God, what's Water Baptism for?

[pottersclay]

Jesus is never seen water baptising anyone. It seems to be John's ministry hence "John the Baptist".
Yet Jesus deems it important to be baptised.
Jesus picks up John's ministry of repentance but never is seen baptising. Jesus himself said it was necessary.
John came in the spirit of Elijah restoring relationships.

 

[pottersclay]

From what I have read any covenant that was made was made from God to man or God to nation.
Have I missed something?
I don't want to derail this thread nor do I disagree with the findings but until the questions I have asked are clarified I cannot embrace the findings.

 

[Moses_Young]

Do NOT use human reasoning to decide the validity of Water Baptism........human reasoning CANNOT understand the Mind, Heart, Plan and Purposes of God.....

So, how are we to understand? We have to have ears to hear what the Holy Spirit is saying.

In humility, just simply ask God questions and the Holy Spirit will give us understanding.....

Here's how my conversation with God went.......

Me: So, Lord, please may the Holy Spirit help us to understand what Water Baptism is for........

God: What was circumcision for?

Me: A sign of covenant.

God: Could circumcision save anyone?

Me: No.

It saved Moses. Or God let Moses go because of Zipporah's circumcision. It wasn't that circumcision saved, but that uncircumcision was a result disobedience and disbelief. Is lack of water baptism a result of disobedience and disbelief?

Exodus 4:24 - 26 And it came to pass by the way in the inn, that the LORD met him, and sought to kill him. Then Zipporah took a sharp stone, and cut off the foreskin of her son, and cast it at his feet, and said, Surely a bloody husband art thou to me. So he let him go: then she said, A bloody husband thou art, because of the circumcision.

 

[garee]

Do NOT use human reasoning to decide the validity of Water Baptism........human reasoning CANNOT understand the Mind, Heart, Plan and Purposes of God.....

So, how are we to understand? We have to have ears to hear what the Holy Spirit is saying.

In humility, just simply ask God questions and the Holy Spirit will give us understanding.....

Here's how my conversation with God went.......

Me: So, Lord, please may the Holy Spirit help us to understand what Water Baptism is for........

God: What was circumcision for?

Me: A sign of covenant.

God: Could circumcision save anyone?

Me: No.

God: The same is true with Water Baptism - it's a sign of covenant but, it cannot save you.

Me: Lord, please tell me how is Water Baptism a sign of covenant?

God: Water Baptism is to be done in the presence of witnesses that you and I are entering into covenant. I promise to save you with My Son - Jesus Christ with His Blood and Body and I also promise to give you the Holy Spirit that raised Him from the dead; in return you promise to submit to My Will - the Father's Will and believe on the ONLY Savior I have given you, My Son - My Lamb and receive the gift of My Holy Spirit.

In Water Baptism, the person believes and confesses My Son - Jesus Christ as Lord, Savior and King. They are placed in My Hands ("into Your Hands, Father I commit my Spirit..."). A sign of total submission to God The Father. In My Hands the person is totally submerged under the water as a sign of being buried with My Son and when the person comes up out of the water, they are raised to new life by the power of God The Holy Spirit - the same Spirit that raised My Son from the dead.

Water Baptism is the sign of the New Covenant God The Father, God The Son, and God The Holy Spirit has made with Man. Man is to be ONE with God in the Kingdom of Heaven that is coming.

Me: Thank You, for giving us understanding. Truly, we know NOTHING unless You, by Your Holy Spirit give us understanding. Thank You, Father.

Whoever has an ear to hear, let him hear what the Spirit is saying......amen.

I would offer..

Water like blood are used together to represent the unseen work of the Holy Spirit who works with us in us to both will and do His good pleasure. Sign of the first born. Born again believers . Jesus the first of many brothers and sisters (mankind)

I think of two parables. One using David who was in prison like John the Baptist having doubt thirsting for the righteousness of faith, cried for someone? The water of the gospel from the well of living water near the gate of Bethlehem. . Bethlehem. meaning the city of bread .

