their lawkeeping was mixed with faith.

There are still Jews today who call people 'righteous gentiles' its kind of like when people say 'lady doctor' they cant quite believe that gentiles can be righteous too, just like some people cant believe females can enter the medical profession and be doctors (not just nurses) .
Its not a Jewish religion or after the flesh of any nation. Gentiles have always been able to enter in my the hearing of faith. Abraham's father was a Amorite and mother a Hittie .

Ezekiel 16:3And say, Thus saith the Lord God unto Jerusalem; Thy birth and thy nativity is of the land of Canaan; thy father was an Amorite, and thy mother an Hittite.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
4,057
1,578
113
#27
Its not a Jewish religion or after the flesh of any nation. Gentiles have always been able to enter in my the hearing of faith. Abraham's father was a Amorite and mother a Hittie .

Ezekiel 16:3And say, Thus saith the Lord God unto Jerusalem; Thy birth and thy nativity is of the land of Canaan; thy father was an Amorite, and thy mother an Hittite.
Yes but biblical history shows that judaism came about because Judah felt they had exclusive claim to the Kingdom, after all it was prophesised the sceptre wouldnt depart from them. So they kinda assumed it would only be for them exclusively, never mind the rest of Israel, let alone gentiles.

This is why unbelieivng Jews were so hard on Jesus. The kingdom had split. Becuase Jesus wanted to bring all of Israel into one kingdom. And they had doubts that Jesus was jewish, but he was through Josephs lineage.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
11,475
1,001
113
#28
John 10:27-28
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

So if there is no Spiritual Israel, and Christians obviously aren't the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel, then these Scriptures are not to Christians?

Believing Gentiles have a different Promise than believing Israel?
Same bride of Christ. What's the difference?
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
11,475
1,001
113
#29
Yes but biblical history shows that judaism came about because Judah felt they had exclusive claim to the Kingdom, after all it was prophesised the sceptre wouldnt depart from them. So they kinda assumed it would only be for them exclusively, never mind the rest of Israel, let alone gentiles.

This is why unbelieivng Jews were so hard on Jesus. The kingdom had split. Becuase Jesus wanted to bring all of Israel into one kingdom. And they had doubts that Jesus was jewish, but he was through Josephs lineage.

I would agree the sceptre would never depart from Christ as the son of man from the tribe of Judah, after the new manner of Melchezedek.
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
5,928
675
113
#31
I’m noticing a strange but consistent pattern....maybe we could have a discussion on this matter.

When God turned to the gentile, to provoke jealousy, was it merely the grafting in? Or was it also the free gift of salvation for ALL? I say both.....that being said, those that take the 4 gospels of Matthew, Luke, Mark and John, and apply it to themselves as though they were the lost sheep, and consider those that follow the gentile message through Paul, as “Pauline emphasizers” ....are they inadvertently becoming jealous of us, as was intended for the Jews?? in which the gospel of the kingdom was preached? They call us easy-believers......is this Jealousy?
What?
 

obedienttogod

Well-known member
Jan 3, 2019
1,012
342
83
#32
GraceandTruth,

I am very interested in how you view this specific verse (Matthew 28:19) to find it means Yeshua is trying to make the Jews jealous. Here is the portion of this verse and what I had copied/pasted from my original post:

Matthew 28:19, Jesus commands His Disciples to teach all the nations (Jew/Gentile) what He taught the Disciples.

Obviously, even though Jesus dealt directly with the Jews during His time on earth, His overall intention was for everyone to become part of the Bride. This would clearly reveal Jesus was not trying to make the Jews jealous. He was trying to save the entire world who would accept Him and become a part of Him!!
For the life of me, nowhere do I see any signs of teach all nations (which we know and understand that ALL NATIONS is a reference to both the Jew and the Gentile) what Yeshua had taught His Disciples (which actually comes from the following verse :20) is some how related by doing this you will make the Jews jealous..

So please, I beg of you to enlighten me on this specific verse I originally posted, and how it actually means that Yeshua is instructing His Disciples by teaching ALL NATIONS it is intended to mean for the purpose of creating jealousy??
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
27,658
1,908
113
#33
John 10:27-28
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

So if there is no Spiritual Israel, and Christians obviously aren't the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel, then these Scriptures are not to Christians?
First, the only time "the lost sheep of the house of Israel" is mentioned, it is by Jesus (twice) and in an exclusive way...

These twelve Jesus sent out, instructing them, “Go nowhere among the Gentiles and enter no town of the Samaritans, but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. (Mat 10:5-6)

He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” (Mat 15:24)

I believe the saved Gentiles are included in John 10:27-28, but Jesus is not referring to the 'lost house of Israel' or 'spiritual Israel' in that passage.

Believing Gentiles have a different Promise than believing Israel?
The same promise and means of salvation applies to both Jew and Gentile, but personally I believe the Land promise still holds for the Jew but not Gentiles. The Gentiles are partakers of the spiritual blessings of the Covenants.
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
1,370
177
63
#34
God loves all of mankind and that includes the gentiles. The Israelite's failed, in many ways, so God turned to the Gentiles. It was always part of Gods plan to take the Gospel to the whole world. After Christ had come (prophesy was fulfilled) there was no need for God to continue saving them over and over again.

Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
Rom 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
Rom 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
1,370
177
63
#35
We are all part of the same olive tree, by faith we are all grafted in and we all get life from the same roots. Spiritually joined to Jesus by faith. "for God is able to graft them (Jews) in again."
 

TM19782017

Active member
Dec 15, 2018
238
145
43
#36
B. I believe we all our God's children......Do you not believe this?
Hmmm, why do you see it this way?

DO you not believe that even the worst of worst criminals and murderers regardless or race, religion or age, can be the most evil human on earth but, by repenting and sincerely seeking forgiveness, they can become a child of God?

Do you not believe that someone who has been down to such a world that 99% of the population cannot even fathom, can still have a valuable purpose and valuable path for them?
If they truly repented, they have the ability to possibly help a younger one avoid the dead end life...A mentor. No?
They have the ability to steer others in a better way...Without their story of why, many others will foolishly follow.