The father working in three mighty men as apostles sent the three (three establishing the end of the matter) A picture of the gospel doing it work putting ones own life in jeopardy to do the will of the unseen father

Without parables Christ, unseen, spoke not.

At that time David was in the stronghold, and the Philistine garrison was at Bethlehem. David longed for water and said, “Oh, that someone would get me a drink of water from the well near the gate of Bethlehem!” So the Three broke through the Philistine lines, drew water from the well near the gate of Bethlehem and carried it back to David. But he refused to drink it; instead, he poured it out to the Lord. “God forbid that I should do this!” he said. “Should I drink the blood of these men who went at the risk of their lives?” Because they risked their lives to bring it back, David would not drink it. 1 Chronicles 11: 16-19

David by faith looked ahead by faith to the work of the cross giving honor to His father .

The other parable again looking to the first born. It occurred when Moses refused to circumcise the first born using Gershom to represent the Son of Man Jesus . (NIV bridegroom of blood ) (King James bloody husband )

Again using blood or water as a metaphor of the unseen work of the Spirit .

‘This is what the Lord says: Israel is my firstborn son, and I told you, “Let my son go, so he may worship me.” But you refused to let him go; so I will kill your firstborn son.’”At a lodging place on the way, the Lord met Moses and was about to kill him. But Zipporah took a flint knife, cut off her son’s foreskin and touched Moses’ feet with it. “Surely you are a bridegroom of blood to me,” she said. So the Lord let him alone. At that time she said “bridegroom of blood,” referring to circumcision. Exodus 4: 23 -26

The gospel of grace in respect to our bloody huand sufering before had giving the a living hope /Like ours that loks back the rent veil. It as a metaphor represented the foreskin of our savoir and Lord.

I think a person could say those saints believed God after hearing the good news giving them a vision looking ahead we look back to that demonstration .Receiving the end rom the very beginning. Knowing if he begun the good work of salvation in us he will finish it. He is our confidence .We put no confidence in the things seen, the temporal. We rather walk by faith or mixing the two .

Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. 1 Peter 1:9-11

I would think a Beautiful picture of the working of the gospel.

 

[Lafftur]

I would offer..

Water like blood are used together to represent the unseen work of the Holy Spirit who works with us in us to both will and do His good pleasure. Sign of the first born. Born again believers . Jesus the first of many brothers and sisters (mankind)

I think of two parables. One using David who was in prison like John the Baptist having doubt thirsting for the righteousness of faith, cried for someone? The water of the gospel from the well of living water near the gate of Bethlehem. . Bethlehem. meaning the city of bread .

The father working in three mighty men as apostles sent the three (three establishing the end of the matter) A picture of the gospel doing it work putting ones own life in jeopardy to do the will of the unseen father

Without parables Christ, unseen, spoke not.

At that time David was in the stronghold, and the Philistine garrison was at Bethlehem. David longed for water and said, “Oh, that someone would get me a drink of water from the well near the gate of Bethlehem!” So the Three broke through the Philistine lines, drew water from the well near the gate of Bethlehem and carried it back to David. But he refused to drink it; instead, he poured it out to the Lord. “God forbid that I should do this!” he said. “Should I drink the blood of these men who went at the risk of their lives?” Because they risked their lives to bring it back, David would not drink it. 1 Chronicles 11: 16-19

David by faith looked ahead by faith to the work of the cross giving honor to His father .

The other parable again looking to the first born. It occurred when Moses refused to circumcise the first born using Gershom to represent the Son of Man Jesus . (NIV bridegroom of blood ) (King James bloody husband )

Again using blood or water as a metaphor of the unseen work of the Spirit .

‘This is what the Lord says: Israel is my firstborn son, and I told you, “Let my son go, so he may worship me.” But you refused to let him go; so I will kill your firstborn son.’”At a lodging place on the way, the Lord met Moses and was about to kill him. But Zipporah took a flint knife, cut off her son’s foreskin and touched Moses’ feet with it. “Surely you are a bridegroom of blood to me,” she said. So the Lord let him alone. At that time she said “bridegroom of blood,” referring to circumcision. Exodus 4: 23 -26

The gospel of grace in respect to our bloody huand sufering before had giving the a living hope /Like ours that loks back the rent veil. It as a metaphor represented the foreskin of our savoir and Lord.

I think a person could say those saints believed God after hearing the good news giving them a vision looking ahead we look back to that demonstration .Receiving the end rom the very beginning. Knowing if he begun the good work of salvation in us he will finish it. He is our confidence .We put no confidence in the things seen, the temporal. We rather walk by faith or mixing the two .

Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. 1 Peter 1:9-11

I would think a Beautiful picture of the working of the gospel.

Wrong, you’re twisting and interpreting scripture with your human reasoning.

 

[Dino246]

Water like blood are used together

Water is singular. Adding "like blood" does not make it plural. If you wanted to make it plural, you would say, "and blood".

 

[Lafftur]

It's a proclamation (in a similar way that taking the bread & wine is), to show that the Believer's old life is now dead and they are raised to a new life in Christ (born again).

Well, I'm not sure if "proclamation" is the right word because it's more like a formal verbal announcement. In Water Baptism, the believer is actually doing an action to represent the entering into covenant with God (Father, Son and Holy Spirit).

Matthew 28:19-20 New International Version (NIV)
19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

 

[Lafftur]

Having a hard time seeing the water baptism as a covenant.
John baptised Jesus, he also baptised people before Jesus.
How could one enter in to a covenant without knowing Christ?
John said clearly he needed to be baptised of Jesus, but Jesus replied suffer it to be so now.

Just having a hard time understanding this. Would some one explain?

Well, of course, the Holy Spirit is the BEST one to explain ANYTHING to us! Just ask Him.

Water Baptism is NOT covenant, it is a SIGN of covenant.....like circumcision is not covenant - just a sign of covenant.

 

[dcontroversal]

Our public testimony of faith into the death, burial and resurrection of Christ, the first act of obedience, a picture a painting that we are dead with Christ, buried with Christ and resurrected with Christ. It identifies us publically with Christ.

 

[Lafftur]

The water baptism was for remission of sins..... repentance was the focus.....or am I wrong?

You are correct. John the Baptist said that he baptized with water for the remission of sins to prepare the hearts of the people to receive the Messiah.

 

[Lafftur]

The Blood is for remission of sins🤔

Blood is not for "remission" of sins. The Blood of the Lamb of God - Jesus Christ COMPLETELY takes ALL sins away - never to be seen again......completely gone!

I understand "remission" as being temporary.

 

[Lafftur]

Water baptism was to prepare Israel to accept their coming Messiah (Luke 3:4-6)

Its not a covenant.

I NEVER said Water Baptism was a covenant. I said Water Baptism is a SIGN of the New Covenant IN CHRIST.

 

[Lafftur]

From what I have read any covenant that was made was made from God to man or God to nation.
Have I missed something?
I don't want to derail this thread nor do I disagree with the findings but until the questions I have asked are clarified I cannot embrace the findings.

Below, dc has given a good understanding of Water Baptism.

Our public testimony of faith into the death, burial and resurrection of Christ, the first act of obedience, a picture a painting that we are dead with Christ, buried with Christ and resurrected with Christ. It identifies us publically with Christ.

@pottersclay - I do understand that the confusing part is that John the Baptist was water baptizing people BEFORE Jesus Christ appeared publicly. Because of that, how can Water Baptism be a sign of the New Covenant we have IN CHRIST?

Well, John the Baptist wasn't too concerned about followers of Christ baptizing people and Jesus wasn't too concerned about followers of John the Baptist water baptizing people - it only bothered a certain Jew:

John 3:23-27 New International Version (NIV)
23 Now John also was baptizing at Aenon near Salim, because there was plenty of water, and people were coming and being baptized. 24 (This was before John was put in prison.) 25 An argument developed between some of John’s disciples and a certain Jew over the matter of ceremonial washing. 26 They came to John and said to him, “Rabbi, that man who was with you on the other side of the Jordan—the one you testified about—look, he is baptizing, and everyone is going to him.”

27 To this John replied, “A person can receive only what is given them from heaven.

However, AFTER Jesus' resurrection He told His disciples to........

Matthew 28:19-20 New International Version (NIV)
19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

Now, Water Baptism has become the SIGN of the New Covenant IN CHRIST - a SIGN that God and Man have entered into a Promised Agreement. Just like Circumcision was the SIGN of the covenant between God and Abraham.

Colossians 2:9-13 New International Version (NIV)
9 For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, 10 and in Christ you have been brought to fullness. He is the head over every power and authority. 11 In him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not performed by human hands. Your whole self ruled by the flesh[a] was put off when you were circumcised by[b] Christ, 12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead.

13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you[c] alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins,

 

[Lafftur]

God even put a His rainbow in the sky as a SIGN of His promise to Noah......

Genesis 9:13 New International Version (NIV)
13 I have set my rainbow in the clouds, and it will be the sign of the covenant between me and the earth.

 

[Butterflyyy]

Well, I'm not sure if "proclamation" is the right word because it's more like a formal verbal announcement. In Water Baptism, the believer is actually doing an action to represent the entering into covenant with God (Father, Son and Holy Spirit).

Matthew 28:19-20 New International Version (NIV)
19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

Hi Laftur

The bread and wine is also doing an action which represents a covenant, I think even moreso in fact, because of the Blood 🤔

 

[Lafftur]

Hi Laftur

The bread and wine is also doing an action which represents a covenant, I think even moreso in fact, because of the Blood 🤔

Yes, I agree that the bread and the wine can also be a sign of the new covenant.......

Luke 22:20 New International Version (NIV)
20 In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.[a]

Excellent point, @Butterflyyy!

 

[Corban]

Yes, there a number of churches who use this to urge their members to put themselves under the Great commission, because they use this verse to teach that Jesus won't come back until "all the world" is reached.

Are you saying the same thing?

Perhaps you could address my answer. You maintained that the Kingdom was only for Israel. My answer showed otherwise. It is now up to you to back your claim. Thanks brother.

 

[Guojing]

Perhaps you could address my answer. You maintained that the Kingdom was only for Israel. My answer showed otherwise. It is now up to you to back your claim. Thanks brother.

As I have stated to CS1, there is a difference between Kingdom of Heaven and Kingdom of God.

The former refers to the reign of Jesus on earth, a physical reality, a reality that was prophesied in the OT for Israel. That was not possible during the time of the 4 Gospels because Israel rejected their Messiah.

But as Paul explained in Romans 11, there comes a time in the future where all Israel will accept Jesus as their Messiah. That is where it will start.

But the Kingdom of God is about people being saved and received the Holy Spirit, which was only possible after Jesus died and rose from the dead. This is spiritual, with joy peace, all the fruit of the Holy Spirit described by Paul.

Paul also talk about this Kingdom of God when he preached to both Jews and Gentiles. He never offered the physical reign of Jesus on Earth at anytime.

 

[Guojing]

I NEVER said Water Baptism was a covenant. I said Water Baptism is a SIGN of the New Covenant IN CHRIST.

I was answering the other person, potter, who asked, chill.

 

[MattforJesus]

The Gospel is the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus.

How can you cut out the middle man for water baptism is part of the salvation plan of God.

Jesus said you must be born of water and the Spirit to enter heaven.

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection.

Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Rom 6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him.

1Pe 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
1Pe 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

The man Christ Jesus died, was buried, and rose again, and then went to heaven and has a glorified body.

We have to identify with the man Christ Jesus by repenting, being water baptized, and receiving the Spirit.

Water Baptism is part of salvation for it is part of the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ, the Gospel.